Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 28#Transgender by country

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. A nomination of the entire tree might find consensus. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:Shades of black to :Category:Shades of black and :Category:Black (color)

:Nominator's rationale: A black horse is not a shade of color, but color black is a defining characteristic of black horses. (BTW: we should do similarly for other subcats in :Category:Shades of color, so that one could properly categorize fauna and flora notably associated with particular colors.) fgnievinski (talk) 03:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Just purge, attributing colour to flora, fauna and other stuff becomes too subjective. E.g. Black rain speaks of dark rather than black particulates. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
• :Just purge all :Category:Symbols by color, too? fgnievinski (talk) 07:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
• :* Wow. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge all as in the updated nomination with no prejudice against recreation if they can be appropriately populated. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Transport on stamps to :Category:Topical postage stamps and :Category:Transport in culture

:* Propose merging :Category:Sport on stamps to :Category:Topical postage stamps and :Category:Sports culture

:* Propose merging :Category:Space exploration on stamps to :Category:Topical postage stamps and :Category:Works about outer space

:* Propose merging :Category:Plants on stamps to :Category:Topical postage stamps and :Category:Plants in culture

:* Propose merging :Category:Animals on stamps to :Category:Topical postage stamps and :Category:Animals in culture

:Nominator's rationale: Merge all; these categories have three or less items. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Shouldn't it be a dual merge? Marcocapelle (talk) 03:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• :@Marcocapelle, I wasn't sure about whether stamps can be considered art. I've never heard them described as such. What do you think? Omnis Scientia (talk) 07:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• :* {{ping|Omnis Scientia}} I share your hesitation about art. Then the second merge target is better taken a level higher, e.g. "in culture". Marcocapelle (talk) 15:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• :*:@Marcocapelle, yes that works. I'll add the second targets then. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep Transport and Animals – both contain useful subcategories and have potential to grow. Cremastra (talk) 23:36, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Cremastra's objection?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:36, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Cremastra's objection?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• I don't see why we would make an exception for Transport and Animals. We can always recreate them if more articles will be available. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 02:20, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Medical doctors in British media}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category for a non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. Medical doctors all over the world frequently appear as talking heads and experts in media coverage of health-related topics and/or moonlight as full-on health journalists themselves, so this would be entirely subjective and unmaintainable: should it contain every medical doctor who has ever appeared in media at all, or is there some specific and arbitrary minimum number of media appearances that a medical doctor has to make before they belong in this category?
So "medical doctors in media" is not a defining intersection of traits in its own right, meaning that no {{cl|Medical doctors in media}} parent or "Medical doctors in [Any Other Country] media" siblings exist at all, and Britain doesn't have any special need for this if no other country has such a thing. Bearcat (talk) 15:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. This category was created during Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of doctors working in the British media, where myself and another editor favored converting the list into a category. Svampesky (talk) 17:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

::That doesn't make it okay. If no other country has one of these, then the UK doesn't need it either. Bearcat (talk) 17:37, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

• Keep anyway, but we should not be doing a three-card-trick, heads we win, tails you lose shuffle with Afd, as has happened before. Perhaps Afd closers should be made to check whether categories proposed as a solution are viable. For the ones I recognised it was defining, indeed the only reason most are notable - do you have examples where it isn't defining? These can be purged. Johnbod (talk) 17:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

::Again, the issue is WP:OCARBITRARY. To be viable, this category would have to impose a cutoff as to how many times the doctor had appeared in media before the category became warranted, and it would be completely unmaintainable without such an arbitrary cutoff — but we don't allow categories with arbitrary cutoff criteria. Bearcat (talk) 17:38, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

::I don't see that, & as you know "how many times the doctor had appeared in media" is information we will never have. We certainly don't apply this sort of draconian test to other categories. In fact the category seems fairly well-controlled. WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST is no argument. Johnbod (talk) 13:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

:::One isolated media appearance obviously isn't enough to justify adding a doctor to this category in and of itself, so the question of how many appearances does a doctor has to make before the category becomes warranted is both relevant and, as you correctly point out, largely unverifiable. Bearcat (talk) 17:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

• Delete As arbitrary, poorly-defined and unwieldy. AusLondonder (talk) 16:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

:Delete per AusLondoder. Either is unwieldy or arbitrary, neither of which are acceptable in categories. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 16:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge :Category:United States television series navigational boxes and :Category:How I Met Your Mother. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:54, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|How I Met Your Mother navigational boxes}}

