Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 8#Queen mothers

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:08, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Eurovision Song Contest people}}

:Nominator's rationale: A random assortment of people who are in some way related to the Eurovision Song Contest, including producers, executives and even just people who have written about the contest. Fails WP:NONDEFINING and specifically violates WP:OCASSOC. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 22:54, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Delete per nom. More specific associations would be useful if they could be sufficiently populated. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:50, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete Don't need this category for categorizing participation in a particular event. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 10:51, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. SRamzy (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:07, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Unfree labor in the Soviet Union to :Category:Forced labor in the Soviet Union

:Nominator's rationale: Per parent cat and catmain:

:* "unfree" is an euphemism for "forced"

:* 00:51, October 13, 2024 JJMC89 bot III talk contribs m 182 bytes 0 Moving Category:Unfree labour by country to :Category:Forced labour by country per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy

:*catmain = Forced labor in the Soviet Union

:: --Altenmann >talk 20:59, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Speedy rename per C2C and C2D. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:51, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
• Speedy rename per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:07, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Unfree labor in the United States to :Category:Forced labor in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: Per parent cat and catmain:

:* "unfree" is an euphemism for "forced"

:* 00:51, October 13, 2024 JJMC89 bot III talk contribs m 182 bytes 0 Moving Category:Unfree labour by country to :Category:Forced labour by country per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy

