Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 February 4#multiple and multiply nested refs

I added the article on https://academic.oup.com/jxb/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/jxb/erp043 as an external link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns but don't appear to have added it correctly. Mcljlm (talk) 02:36, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

{{resolved}} Several subsequent edits have formatted the link. Eagleash (talk) 20:24, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Reference help requested.

I made an empty citation by mistake, and couldn't figure out how to delete it. How can I clean that up?

Thanks, 72.70.58.181 (talk) 03:43, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:{{la|Alexander Agassiz}}

:Another editor fixed this just after you posted here. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:28, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Is there? Bertdrunk (talk) 04:16, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:It is possible, {{U|Bertdrunk}} but only a limited group of users ("Oversighters") have the power to do it, and they will only do so if they are persuaded that it is desirable. WP:Oversight tells you about it, and how to request it. --ColinFine (talk) 21:05, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Reference help requested.

Thanks, Asmund.skalevik (talk) 05:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

There was a misunderstanding of the variant names, Modern Steinitz and Steinitz Deferred, therefore I renamed the headers. I apologize any cite errors introduced and hope they will be corrected by someone.

:A bot fixed a ref error at about 1AM (UTC). There weren't any errors introduced in OP's subsequent edits AFAICT and there don't seem to be any error messages showing at present. Eagleash (talk) 13:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

I've been editing Christopher Columbus, and I noticed that under "Relatives | Brothers:" the infobox listed

: Giacomo (also called Diego){{Cite NIE| wstitle=Columbus, Diego (brother) |display=Columbus, Diego. The youngest brother of Christopher Columbus}},

{{talkref}}

As a linguist, I knew that the names Giacomo (Italian) and Diego (Spanish) are related to each other and to the English name James. That seemed relevant to mention, because the alternate names for this son of an Italian working for Spain are not arbitrary, as a pen name can be (e.g., "Mark Twain" for Samuel Clemens). I found good sources at the website [http://www.behindthename.com Behind the Name], on the pages for the three names.

At first I tried to incorporate the refs into an explanatory footnote ({{tl|efn-ua}}) after the ref that was already on the line, but that meant nesting three separate footnotes into the efn— even more complex, nesting within nesting like a matryoshka, if I used {{tl|cite web}}, as I prefer to do. I tried {{tl|refn}} but couldn't get it to work. Finally I settled on sticking them into the ref in-line, after the existing {{tl|cite NIE}} (my addition in boldface):

: {{Cite NIE| wstitle=Columbus, Diego (brother) |display=Columbus, Diego. The youngest brother of Christopher Columbus}} — The names Giacomo and Diego are cognates, along with James, all sharing a common origin. See Behind the Name, Mike Campbell, pages [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Giacomo Giacomo], [http://www.behindthename.com/name/diego Diego], and [http://www.behindthename.com/name/james James]. All retrieved 2017-02-03.

So now it comes out like this:

: Giacomo (also called Diego){{Cite NIE| wstitle=Columbus, Diego (brother) |display=Columbus, Diego. The youngest brother of Christopher Columbus}} — The names Giacomo and Diego are cognates, along with James, all sharing a common origin. See Behind the Name, Mike Campbell, pages [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Giacomo Giacomo], [http://www.behindthename.com/name/diego Diego], and [http://www.behindthename.com/name/james James]. All retrieved 2017-02-03.

{{talkref}}

One other issue here that I've been running into elsewhere as well is citing several pages from the same website using the informative {{tl|cite web}}, without copying the whole citation for each one. Often, as here, the only differences are the url and title parameters. The only template like that that I know of is {{tl|rp}}, which doesn't suit this case.

Is there a better way to handle either of these problems? That is, nesting a ref inside an explanatory footnote, and citing different pages of the same website when the differences are as minimal as they are here? Please {{Tn|Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 06:53, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Thnidu On your first conundrum: it seems that {{tlx|refn}} should work. An experiment to try to obtain something like what I think you were aiming at yielded the following:

{{reflist}}

Notes on the references

{{reflist|group=upper-alpha}}

|text text{{refn|{{Cite NIE| wstitle=Columbus, Diego (brother) |display=Columbus, Diego. The youngest brother of Christopher Columbus}}{{refn|group=upper-alpha|The names Giacomo and Diego are cognates, along with James, all sharing a common origin. {{refn|Behind the Name, Mike Campbell, pages [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Giacomo Giacomo], [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Diego Diego], and [http://www.behindthename.com/name/James James]. All retrieved 2017-02-03.}} }} }}

{{reflist}}

Notes on the references

{{reflist|group=upper-alpha}}

}}

:(We cannot stop Ref 1 coming above Ref 2 as far as I know). The "how-to" page WP:Nesting footnotes suggests some ways to handle nested-reference situations. Hope this helps: Noyster (talk), 19:34, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

File:Russian-Matroshka.jpg

{{od}}

This seems way overcomplicated. Why not this? (efn means explanatory foot note and is equivalent to {refn|group=lower-alpha}):

{{notelist}}

{{reflist}}

|text text{{refn|{{Cite NIE| wstitle=Columbus, Diego (brother) |display=Columbus, Diego. The youngest brother of Christopher Columbus}} }}{{efn|The names Giacomo and Diego are cognates, along with James, all sharing a common origin. {{refn|Behind the Name, Mike Campbell, pages [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Giacomo Giacomo], [http://www.behindthename.com/name/Diego Diego], and [http://www.behindthename.com/name/James James]. All retrieved 2017-02-03.}} }}

{{notelist}}

{{reflist}}

}}

EEng 02:59, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

:{{ping|EEng|Noyster}} Thank you, comrades. I will return to this when I have time. --Thnidu (talk) 07:05, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

