Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1985 Wales v Scotland football match/archive1

{{pagelinks|1985 Wales v Scotland football match}}

{{hatnote|As of {{TODAY}}, {{CURRENTTIME}} (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.}}

{{Featured article tools|1=1985 Wales v Scotland football match}}

:Nominator(s): Hammersfan (talk) 17:09, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

This article is about the World Cup qualifying game between Wales and Scotland in September 1985, at the end of which the Scottish manager Jock Stein collapsed and died. The article is already at GA status, but I done done a significant amount of revising in an effort to get it to FA status, in the hope of getting it onto the Home Page on 10 September this year, which will be the 40th anniversary of the game, and of Stein's passing Hammersfan (talk) 17:09, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this over the coming days. Seems like an awfully interesting topic. I'll preface this by saying I don't know much about football or sports in general but a review is a review and I'll scrutinize anything that needs to be. Departure– (talk) 19:22, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

:Background

::Home Internationals

:* Put a {{main|British Home Championship}} template here - unsure about this point as it's linked later on, but it couldn't hurt.

:::Done

:* Link Home Nations

:::Done - removed duplicate link further down paragraph

:* What is the meaning of "friendlies"? It should be explained so those not familiar with sports can accessibly understand the article.

:::Changed entry to "exhibition games" with note explaining meaning of "friendly"

:* {{green|But, as international football expanded,}} - Starting a sentence like this strikes me as a bit odd. Perhaps replace "but" with "however".

:::Changed

:* The objective "prestige" quality of the British Home Tournament isn't introduced until the part where it "starts to wane".

:::Added additional sentence

:* {{green|The British Home Championship had ended in the 1983–84 season}} - Link the season if an article exists.

:::Done

:* {{green|citing an increasingly congested international fixture list, and waning interest from supporters,}} - As there are only two reasons, with the second one being much longer, I don't think the comma is necessary for comprehension.

:::Removed

:* {{green|The Home Internationals had been a fixture in the calendar for 100 years, and there was some level of disappointment felt by Wales and Northern Ireland over the decision.}} - The "a fixture in the calendar" strikes me as a bit puffery-y. Does the source support that wording?

:::Added line explaining that they had been played every year, with exception of the World Wars, since 1883

::First set of items from {{u|Departure–}} attended to. Hammersfan (talk) 17:28, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

:* {{green|This game, Wales' first win at Hampden for 34 years, saw Scottish complaints over what appeared to be a foul by Welsh striker Mark Hughes on defender Alex McLeish in the buildup to the goal scored by Ian Rush, and a clash between Scotland captain Graeme Souness and Welsh midfielder Peter Nicholas, for which both were booked, and which led to a number of the Welsh team surrounding the Scottish player.}} - This sentence is very long and should be split up.

:::Done

:* {{green|With this in mind, a draw for Scotland would be sufficient to virtually guarantee second place in Group 7 and advance at the very least through to the two legged play-off against the winner of the Oceania qualifying tournament, while a win would likely see them top the group and qualify automatically. For Wales, anything less than a win would end their hopes of qualification unless Spain failed to beat Iceland.}} - No citation here. While the material might be sourced, not having a citation is going to make verifying this information less accessible.

:::Found appropriate citation

:* {{Green|The situation was similar to the qualification for the 1978 World Cup,}} - This should probably be prefaced with "the initial" or some variant - perhaps changing it to "the matchup" - unless I'm missing something.

:::Changed to "the matchup"

:* {{green|while Wales needed a victory to keep their hopes alive for their final game}} - the wording on "keep their hopes alive" strikes me as odd. Can it be changed to some variant of "have a chance"? I don't know if this is a formal MOS point.

:::So altered

::::Second set of items from {{u|Departure–}} attended to Hammersfan (talk) 12:50, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

:Build-up

:* {{green|Scotland meanwhile went into the match}} - Add a comma here.

:::Done

:* {{green|In 1985, the FAW did not have the use of a large national stadium.}} - It might just be a quirk of British English but from across the pond "the use of" seems like it should be replaced with "access to".