:*catmain = History of forced labor in the United States

::--Altenmann >talk 21:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Speedy rename per C2C and C2D. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:43, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
• Speedy rename per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:07, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|College World Series venues}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCVENUE. User:Namiba 17:39, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:49, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete This isn't purpose built or an ongoing function. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:49, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:10, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Drummond family of Alabama}} to :Category:Drummond family (Alabama)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Wallace family of Alabama}} to :Category:Wallace family (Alabama)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Folsom family of Alabama}} to :Category:Folsom family (Alabama)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Abernathy family of Alabama}} to :Category:Abernathy family (Alabama)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Rodney family of Delaware}} to :Category:Rodney family (Delaware)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Braun family of Indiana}} to :Category:Braun family (Indiana)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Wallace family of Iowa}} to :Category:Wallace family (Iowa)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hardin family of Kentucky}} to :Category:Hardin family (Kentucky)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Clay family of Kentucky}} to :Category:Clay family (Kentucky)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Brown family of Kentucky}} to :Category:Brown family (Kentucky)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Howard family of Louisiana}} to :Category:Howard family (Louisiana)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Collins family of Maine}} to :Category:Collins family (Maine)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Byron family of Maryland}} to :Category:Byron family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Dorsey family of Maryland}} to :Category:Dorsey family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Patterson family of Maryland}} to :Category:Patterson family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Lloyd family of Maryland}} to :Category:Lloyd family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Mitchell family of Maryland}} to :Category:Mitchell family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Howard family of Maryland}} to :Category:Howard family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Gorman family of Maryland}} to :Category:Gorman family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Beall family of Maryland}} to :Category:Beall family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Key family of Maryland}} to :Category:Key family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Archer family of Maryland}} to :Category:Archer family (Maryland)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hancock family of Massachusetts}} to :Category:Hancock family (Massachusetts)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Baldwin family of Massachusetts}} to :Category:Baldwin family (Massachusetts)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Bok family of Massachusetts}} to :Category:Bok family (Massachusetts)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Percy family of Mississippi}} to :Category:Percy family (Mississippi)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Montgomery family of Mississippi}} to :Category:Montgomery family (Mississippi)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:McLane family of New Hampshire}} to :Category:McLane family (New Hampshire)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Gilman family of New Hampshire}} to :Category:Gilman family (New Hampshire)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Stockton family of New Jersey}} to :Category:Stockton family (New Jersey)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Crane family of New Jersey}} to :Category:Crane family (New Jersey)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Baca family of New Mexico}} to :Category:Baca family (New Mexico)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Powell family of New York}} to :Category:Powell family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Mortimer family of New York}} to :Category:Mortimer family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Goodyear family of New York}} to :Category:Goodyear family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Clinton family of New York}} to :Category:Clinton family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Spencer family of New York}} to :Category:Spencer family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Murray family of New York}} to :Category:Murray family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Manning family of New York}} to :Category:Manning family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Wilson family of New York}} to :Category:Wilson family (New York)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Norris family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Norris family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Broughton family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Broughton family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hunt family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Hunt family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Scott family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Scott family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Campbell family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Campbell family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Carson family of North Carolina}} to :Category:Carson family (North Carolina)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Kennon family of Ohio}} to :Category:Kennon family (Ohio)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Roberts family of Oregon}} to :Category:Roberts family (Oregon)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Lane family of Oregon}} to :Category:Lane family (Oregon)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Reed family of Pennsylvania and New Jersey}} to :Category:Reed family (Pennsylvania and New Jersey)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Tanner family of Pennsylvania}} to :Category:Tanner family (Pennsylvania)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Street family of Pennsylvania}} to :Category:Street family (Pennsylvania)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hazard family of Rhode Island}} to :Category:Hazard family (Rhode Island)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Clarke family of Rhode Island}} to :Category:Clarke family (Rhode Island)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Greene family of Rhode Island}} to :Category:Greene family (Rhode Island)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Ford family of Tennessee}} to :Category:Ford family (Tennessee)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Keeble family of Tennessee}} to :Category:Keeble family (Tennessee)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hunt family of Vermont}} to :Category:Hunt family (Vermont)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Byrd family of Virginia}} to :Category:Byrd family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Randolph family of Virginia}} to :Category:Randolph family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Bolling family of Virginia}} to :Category:Bolling family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Harrison family of Virginia}} to :Category:Harrison family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Fitzhugh family of Virginia}} to :Category:Fitzhugh family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Lee family of Virginia}} to :Category:Lee family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Bland family of Virginia}} to :Category:Bland family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Carter family of Virginia}} to :Category:Carter family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Custis family of Virginia}} to :Category:Custis family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Rolfe family of Virginia}} to :Category:Rolfe family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Taliaferro family of Virginia}} to :Category:Taliaferro family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Cary family of Virginia}} to :Category:Cary family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Maury family of Virginia}} to :Category:Maury family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Meade family of Virginia}} to :Category:Meade family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Tayloe family of Virginia}} to :Category:Tayloe family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Page family of Virginia}} to :Category:Page family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Mercer family of Virginia}} to :Category:Mercer family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Nelson family of Virginia}} to :Category:Nelson family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Hunter family of Virginia}} to :Category:Hunter family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Burwell family of Virginia}} to :Category:Burwell family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Garnett family of Virginia}} to :Category:Garnett family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Brockenbrough family of Virginia}} to :Category:Brockenbrough family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Beverley family of Virginia}} to :Category:Beverley family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Braxton family of Virginia}} to :Category:Braxton family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Boyd family of Virginia and West Virginia}} to :Category:Boyd family (Virginia and West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Wise family of Virginia}} to :Category:Wise family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Cooke family of Virginia}} to :Category:Cooke family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Caperton family of Virginia and West Virginia}} to :Category:Caperton family (Virginia and West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Dandridge family of Virginia}} to :Category:Dandridge family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Mathews family of Virginia and West Virginia}} to :Category:Mathews family (Virginia and West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Robertson family of Virginia}} to :Category:Robertson family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Fauntleroy family of Virginia}} to :Category:Fauntleroy family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Massie family of Virginia}} to :Category:Massie family (Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Jackson family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Jackson family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Parsons family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Parsons family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Staggers family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Staggers family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Maxwell family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Maxwell family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Moore family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Moore family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Morgan family of West Virginia}} to :Category:Morgan family (West Virginia)