I have a problem with a newly registered editor who is using a name almost exactly the same as mine. The account for User:Ryecatcher733 (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ryecatcher733) has basically been created within the past several hours and is editing the Linndale, Ohio in a disruptive manner. Thank you in advance for looking into this. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 08:33, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Reported to WP:AIV; obviously not here as someone with a merely coincidental username. WP:UAA would usually be where I'd take this but AIV is faster in this case since the disruption continues. Nate • (chatter) 10:44, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

::And {{user|Materialscientist}} has blocked that user on those grounds. Nate • (chatter) 10:46, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello! Would somebody like to help me submit a proposal to Phabricator? What I would like to suggest is adding the option "upright" to the editor surface function "embedded file" (for all Wikipedia versions, of course!). I'd be grateful for any help since I'm not familiar to how Phabricator actually works and I admittedly find it a bit confusing for somebody not on the inside – though I do think that the community could in fact benefit from my idea... Hoping for your cooperation, best greetings--Hubon (talk) 13:50, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Reference help requested.

Hi.

ReferenceBot (?)'s message said that

: "On the :Ma-i page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=762425980 your edit] caused a broken reference name ."

I'd correct this, but I can't quite see where the error is. Any chance someone could help me find and correct it, please?

Thanks, Alternativity (talk) 14:43, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

: If you look at [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=762425980 your edit] you will see that the error is reported in ref 12 in that version. Your change had introduced extra quote marks into the reference name. The error has been corrected in subsequent edits. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! - Alternativity (talk) 09:13, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I was working on an article in Sandbox entitled 'Creamware' (the pottery type). It's ready now but I don't know how to move it to Wikipedia - I just moved it to the wrong place Wikipedia:Creamware (???) when I was actually trying to replace the existing STUB ('Creamware') with my new Article. I'm still fairly new to this, so help would be appreciated! Many thanks, JasperWare (talk) 16:34, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Thanks for coming here JasperWare and asking for this to be put right. The page is now safely back in your user space under User:JasperWare/Creamware. Now about the existing article: we generally don't overwrite material other editors have contributed, assuming it's of acceptable quality and in line with policies. The current article looks OK to build on and the material you have compiled would make a valuable major expansion: so could I suggest you try to 'seamlessly' integrate your contribution with what's there?: Noyster (talk), 18:52, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Notifying Nv8200pa and Wetman, the majorest contributors to the present article: Noyster (talk), 20:06, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

I think that articles with the COI tag should be included in this category, as usually conflict of interest editors make articles promotional of something or someone in some way. CoolieCoolster (talk) 16:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Sometimes, but often not. There is an overlap, but they are not the same thing.--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:10, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

I would like to know if it is possible to correct an internal link to another wikipedia page. This is the first task I am attempting as an editor. The link in question (on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSB) is, I guess, automatically generated by enclosing a keyword in brackets: GluR2. This is found in the table titled "Neural and behavioral effects of validated ΔFosB transcriptional targets", derived from Reference 15.

When clicked this takes the reader to an incorrect page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabotropic_glutamate_receptor_2), instead of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRIA2. GRIA2 is the new correct name for the GluR2 subunit of the AMPA receptor (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPA_receptor#Subunit_composition). The confusion has no doubt arisen because this protein, like many others, has been renamed.

If you need confirmation that the link should be to the AMPA receptor subunit, this can be found in reference 15:

Review. Transcriptional mechanisms of addiction: role of DeltaFosB - Nestler EJ, 2008

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607320/

In the discussion of table 3 (the table featured on the Wikipedia page), page 3249:

"Several target genes of DFosB have been established using a candidate gene approach (table 3). One candidate gene is GluR2, an alpha-amino-3-hydroxy- 5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) glutamate receptor subunit (Kelz et al. 1999)."

I suppose this also begs the question - how do you specify a certain page in a link that appears to be automatically generated, when disambiguation must be a common problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JonCollier (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:If I understand correctly, the problem is that two different proteins – Metabotropic glutamate receptor 2 and GRIA2 – have both been abbreviated as "GluR2" in the literature.

:Meanwhile, here on Wikipedia, GluR2 was created as a "redirect" (follow that link for more information about redirects, what they are, and how they work) that points to Metabotropic glutamate receptor 2.

:Two things probably need to be done to fix this:

:#GluR2 needs to be a disambiguation page (again, more information at that link), giving readers who search for GluR2 a choice between the two possible meanings.

:#Places where GluR2 is directly wikilinked in our articles should be converted to piped links to the correct protein article.

:(Assuming I've correctly interpreted the situation.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:07, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

::I've made the disambiguation page. Fixing inbound links looks a bit tricky because the template {{tl|addiction}} links to GluR2 and I'm not sure which one it is supposed to go to. Siuenti (talk) 00:51, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

:::Thanks for noticing this. Based upon the molecular and cell biology wikiproject's style guide, protein names and acronyms as page titles should conform to the recommended UniProt name(s). Based upon the UniProt entries for both proteins on the current DAB page ([http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P42262 glutamate receptor 2] and [http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q14416 metabotropic glutamate receptor 2]), GluR2 should redirect to the GRIA2 gene article whereas mGluR2 should redirect to metabotropic glutamate receptor 2.

:::Also, among the 4 AMPA receptor subunits, it appears that only GluR2 was incorrectly redirected to a metabotropic receptor since GluR1, GluR3, and GluR4 all go to the right articles. The simplest way to fix this would be to redirect GluR2 to GRIA2. Since the link in template:addiction (which I added) and all the article backlinks to GluR2 (which I checked) are about GRIA2, nothing actually needs to be changed or piped to a different article after redirecting this page. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:20, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

{{reflist talk}}