:::Done

:* {{green|Ninian Park however had had its capacity cut}} - Add a comma here.

:::Slightly reworded

:* {{green|the interest in the game led to the FAW to name the larger Ninian Park as the venue}} - Whose interest? The audience or the organizers? This should be clarified more.

:::Done

:* {{green| while just two days after Scotland's qualifying game in Iceland, the Heysel Stadium disaster had occurred prior to the 1985 European Cup Final, which had led to English clubs being banned from European competition by UEFA.}} This sequence of events is preceded by a semicolon. Incidents should therefore each have a semicolon or something of the like to distinguish them from each other. Also, more information about the Heysel Stadium disaster would be appreciated.

:::Added semicolons; also added note going into more detail about Heysel - I don't feel this should form part of the text itself, but you're correct that it needs more explanation

:* {{green|although there were discussions over their participation in the 1988 European Championships. Nor did it have any implication for either the Scottish Football Association (SFA) or FAW over their clubs' participation in European competition.}} - Replace that period with a comma and lowercase "nor", or you've got a live and primed fragmentation gren- er, sentence fragment, floating in your FA-to-be.

:::Done

::::Third set of items by {{u|Departure–}} attended to. Hammersfan (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

:Match

:* {{green|in spite of the fact that the day was not so hot as to cause significant perspiration}} - "not so hot" has a double meaning as a metaphor for generally feeling unwell, so this should be rephrased to make it clear the temperature was at fault here.

:::Done

:* {{green|and had lost one of his contact lenses. Not only that, but he did not have a spare pair with him.}} - These shouldn't be two sentences - it could be replaced with something along the lines of "lost one of hs contact lenses, while not having a spare replacement pair."

:::Reworded

:* {{green|Reports were sketchy initially}} - "Sketchy" could likely be replaced with some variant of "disparate", "spotty", "inaccurate", "misleading", etc.

:::Changed to "confused"

:* {{green|BBC Radio commentator Peter Jones (who had no access to the television pictures and was relying on information from other people in the press box) }} - The splits would be better off as consistent. As far as I can tell, this article primarily uses commas and endashes to break up text fragments so one of those should be used here instead of parentheses.

:::Done

:* {{green| the depth of feeling from the Scotland fans was summed up when one said:}} - Who is this "one"? Is it just a random quote from a fan? If so, it shouldn't be described as "summing up" an entire community's feelings.

:::Reworded

:A lot of my prose criticism may have to do with British vs American English but there is objectively plenty to improve as is. Plenty of prose, seems generally well-cited. Once all of this is dealt with I'd be comfortable supporting on prose. Departure– (talk) 19:57, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Last set of items from {{u|Departure–}} attended to. Hammersfan (talk) 16:48, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::I've been busy working on my own article and haven't been checking this, but I'll be doing a spot-check later today before giving my support. Departure– (talk) 14:57, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Since my initial criticism and the cleanup after, a quick spotcheck shows prose about on par with what I'd expect from a featured article, so support on prose only; no prejudice against a second prose check, and a source check still needs to be done. Departure– (talk) 18:50, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text
• Alt text added to images
• Captions need editing for grammar/style
• Amended captions
• File:Daily_Record_Jock_Stein_death.jpg has an incomplete FUR
• Completed as far as possible
• File:Jock_Stein_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1590588.jpg: what's the copyright status of the plaque?
• The photo of the plaque is listed on Wikimedia Commons as being under the CC BY-SA 2.0 licence - this is indicated on the page from which it was taken (https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1590588)
• That's the photo - my question is regarding the plaque itself. To my knowledge engravings are not typically covered by UK freedom of panorama. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:42, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

:There's no graphic one can hold copyright on so to my knowledge it would fall under {{PD-text}}, at least where US copyright law and by extension Wikimedia is concerned. Departure– (talk) 13:11, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

::If it is believed that the photo will cause an issue then it's simplest to just remove it - I have now done this. Hammersfan (talk) 12:31, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Nikkimaria (talk) 04:57, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

:Issues raised by {{u|Nikkimaria}} attended to - Hammersfan (talk) 17:00, 9 April 2025 (UTC)