:* Propose renaming {{lc|Category:Kohler family of Wisconsin}} to :Category:Kohler family (Wisconsin)

:Nominator's rationale: Inconsistent with the usual disambiguation convention. In particular, the speedy rename for :Category:Roberts family of Oregon reverted a previous speedy rename to :Category:Roberts family (Oregon). No attempt was made to determine if the disambiguator was necessary and sufficient, except for :Category:Vann family of Georgia (U.S. state) which I listed at CfDS istead of here because there is no need for disambiguation. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:29, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Agree. Inconsistent. Onikaburgers (talk) 19:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:09, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Attempted assassination of Harry S. Truman}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Florida}}

:Nominator's rationale: Delete; only the main article itself and three somewhat related articles each. Omnis Scientia (talk) 07:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Delete Non-defining association for two items in the Trump category. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:39, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Delete. I agree with the rationale made. Onikaburgers (talk) 19:16, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:09, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español}} to :Category:Rock en español

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español albums}} to :Category:Rock en español albums

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español compilation albums}} to :Category:Rock en español compilation albums

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español EPs}} to :Category:Rock en español EPs

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Live Rock en Español albums}} to :Category:Live rock en español albums

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español video albums}} to :Category:Rock en español video albums

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español musicians}} to :Category:Rock en español musicians

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español music groups}} to :Category:Rock en español music groups

:* Propose renaming {{cl|Rock en Español songs}} to :Category:Rock en español songs

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2A and WP:C2D. Language names are not capitalized in Spanish. Also, for Live Rock en Español albums in particular, rock is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized. PrinceTortoise (he/him • poke • inspect) 06:40, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Support per associated article Rock en español. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::Support but the nomination appears to be a speedy request. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:05, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:41, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Regional Emmy Award winners}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAWARD Mvcg66b3r (talk) 06:34, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:38, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete/Comment Certainly not defining and should be deleted. Ideally the parent category, :Category:Emmy Award winners, would be a container so these biographies don't end up there, but looks like there's already quite a few loose articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: dual merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:42, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Baseball players from Juniata County, Pennsylvania to :Category:Baseball players from Pennsylvania

:Nominator's rationale: Category with just two entries. Lost in Quebec (talk) 14:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as part of a larger category structure :Category:Baseball players from Pennsylvania by county.--User:Namiba 18:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:09, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Dual merge to :Category:People from Juniata County, Pennsylvania as well. We don't need to diffuse by every county. –Aidan721 (talk) 05:02, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to the (show business) disambiguation, and to :Category:Newman–Woodward family. Jc37, it is technically an en dash ({{endash}}), not an em dash ({{emdash}}) {{wink}} HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:55, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Gibb musical family to :Category:Gibb family (music) or :Category:Gibb family (show business)

:** :Category:Chapin musical family to :Category:Chapin family (music) or :Category:Chapin family (show business)

:** :Category:Swan musical family to :Category:Swan family (music) or :Category:Swan family (show business)

:** :Category:Earle musical family to :Category:Earle family (music) or :Category:Earle family (show business)

:** :Category:Donovan musical family to :Category:Donovan family (show business)

:** :Category:Newman family (show business) to :Category:Newman–Woodward family (but don't delete the former)

:* Propose merging :Category:Newman family (music) to :Category:Newman family (show business)

