Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 5#Ancient or ancient

= January 5 =

== Category:100 Books for Schoolchildren ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|100 Books for Schoolchildren}}

:Nominator's rationale: I created this category and started populating it, but it came to my mind to check with the community whether it satisfies our rules of categorization. --Altenmann >talk 21:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

::Delete per WP:TOPTEN. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 23:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Delete Textbook WP:TOPTEN. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:People from the Holy Roman Empire by subdivision ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 01:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:People from the Holy Roman Empire by subdivision to :Category:People from the Holy Roman Empire by state

:Nominator's rationale: rename, although the Holy Roman Empire also had another type of subdivision, namely Imperial circles, the subcategories here are all by state. Also re-parent the category to :Category:States of the Holy Roman Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

::Support renaming (but oppose merging). I'm fine with renaming it to something. I'm assuming you meant to propose renaming to People from the Holy Roman Empire by state. My goal was to help make the parent category navigable. JPL had just dumped all of these states into the parent category.^SMason_Garrison 21:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

::* Yes, that is what I meant, thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:IShowSpeed ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 01:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|IShowSpeed}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category should definitely be deleted. There is one single article in this category, and it is overall not quite notable of a topic to warrant a category to itself. ClovisBarnhopper (talk) 21:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Delete, this is not helpful for navigation. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:49, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Deputy prime ministers of Liechtenstein ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Deputy prime ministers of Liechtenstein to :Category:Deputy heads of government of Liechtenstein

:Nominator's rationale: To be in-line with :Category:Heads of government of Liechtenstein. TheBritinator (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:50, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Liechtenstein government councillors ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: meanwhile already deleted (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Liechtenstein government councillors}}

:Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary duplicate of :Category:Government ministers of Liechtenstein TheBritinator (talk) 16:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Category has been prematurely emptied by the nominator. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|TheBritinator}} you'd better tag this page with {{Db-self}}, this does not seem to require any discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:Understood. Then I withdraw this nom to replace it with that. TheBritinator (talk) 20:39, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Unattested languages of the Americas ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 01:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Unattested languages of the Americas to :Category:Unattested languages

:* :Category:Unclassified languages of the Americas to :Category:Unclassified languages by continent

:Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful for navigation when there are only two categories (North and South America) ^SMason_Garrison 15:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Merge per nom. I have added the parent category to the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Ancient or ancient ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

C2A: "Ancient" not typically capitalized in this way. See Theatre of ancient Greece for example. WikiEditor50 (talk) 09:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Oppose all needs discussion. Johnbod (talk) 18:26, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

::* What exactly is your problem, sir? The vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt). Also, "Museums of Ancient Near East" categories are missing the definite article regardless of your preferences ("Museums of the Ancient Near East" or "Museums of the ancient Near East").--Russian Rocky (talk) 21:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

:::*I'm fine with adding "the" - it's "ancient" that needs discussion. If it it is true that "the vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt)" this is only because of recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus. Johnbod (talk) 04:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::::*So why don't you discuss it on Talk:Ancient Near East instead? To begin with, there is not enough people in CFDs to discuss this matter. Also, what "capitalization fanatics" are you talking about? Are you aware that "Ancient Near East" was changed to "ancient Near East" in 2011 (Talk:Ancient Near East#Capitalization)? Here's an excerpt: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"." Since 2011, nobody has talked about capitalization on Talk:Ancient Near East.

:::::Except Category:Novels set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Films set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Sculpture of the Ancient Near East, other categories with no definite article should be renamed in any case. I suggest to stick to "ancient Near East" at first because it's more widespread inspite of your claim about "a handful of capitalization fanatics" (you provided no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and is under discussion). Personally, I don't care whether it is "ancient Near East" or "Ancient Near East", but the current consensus is apparently the former and let's stick to it.--Russian Rocky (talk) 20:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Most category and article page names do use lowercase "ancient" in phrases like "ancient Rome" and "ancient Greece" (excluding language designations). See usage throughout the Ancient Rome page, Social class in ancient Rome, Patrician (ancient Rome), Timeline of ancient Greece, :Category:Wikipedians interested in ancient Rome, :Category:Novels set in ancient Rome, :Category:Prosopography of ancient Rome, :Category:Wars involving ancient Greece, :Category:Battles involving ancient Greece, :Category:Culture of ancient Greece, and :Category:History books about ancient Greece for examples. I believe we should aim for consistency in article and category names. Many of these pages and categories have had these names for quite some time and were not moved recently. If you would like to use uppercase in phrases like "Ancient Greece", why not propose this at the talk pages of the main pages? WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Russian Rocky}} are you planning to move this to full discussion? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

::* Yes, please. Unfortunately, I can't figure out myself what Johnbod's problem is. He claimed that the vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" because of "recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus", but there is no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and/or is under discussion. I agree with InverseHypercube on Talk:Ancient Near East who said the following: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"."

