Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 November 4

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Drafts about actors to :Category:Draft articles about actors

:Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category covering the same scope, with some overlap between the two. The more preferred target is in line with the naming of the parent cat, :Category:Draft articles on biographies. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge, definitely redundant; I'm not 100% sure regarding preferred target, but I don't think it matters, so per nom is fine. (Background why I'm not 100% sure regarding target: While nom's target is in line with its parent :Category:Draft articles on biographies, the parent cat of :Category:Draft articles on biographies is named :Category:Drafts about people and 3/5 cats therein follow the form "Drafts about...", and in :Category:Draft articles on biographies, there are at least a few others named "Drafts about...". Over all cats (so, not just bios or people), "Draft articles..." has the slight quantity advantage over "Drafts about..." ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Draft+articles+about%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns14=1 55] vs. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Drafts+about%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns14=1 41]); within :Category:Drafts about people the difference is even more pronounced ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Draft+articles+about%22+deepcat%3A%22Drafts+about+people%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22deepcategory%22%3A%5B%22Drafts+about+people%22%5D%7D%7D&ns14=1 44] vs. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Drafts+about%22+deepcat%3A%22Drafts+about+people%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22deepcategory%22%3A%5B%22Drafts+about+people%22%5D%7D%7D&ns14=1 13]), but in its subcat :Category:Draft articles on biographies it's again slightly more balanced ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Draft+articles+about%22+deepcat%3A%22Draft+articles+on+biographies%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22deepcategory%22%3A%5B%22Draft+articles+on+biographies%22%5D%7D%7D&ns14=1 35] vs. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Drafts+about%22+deepcat%3A%22Draft+articles+on+biographies%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22deepcategory%22%3A%5B%22Draft+articles+on+biographies%22%5D%7D%7D&ns14=1 10]).) Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 22:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Subtemplates of Template Convinfobox}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category does not have any sub-templates as the template was converted into Lua. Gonnym (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, basically an empty category. Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. I have added the member template into a non-hidden category, {{c|Numerical conversion templates}}. – Fayenatic London 11:58, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Scotland men's youth international footballers. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Scotland men's under-17 international footballers}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not sure exactly where and when it was agreed, but convention is that youth levels below u21 are not worthwhile to have, and should instead all be counted under 'youth' (no need to merge as all the players are in that category too - only 5 memebers, so not much effort to populate it either to be honest). A parent was created alongside this, :Category:Association football players by under-17 national team, which only contains this Scotland group, but the absence of any others does not appear to have deterred the creator. Crowsus (talk) 20:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• {{ping|GiantSnowman}} this is for you to comment on, I guess. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 18:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge and delete - Crowsus is correct, we do not have individual categories for the younger youth teams, just the top-level one (U20 or U21, depending on confederation), and also U23 (which is Olympic level). Instead, we group them all into generic 'youth' categories - so this should be merged into {{cat|Scotland men's youth international footballers}} and then deleted. GiantSnowman 18:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Anagennisi Dherynia}}

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Anagennisi Deryneia FC}}, which is already in {{cat|Football clubs in Cyprus}}. {{-r|Anagennisi Deryneia}} is a redirect to Anagennisi Deryneia FC. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 19:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 19:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Amusement rides based on works by writer. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Amusement rides based on works by Canadian writers to :Category:Amusement rides based on works by writer

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Amusement rides based on works by James Cameron}}, which is already in {{cat|Adaptations of works by Canadian writers}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic London 12:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Amphibian organizations to :Category:Herpetology organizations

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Amphibian conservation organizations}}, which is already in the appropriate subcategories of {{c|Animal organizations}} and {{c|Amphibians}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to all parents. – Fayenatic London 12:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Restaurants in Buckinghamshire to :Category:Restaurants in England

:Nominator's rationale: Also merge to :Category:Buildings and structures in Buckinghamshire and :Category:Tourist attractions in Buckinghamshire

Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. Better categorised within the parents. AusLondonder (talk) 17:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Triple merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Buddhist caves in India to :Category:Buddhist cave temples in India

:Nominator's rationale: This should be renamed to differentiate this group from naturally forming caves, and all of the current category member fall into the narrowed category. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 15:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

::Weak oppose{{snd}}I don't see a reason why India in particular should be inconsistent with the rest of the {{cat|Buddhist caves}} tree. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Withdrawn per above.. How would I submit a bundled request?

:::Kingsmasher678 (talk) 04:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

::* {{ping|Kingsmasher678}} after this discussion is closed you can renominate this category with Twinkle, and then add the subcategories manually in the nomination, and tag the pages of the subcategories manually. By the way, there is now also a substantive oppose, see below. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

::* Withdraw, per WP:SNOW, clearly no reason to wait on this. Sorry y'all! Kingsmasher678 (talk) 04:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural oppose per Jlwoodwa. Without prejudice to a bundled nomination including all siblings and parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Where does this leave us? Splitting this not-especially-large category up by state was a really bad idea, for readers without a detailed knowledge of Indian political geography. Like the mad sub-division of so many Italian and French categories. Unfortunately no one seems to feel it necessary to find consensus for such changes first. Many if not most of these caves are not correctly described as "temples" in any case - they were dormitories/study centres for monks. How does the proposed name "differentiate this group from naturally forming caves"? It doesn't. I will oppose a bundled nom too. Johnbod (talk) 06:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

