Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 April 1#Chinese Mandarin

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was retarget. (non-admin closure) SSTflyer 12:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin chinese }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_chinese&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_chinese stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin chinese closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin chinese closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin chinese|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin chinese closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Retarget to Mandarin Chinese as {{tlx|R from incorrect capitalization}}. No-brainer, listed for completeness really (was redirected yesterday by XqBot). Si Trew (talk) 23:53, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Comment. I think I have got all of the English-language ones of interest listed before midnight UTC, so listed together on one day! However, there are a lot of Chinese writing and transliterated Chinese redirects that might need to be checked, too. The few I have checked have all been stable at targeting Standard Chinese. Si Trew (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget per nom -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 02:59, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was deleted per WP:CSD#G6 —Kusma (t·c) 09:01, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Wikipedia:Mandarin (language) }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Mandarin_(language)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Wikipedia:Mandarin_(language) stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin (language)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin (language) closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin (language)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin (language) closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin (language)|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin (language) closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

This was a {{tlx|R from move}} to Mandarin Chinese from 30 March 2013 until yesterday. However, it's a WP:CNR. Delete. Si Trew (talk) 23:46, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete WP:XNR -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 20:31, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Germany—Serbia relations }} → :Germany–Serbia relations  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germany%E2%80%94Serbia_relations&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Germany—Serbia_relations stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Germany—Serbia relations|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Germany—Serbia relations closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Germany—Serbia relations|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Germany—Serbia relations closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Germany—Serbia relations|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Germany—Serbia relations closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