:Nominator's rationale: Nearly all other families that need disambiguation have the type of career at the end, in parentheses, such as :Category:Jackson family (show business). Also, :Category:Newman family (music) is already named this way. It's reasonable to standardize these. Mike Selinker (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename all using (show business) for disambiguation, per grandparent cat. Might as well unify naming on all of these. - jc37 19:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• :I agree with that, and have added the option to the nomination above. Let's do that instead if people agree. (We might have to look at the Newman category separately, since Paul Newman's family is in :Category:Newman family (show business).) Mike Selinker (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::In that case (and I'm just tossing this out there), perhaps in that case rename to :Category:Paul Newman family (show business)? Since in that isolated case, they all seem directly related to him? (Especially with the inclusion of Joanne Woodward...) - jc37 05:07, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
• :::Yup. I'd say the actual title would be :Category:Family of Paul Newman. Another option would be :Category:Newman–Woodward family. Mike Selinker (talk) 05:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::::I think you're right in that :Category:Newman–Woodward family would be the best answer there. - jc37 01:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• :::::OK, the nomination now reflects all of that. If this passes, I'll put hatnotes on the Newman categories so there's no confusion. Mike Selinker (talk) 01:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::I oppose change to Newman–Woodward family - but fine with 'Family of Paul Newman' if there is to be a change. GiantSnowman 20:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::GiantSnowman - You have me curious. Why do you oppose that? - jc37 00:39, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::Because it's not really accurate or helpful. It implies the family surname is 'Newman-Woodward', which is not the case. GiantSnowman 10:07, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::::Many family categories are formatted that way. :Category:Houston–Warwick family or even :Category:Arnold–Bridges–Pryor family, for example. How would you format it? - jc37 15:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::::Actually, I just looked at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Dashes. You're incorrect per Wikipedia usage. A hyphen is used for compound names. These are using the em dash. - jc37 15:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
• Support Better than what we have now. Azuredivay (talk) 05:10, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: I don't understand the proposal for the second Newman category. Is it a duplicate, or a different family with the same surname? In any case, the fate of the first Newman category remains unsettled.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• It does not make too much sense to use a show business disambiguator when both Newman families are related to show business. Then it is probably better to keep :Category:Newman family (music) as is. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• They are not duplicates. We have three Newman family categories on Wikipedia: :Category:Newman family which is a fictional family listed for renaming here, :Category:Newman family (show business) which is the family of actors Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, and :Category:Newman family (music) which is the family of composers such as Randy Newman. The proposal is to move the actors into a category that focuses on the most famous members, as :Category:Newman–Woodward family, and to move the musicians into :Category: Newman family (show business). But User: Marcocapelle suggests leaving it as "(music)" which is also fine. We could also make the actor category into :Category:Newman family (acting) but that would be the only category with "acting" in its name, so I prefer :Category:Newman–Woodward family. All this said, it should not impede the renaming of the other categories in this nomination. Mike Selinker (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• :That was/is my understanding. And regardless of what happens with the category holding Randy Newman's family's articles, I think the other one should definitely be merged to :Category:Newman–Woodward family, because it is the more neutral name. - jc37 06:34, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Junior Eurovision Song Contest entrants}}

:Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (subcategories were already deleted; see previous discussion here). Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: See comment below D4NT3023 D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep These contestants seem notable for little else and likely wouldn't have Wikipedia articles without this performance. Unlikely to create category clutter with 15 minutes of fame. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:27, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
• Keep. Although there is much less publicity around this contest than the Eurovision Song Contest, and many former contestants do become notable for different things later in their career (such as Dino Jelusick, Eglė Jurgaitytė or Freya Skye), their Junior Eurovision Song Contest participation remains one of the first things mentioned about them in reliable sources. Furthermore, as with ESC, participating in JESC is much more than just a performance. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 23:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: There is dispute about whether this contest (and its conterpart for regular Eurovision) is sufficiently defining to meet the standards of WP:PERFCAT.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:04, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Strong keep per my comments Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Song contest performer categories. JESC participation is their defining characteristic. The Junior Eurovision Song Contest is a very big competition, and most kids will be remembered solely for that and their participation in the contest will remain the peak of their career. --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:30, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:48, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Eurovision Song Contest entrants}}