:* I am looking into the articles now. Very few of them describe these caves as temples indeed. It is probably a better idea to rename the subcategories and remove "temples" from the name (and also merge some of the subcategories but that is a completely different issue). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

:*:As the creator, I don’t completely disagree. For the record, I searched in depth for previous discussion and couldn’t find any, leading to my be bold decision. Ultimately, I would completely ok with renaming the groups, though if so the Hindu equivalent category should also be renamed. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 14:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

:*::If they are renamed though, it should be to “Buddhist rock-cut caves of X”. It is a very important distinction between naturally formed sites and manmade ones. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 14:08, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• :::That's assuming the caves fall neatly into those two groups; they don't. In areas with many natural caves it is often pretty much impossible to say whether a cave is a natural one that's been expanded or not. Johnbod (talk) 14:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::Agreeing with Johnbod. Extensive stonecarving is common in such caves and could eliminate evidence that the cave was expanded from a natural cave. Categorizing naturally-occurring caves by religion also seems potentially problematic. Would a cave with attested use by multiple religions, or carving in multiple religious traditions, go in multiple categories?
• ::::Categorizing the caves by the type(s) of rock they are in (e.g. basalt, limestone) might give the sort of indication you are looking for, but unambiguously. HLHJ (talk) 22:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::::@Johnbod has a point, but in most or all of these cases the caves are carved in to rock types that don't form natural caves with any meaningful regularity, since they are mostly cut in basalt or granite, not limestone. And, if they do fall into both categories, they would still be rock cut architecture, and therefore would fall under the cat, though perhaps not exclusively under it. Most if not all of these articles refer to the caves as being exclusively rock-cut, so I don't see this being a meaningful issue. Breaking them up by rock type would be nightmare, and isn't really all that useful for navigation. The description of the these formations as "caves" has a very specific connotation, and it isn't an accurate one, particularly compared to nearly everything else in :category:caves.
• :::::As for religion, that was a choice made by the people who first created all of those categories. In the current time, most caves used by more than one group over time are tagged with all relevant categories.
• :::::Ultimately, the current name is not quite accurate, and needs some workshopping and or tweaking.
• :::::Kingsmasher678 (talk) 23:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Johnbod (talk) 04:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Alagoas. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Alagoas society to :Category:Alagoas

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Education in Alagoas}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 06:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Advocacy groups in Switzerland}}

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Political advocacy groups in Switzerland}}, which is already in the appropriate subcategories of {{c|Advocacy groups by country}} and {{c|Organisations based in Switzerland by subject}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 05:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Advertising. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Advertising events to :Category:Advertising

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the subcategory {{c|Advertising awards}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 05:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Hornblower characters}}

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only the article Horatio Hornblower, which is already in {{cat|Horatio Hornblower}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 04:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Jontesta (talk) 14:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Felida⁹⁷ (talk)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Exonumia utility templates to :Category:Numismatics utility templates

:Nominator's rationale: Contains only {{tl|exonumia-stub}}. jlwoodwa (talk) 04:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. The only article in this category is already also categorised under the proposed merge target, so this is, functionally, a delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Supermarkets of Cameroon to :Category:Lists of supermarket chains by country

:Nominator's rationale: Category containing only a list article, unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 00:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose (at least with the given rationale). It looks like at least :Spar (retailer) and :Coopérative U are still active in Cameroon (see [https://spar-international.com/country/cameroon-2/] and [https://www.theafricareport.com/323297/how-supermarket-giant-systeme-u-is-cashing-in-on-casinos-retreat-from-africa/] in addition to their Wikipedia articles). I have added those two to that category, which means it now at least contains as many as a couple of its sibling categories. (:Carrefour looks to be active as well [https://carrefour.cm/2024/10/03/carrefour-celebre-7-ans-de-communion-avec-ses-clients-et-partenaires-pendant-tout-le-mois-doctobre/], but I have not added it yet, because I would have to add it to the main article first, which I can't do right now.) Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* I purged Carrefour and Spar, they are a French and a Dutch company respectively, we don't categorize multinational companies by all of their locations. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:*:@Marcocapelle: I thought that might be the case and makes sense (I wasn't entirely sure and had a quick look through a bunch of the sibling cats, at least half contained ones that I know did not originate from that country (mostly the German one, I noticed), and those lists "List of supermarket chains in..." contain those as well, but those are obv named "in country" and not "of country"). I have removed / am currently a bunch more by that principle. What do you do with companies like :Lidl Austria or :Walmart Canada? You would categorize those according to the country they're based in as well (so, Austria and Canada, respectively, in this case), too, right? Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 20:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:*: Oh, and obv Support merge now. Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. The only article in this category is already also categorised under the proposed merge target, so this is, functionally, a delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Supermarkets of Djibouti to :Category:Lists of supermarket chains by country

:Nominator's rationale: Category containing only a list article, unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 00:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. Looks like the only notable chains on the mentioned list article (:List of supermarket chains in Djibouti), Cash Centre Leader Price and Casino Supermarkets, have ceased or are ceasing operation in general this year as well, so it doesn't look like the cat could be populated beyond the current state. Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 23:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Restaurants in Wales. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Restaurants in Monmouthshire to :Category:Restaurants in Wales

:Nominator's rationale: Merge also to :Category:Buildings and structures in Monmouthshire.

Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. Better categorised within parents. AusLondonder (talk) 00:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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