:Nominator's rationale: Only contains two entrys Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 22:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Presumably it needs to be upmerged rather than deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
• MErge to :Category:United States television series navigational boxes and :Category:How I Met Your Mother. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: manual merge to :Category:World War II intelligence services personnel. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Military intelligence officers of World War II to :Category:World War II intelligence services personnel

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories Mason (talk) 22:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support in principle but try and disperse the articles among the subcategories (manual merge). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
• :{{yo|Smasongarrison}} are you okay with a manual merge? HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
• ::Totally ok with a manual merge Mason (talk) 21:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: upmerge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Defunct airlines of Anguilla}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category containing a single article which is List of defunct airlines of Anguilla. Unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 21:39, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Presumably it needs to be upmerged rather than deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

::I don't think so because I don't think the included article is suitable for any parent category. AusLondonder (talk) 00:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

::* Why not? Marcocapelle (talk) 15:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

::*:Merge, not delete. Airlines of Anguilla, Defunct companies of Anguilla, Defunct airlines of the Caribbean are obvious merge targets. Mason (talk) 03:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

::*::Upmerge, not delete per Marco and Mason. NLeeuw (talk) 21:18, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Chinese opera actresses to :Category:Actresses of Chinese opera

:* Propose renaming :Category:Male Chinese opera actors to :Category:Male actors of Chinese opera

:Nominator's rationale: I think that we should rename this category to make it clearer that this is the genre and not a nationality. Notably the parent is :Category:Actors of Chinese opera. Obviously we'd have to consider how the child categories are organized/named, but I think that we could do that in a 2nd cfd to consider options. Mason (talk) 20:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom, the current names are ambiguous. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:43, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• :Wouldn't these titles imply non-Chinese people can be actors of Chinese opera? --MikutoH ^talk! 02:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:LGBTQ rights in the People's Republic of China to :Category:LGBTQ rights in China

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERLAPCAT. The "China" category is a parent of the "People's Republic of China" category, and they both categorise the same thing. 1857a (talk) 15:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Merge, the content of the category is not clearly limited to the People's Republic period. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:43, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. :Category:LGBTQ rights in Taiwan exists separately, so there is no risk of confusion with Republic of China. NLeeuw (talk) 21:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Rome Film Festival}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:TOOSOON category without enough content to support it. The Rome Film Festival has not yet had articles created for any prior edition, with the upcoming 2024 festival being the first time such a thing has ever been created -- and while it's possible that the 18 prior editions (as well as future ones) may be added in the future, it's also possible that they won't be.
So this can be recreated if and when three or four other editions also have articles in place to file in it, but four or five articles have to exist first and then the category to contain them comes second, rather than the category existing in advance of content for it. Bearcat (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete for now, without objection to recreate the category when more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:21, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Keep, it has 3 pages. More are expected to be created. Deleting now and re-creating later will be unnecessary exercise. Thanks Rickyurs (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Christian saints from the Ottoman Empire to :Category:Eastern Orthodox saints from the Ottoman Empire

:Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content, all articles are about Eastern Orthodox people. No objection to recreation of the original name if saints from the Ottoman Empire of other denominations are identified. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:52, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Mason (talk) 20:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Greek Orthodox Christians from the Ottoman Empire to :Category:Eastern Orthodox Christians from the Ottoman Empire

:Nominator's rationale: rename, aligning with siblings in :Category:Eastern Orthodox Christians by nationality. Also, it will become less ambiguous, with the current name "Greek" could be understood as Greek nationality, which however is not the case. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:47, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Thank you for digging through this complexity Mason (talk) 20:07, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Belostoksky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Belsky Uyezd (Grodno Governorate)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Brestsky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Grodnensky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Kobrinsky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Pruzhansky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Slonimsky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Sokolsky Uyezd

:* Propose deleting :Category:Volkovyssky Uyezd

:Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only the eponymous article and a subcategory each. The articles are already in :Category:Uezds of Grodno Governorate, the subcategories are already in :Category:People from Grodno Governorate so there is nothing left to merge. For context, uezds were second-level administrative divisions of the Russian Empire, governorates were the first-level administrative divisions. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

::Delete all per nom. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 20:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Centuries in Shusha

:* Propose deleting :Category:21st century in Shusha

:* Propose deleting :Category:2020s in Shusha

:* Propose deleting :Category:Decades in Shusha

:Nominator's rationale: delete, only one article in four categories. No need to merge because the article is already in :Category:Military history of Shusha. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

::Delete Single-article category for Battle of Shusha (2020), not enough evidence of expandability. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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