::* See The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (Appendix A: Capitalization and Spelling Examples) at the Internet Archive: [https://archive.org/details/sblhandbookofsty0000unse/page/152/mode/2up?q=%22ancient+Near+East+%28noun%29%22 p. 153: "ancient Near East (noun)" "ancient Near Eastern (adj.)"].--Russian Rocky (talk) 08:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

: Nominator's rationale: rename per precedent. These nominations were opposed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

{{ping|Russian Rocky|Johnbod|WikiEditor50}} pinging contributors to the discussion at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:33, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Rename Capitalizing would only make sense per MOS:CAPS if these were being used as formal nouns. If you look at say, Ancient Rome, "ancient" is lowercase within the body of that article. I'm open to hearing the competing viewpoints from the speedy discussion but, so far, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of WP:C2B, consistency with established Wikipedia naming conventions and practices. - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:14, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Oppose per "established Wikipedia naming conventions and practices" - most of these categories have been there for years, some for over a decade, under these names. Decapitalizing is a very recent fashion, led by a handful of enthusiats. But Change all to "the Ancient Near East" (regardless of capialization). Johnbod (talk) 15:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Rename Regardless of the move outcome, the last one (Ancient near eastern cosmology) is miscapitalized on Near East and its move target is independent of the others because ancient is the first word. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 23:45, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Support. I don't have a super strong opinion on "ancient" vs "Ancient", though I am inclined towards the lowercase version. Regardless of the outcome there, :Category:Ancient near eastern cosmology should certainly be capitalised as :Category:Ancient Near Eastern cosmology, and all of the :Category:Museums of Ancient Near East categories should be "the Ancient [or ancient] Near East". Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 12:27, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
Rename. As I have pointed out in the previous discussion, most categories use lowercase "ancient" ; hence, for consistency, thesse should use lowercase "ancient" as well. Most such categories were not moved recently. WikiEditor50 (talk) 23:51, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Category:10th-century churches in Russia==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 15%23Category:10th-century churches in Russia

== Shortening of MPBL category names ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League awards to :Category:Category:MPBL awards

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League most valuable player awards to :Category:Category:MPBL most valuable player awards

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League divisions to :Category:Category:MPBL divisions

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League Finals to :Category:Category:MPBL finals

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League lists to :Category:Category:MPBL lists

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League players to :Category:Category:MPBL players

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League players by club to :Category:Category:MPBL players by club

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League playoffs to :Category:Category:MPBL playoffs

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League rivalries to :Category:Category:MPBL rivalries

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League seasons to :Category:Category:MPBL seasons

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League seasons by team to :Category:Category:MPBL seasons by team

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League teams to :Category:Category:MPBL teams

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League former teams to :Category:Category:MPBL former teams

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League templates to :Category:Category:MPBL templates

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League champions navigational boxes to :Category:Category:MPBL champions navigational boxes

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League roster templates to :Category:Category:MPBL roster templates

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League roster navigational boxes to :Category:Category:MPBL roster navigational boxes

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League season by team templates to :Category:Category:MPBL season by team templates

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League statistics templates to :Category:Category:MPBL statistics templates

:* Propose renaming :Category:Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League team templates to :Category:Category:MPBL team templates

:Nominator's rationale: All articles related to the Maharlika Pilipinas Basketball League use the abbreviation "MPBL". Also, the league's name in full might be too long for categories. MarcusAbacus (talk) 06:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Defunct cable television channels in Canada ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Defunct cable television channels in Canada to :Category:Defunct specialty television channels in Canada

:Nominator's rationale: Local terminology Mvcg66b3r (talk) 03:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Cable television channels in Canada ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Cable television channels in Canada to :Category:Specialty television channels in Canada

:Nominator's rationale: Local terminology Mvcg66b3r (talk) 03:44, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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== Category:Ships built in Kirkland, Washington ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 01:11, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose Merging :Category:Ships built in Kirkland, Washington to :Category:Ships built in Washington (state)

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:SYNTH

:The only thing in this category is :Category:Ships built at Lake Washington Shipyard and none of the 48 ships in that subcategory were built in Kirkland. Rather, they were built at the Lake Washington Shipyard which was in unincorporated King County with the official location listed as "Houghton" on the ship registries. That company quit building new ships around 1945, Houghton was incorporated as a city in 1948, and Houghton merged into Kirkland in 1968. Parent :Category:History of Kirkland, Washington more accurately describes the location. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:35, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Background We previously deleted other overlapping categories for this same shipyard at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 March 21#Category:Ships built in Houghton, Washington. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:35, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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==Category:Actors of European descent in Indian films==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 15%23Category:Actors of European descent in Indian films

== Category:Evans family (Paramount Pictures) ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:49, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Evans family (Paramount Pictures) to :Category:Evans family (show business)

:Nominator's rationale: This seems too specific, as most of these people are not directly involved with Paramount except by family connection to Robert Evans. Mike Selinker (talk) 01:04, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

::Rename per precedent about show-business families. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 23:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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