:Nominator's rationale: Renominating (see previous discussion which was a procedural close); WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") and WP:NONDEFINING violation (subcategories were already deleted; see previous discussion here) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 14:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. The Eurovision Song Contest generates a lot of publicity, but categories are qualitative (e.g. singers), not quantitative (by amount of publicity). Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Strong keep: See comment below D4NT3023 (talk) 17:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Strong keep: 1. As pointed out below by D4NT3023, the alleged violation (WP:PERFCAT (specifically "Performers by production") DOES NOT APPLY. It would apply if the category was something like Performers in Cats (musical) or Singers who have performed at Carnegie Hall. Neither of these applies: Eurovision is not a venue and it is not merely a performance: it is a competition, like a sporting event. Note wording: "Avoid categorizing performers by an appearance at an event or other performance venue. This also includes categorization by performance—even for permanent or recurring roles—in any specific radio, television, film, or theatrical production (such as The Jack Benny Program, M*A*S*H, Star Wars, or The Phantom of the Opera)." Eurovision is not a specific television production, since the events in the competition vary each year in an unscripted way. 2. The alleged WP:NONDEFINING violation does not apply. As others have commented (refer previous discussion), entering in Eurovision is not a soon-forgotten event like entering in "American Idol". Eurovision entrants represent their country, and in this respect are similar to Olympic competitors. Their status as entrant in Eurovision is invariably a high point in their career and remains something that defines them. Consequently, articles on Eurovision entrants invariably mention this fact as a defining characteristic: for instance, the page for the Irish group Sheeba states "They are best known for representing the host nation, Ireland, in the Eurovision Song Contest in 1981". In some cases, their status as a Eurovision entrant is the only memorable event recorded about them, e.g. Christine Minier. However, other Eurovision entrants have used their public exposure in Eurovision as a springboard to build successful careers, despite not winning on the night, e.g. Natasha St-Pier, Amina Annabi, Cathal Dunne. SRamzy (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Participation in Eurovision is defining because it's one of the first things mentioned about these artists by reliable sources (even in the article about ABBA, their Eurovision participation is among the first things mentioned, despite them being notable for a lot of other things too). That said, this category currently does not have any subcategories, although its scope includes over 1700 artists. Such a large category really should be diffused, which is why I am puzzled by the closure of the previous discussion about the subcategories. That discussion had two people opposing deletion with policy-based arguments, but they were completely ignored. (Besides, I created a few of those categories myself but I was not notified about the discussion?) ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 19:17, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
• :I would support any proposal to reverse the deletion of the subcategories by country and by year. That deletion was rushed through over the Christmas - New Year period, and not at all publicised. SRamzy (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::{{reply|Jochem van Hees|SRamzy}} I believe all or at least some of these nominations were closed by a non-admin. Maybe they can even be re-opened "just like that". (I don't know the rules.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
• :::Interesting. Is an administrator reading this? SRamzy (talk) 12:42, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete We make an exception to WP:PERFCAT for reality show contestants when they are known for little else. I clicked through several of these areticles and they all seemed prominent as artists beyond the competition. - RevelationDirect (talk) 15:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
• :{{Reply to|RevelationDirect}} I don't think it matters if you're known for other things as well? (Otherwise people notable for two distinct things can't be categorized under either.) According to WP:NONDEFINING, what matters is what sources {{em|consistently}} refer to. As pointed out above, that is the case for competing in Eurovision. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 02:01, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
• ::While we respectfully disagree here, I think you have a reasonable perspective for this category. My larger concerns is really with all the more minor feeder contests nominated on this page that would collectively add clutter to the bottom of articles. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
• :That's just a small part of all the ESC participants (even I know most of the names). It looks like someone has attempted to fill the category a little bit after all the subcategories (by country and by year) were deleted a couple of weeks ago. And that editor started with the most famous artists like ABBA. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:10, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Strong keep per my comments Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Song contest performer categories. For most of the entrants, ESC participation is their defining characteristic. The Eurovision Song Contest is a very big competition, and for many if not most of the entrants their participation in the contest will remain the peak of their career. (Even now, all or almost all the articles mention ESC in the lead.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:30, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
• Keep For many artists being a participant in ESC is what they're most famous for. Many of the national finals categories should be undeleted as well. ⛐Boivie (talk) 21:17, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:African-American judges. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:43, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|African-American federal judges}}

:Nominator's rationale: Small category that has no expansion or additions in several months, propose deletion Snickers2686 (talk) 03:05, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:African-American judges as probable WP:NARROWCAT. Two of the articles are already there, but Ketanji Brown Jackson and the subcategories are not (although the people represented by the subcategories are). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Merging makes the most sense. As :Category:African-American judges exists it is the obvious merge target. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 04:43, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:532 riots}} to :Category:532 and :Category:530s conflicts

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1046 riots}} to :Category:2nd-millennium riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1046

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1229 riots}} to :Category:2nd-millennium riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1229

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1517 riots}} to :Category:16th-century riots, :Category:1517 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1517

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1637 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1637 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1637

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1648 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1640s crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1648

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1640s riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1650 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1650 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1650

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1662 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1660s crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1662

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1668 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1660s crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1668

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1682 riots}} to :Category:17th-century riots, :Category:1682 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1682

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1710 riots}} to :Category:1710s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1710

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1712 riots}} to :Category:1710s riots, :Category:1712 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1712

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1713 riots}} to :Category:1710s riots, :Category:1713 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1713

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1715 riots}} to :Category:1710s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1715

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1736 riots}} to :Category:1730s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1736

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1741 riots}} to :Category:1740s riots, :Category:1741 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1741

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1742 riots}} to :Category:1740s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1742

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1749 riots}} to :Category:1740s riots, :Category:1749 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1749

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1766 riots}} to :Category:1760s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1766

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1770 riots}} to :Category:1770s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1770

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1771 riots}} to :Category:1770s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1771

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1772 riots}} to :Category:1770s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1772

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1773 riots}} to :Category:1770s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1773

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1780 riots}} to :Category:1780s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1780

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1788 riots}} to :Category:1780s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1788

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1789 riots}} to :Category:1780s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1789

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1791 riots}} to :Category:1790s riots, :Category:1791 crimes, and :Category:Conflicts in 1791

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1793 riots}} to :Category:1790s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1793

:* Propose merging {{clc|Category:1795 riots}} to :Category:1790s riots and :Category:Conflicts in 1795

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:6th-century riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1st-millennium riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1040s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:11th-century riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1046 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1040s crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1220s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:13th-century riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1229 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1220s crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1510s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1630s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1648 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1650s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1662 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1668 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1680s riots}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1736 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1766 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1772 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1780 crimes}}

:* Propose deleting {{clc|Category:1795 crimes}}

:Nominator's rationale: Very thin tree for riots by year in this time frame. Merge up and delete would-be empty categories per WP:NARROW. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:45, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• Support in principle, this is not helpful for easy navigation. Some side notes. What is the reason that sometimes one, sometimes two and sometimes three merge targets are specified? E.g. 1640s has just one merge target. Also, at first glance it seems unwise to confound this nomination with a very partial deletion of crimes years. Maybe better just merge to crimes years now and have a separate discussion about the whole crimes years tree later. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:28, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose Treating recent riots as crimes and categorizing older ones as "conflicts" seems to be a very weird double-standard. And it does not help navigation at all, it just miscategorizes articles. Dimadick (talk) 07:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

::It's not a "double standard", it's simply a question of whether any individual year had enough riots to justify its own year-specific category on size grounds or not. Bearcat (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

• Support in principle, too many very small categories. I'm not overly fond of categorising all riots as crimes, but that is a separate discussion. Categorising them all in the most specific conflict and crime categories would make sense for now, and I agree with upmerging to the broader decade/century/millenium riot categories. Warofdreams talk 22:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Support, these categories are all too small to facilitate navigation. Bearcat (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.