A redirect with the wrong dash just invites errors in linking articles. Dicklyon (talk) 23:46, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Alternatively if it's just being kept around for the pre-merge edit history, then move it back to the name that nobody would be tempted to use. Dicklyon (talk) 23:49, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:CHEAP and since it is a {{Tl|R with history}} that is not on an unlikely name. Besides the fact that erroneous linking is not a strong, or even valid, rationale for deleting a redirect since it does not prove the redirect to be a misleading search term ... Seriously, it's just a dash, like the dash the article name currently has, and with the existence of the redirects {{No redirect|German-Serbian relations}}, {{No redirect|Germany - Serbia relations}}, {{No redirect|Germany Serbia relations}}, {{No redirect|Germany – Serbia relations}}, {{No redirect|Germany-Serbia relations}}, {{No redirect|German–Serbian relations}}, {{No redirect|Serbia - Germany relations}}, {{No redirect|Serbia Germany relations}}, {{No redirect|Serbia – Germany relations}}, {{No redirect|Serbia-Germany relations}} and {{No redirect|Serbia–Germany relations}}, that means we already have most other variations covered in case someone types the title in whatever fashion. Also, "...the name that no one would be tempted to use" is actually rationale why a redirect at the edit history's former name, {{No redirect|Germany–Serbia relations/version 2}}, should not exist and should be deleted. Steel1943 (talk) 04:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Addition: I would be okay with deletion only under the following condition: The edit history of the redirect has to be moved to a title that redirects to its current target that is not useless. In other words, I oppose moving the edit history back to {{No redirect|Germany–Serbia relations/version 2}}. (My "{{Tl|R with history}}" concern is significantly stronger than my "WP:CHEAP" concern.) I moved the edit history to this title because as I cited above, basically all other variations of the redirect's target's title were already created. The only other options I can think of off the top of my head would involve lower-casing the second country or upper-casing the word "relations". I looked around for a disambiguator that could apply to the redirect's target (and then move the edit history to that {{Tl|R from unnecessary disambiguation}} title,) but I could not find one that has any precedence for use to redirect to related articles. Steel1943 (talk) 05:21, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete. I basically agree with the nom's arguments: misspelled and miscapitalized redirects are regularly misleading, and with the new, improved search algorithm finally being available, they're often more irritating than a real help. So while the hyphenated ASCII version "Germany-Serbia relations", the valid alternative title "German-Serbian relations", and the same three combinations in the reverse order have a place, the rest should go. IMHO we should even revise our WP:CHEAP policy and consider mass deleting incorrect redirects. --PanchoS (talk) 05:08, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• History merge. Move the edit history from 2009 and prior from Germany—Serbia relations to Germany–Serbia relations. Since Germany–Serbia relations was created in 2010, there wouldn't be anachronistic problems and the history of the article can be properly attributed at the present title. I fairly strongly dislike moving history to random redirects as it makes it next to impossible to track down where the history is. Conducting a history merge would solve this. As far as whether or not the redirect should be deleted after the history merge is completed, I am neutral. While I doubt someone would search in this manner, it's harmless and unambiguous. -- Tavix ^(talk) 05:55, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep. A redirect for something as picky as which dash was used is a nearly ideal use of a redirect. The argument that it's "misleading" because of the new search engine is invalid - 1) redirects do far more than merely support the search engine and 2) not everyone navigates the wiki using the search engine. I could see the argument to history-merge but there is no real point since the current redirect is not ambiguous. Rossami (talk) 06:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::The "point" of a history merge has nothing to do with whether or not the redirect is ambiguous—it's to move the attribution to the correct place. In my rationale, I'm not arguing to delete the current redirect, but I do feel a history merge is needed nevertheless. -- Tavix ^(talk) 14:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was deleted per WP:CSD#G6 —Kusma (t·c) 09:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Wikipedia:Mandarin }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Mandarin&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Wikipedia:Mandarin stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Mandarin|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Mandarin closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Delete. Retargeted from Mandarin Chinese yesterday, but WP:CNR. Si Trew (talk) 23:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete WP:XNR -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:09, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 16:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Chinese Mandarin Chinese }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_Mandarin_Chinese&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Chinese_Mandarin_Chinese stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin Chinese closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin Chinese closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin Chinese|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin Chinese closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Retargeted yesterday, but a bit WP:RFD#D5 nonsense – at least, redundant – really. We don't have French French or English British English; but{{-r|English English}} -> English language in England and {{-r|German German}} -> German Standard German (how very German). Delete. Si Trew (talk) 23:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Comment "French French" is a real concept, either as French people from France, or French language spoken in France, since there are ethnic French from outside of France, and French dialects that are not from France, so they do make sense, indeed Wiktionary considers to as a proper way to define words only found in French in France. English English and German German both would suffer the same ambiguity as French French in distinguishing ethnic from linguistic. All three should be disambiguation pages.
  "Chinese Mandarin Chinese" supposes that "Mandarin Chinese" dialects exist outside of China. Which may be the case if you consider Singaporean local dialect of Mandarin as something that exists, and Taiwanese Mandarin Chinese does indeed exist.
  -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:27, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep WP:CHEAP per Taiwanese Mandarin Chinese, dialect of Mandarin language that is from China, and not Taiwan, or Singapore. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:27, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• I'm aware of what it's trying to do, but actually the target does not mention "Chinese Mandarin" at all, and neither does Mandarin Chinese, so it is at least WP:RFD#D2 confusing. Nothing actually links through it. 70.51, even if you don't want to delete it, are you sure you don't want to retarget it back d to to where it was? Si Trew (talk) 08:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• There shouldn't be much confusion, as it is the typical national Mandarin found in the PRC ("China"), instead of regional ones. A hatnote can link back to Mandarin Chinese. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Off-topic, but I think you have a case for German, since {{-r|German people}}, unusually, is an R to the article at Germans whereas German is a DAB, none of which quite says "people from present-day Germany", the closest we have being "citizens of the Federal Republic of Germany under German nationality law". It would be absurd to target "English English" to anything other than the language, though, because uses of "English" in e.g. American English and Australian English always mean the language and never the people, unlike e.g. "Irish" in {{-r|American Irish}} or {{-r|Australian Irish}} which mean the people. Si Trew (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment. I didn't think to look at {{-r|Chinese Chinese}}, which is red, as is {{-r|Chinese Chinese language}}. I don't know what that tells us, if anything. What's the difference between Chinese Mandarin Chinese and {{-r|Standard Mandarin Chinese}} (→ Standard Chinese)? Si Trew (talk) 10:50, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Since you've pointed out other forms that do exist, the non-existence of these doesn't seem to say much. Chinese Chinese would suffer the same ambiguity as I pointed out above for English English and French French. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• As those redirects have just been RfD nominated, we'll have to see the results first to determine that. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Which redirects? RfD nominated where? They're not on today's log. Si Trew (talk) 04:02, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• "Standard Mandarin Chinese" is nominated on this day page, by yourself. Others are also nominated with it across this day and the next day (April 2) -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep sounds redundant, but it could theoretically be used to distinguish between the Standard language of the mainland and that of Taiwan or Singapore or just in reference to China in the abstract sense..--Prisencolin (talk)
• Keep per Pirsencolin. Rossami (talk) 06:50, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) SSTflyer 13:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Standard Mandarin language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Standard_Mandarin_language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Standard_Mandarin_language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Standard mandarin }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Standard_mandarin&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Standard_mandarin stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Standard mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard mandarin closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Standard mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard mandarin closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Standard mandarin|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard mandarin closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Standard Mandarin Chinese language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Standard_Mandarin_Chinese_language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Standard_Mandarin_Chinese_language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Standard Mandarin Chinese }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Standard_Mandarin_Chinese&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Standard_Mandarin_Chinese stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin Chinese|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin Chinese closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Modern Standard Mandarin }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Modern_Standard_Mandarin&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Modern_Standard_Mandarin stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Modern Standard Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Modern Standard Mandarin closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Modern Standard Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Modern Standard Mandarin closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Modern Standard Mandarin|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Modern Standard Mandarin closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Standard Mandarin (linguistics) }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Standard_Mandarin_(linguistics)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Standard_Mandarin_(linguistics) stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin (linguistics)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin (linguistics) closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin (linguistics)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin (linguistics) closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Standard Mandarin (linguistics)|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Standard Mandarin (linguistics) closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

These have all been at this target since 18 Jan 2011 (a similar bot-move to sort out double redirects by XqBot) and were not changed by the move of Mandarin Chinese to Mandarin Chinese (group) yesterday. (For details of that see #Mandarin (linguistics), below). I'm listing these mainly just to say so, and involve other editors who may be otherwise unaware of this discussion – although perhaps some should be retargeted, or deleted as WP:XY: I've no opinion (yet). Si Trew (talk) 22:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Keep all of them targeted to Standard Chinese (though Standard Mandarin (linguistics) could go). Anything with the word standard in the title refers to Standard Mandarin=Standard Chinese, not the Mandarin group of dialects. —  AjaxSmack  13:41, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delist "popularize mandarin" as it should be discussed in the discussion above this one, instead of this one. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:03, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep others per AjaxSmack -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 03:03, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep all. I could see an argument to retarget but the use of "Standard" in the titles makes the current target more plausible in my mind. (I concur with 70...'s argument that "popularize mandarin" should be moved to the discussion above. Even though it wasn't previously discussed, it's a capitalization variant and the issues are more similar to that title than to the other ones here.) Rossami (talk) 06:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• Note: I have moved "Popoularize mandarin" to the discussion directly above this one. -- Tavix ^(talk) 14:34, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep all that are still in the nomination. All of these redirect titles refer unambiguously to the standard spoken variety of Chinese and Mandarin, which is what the target discusses. Deryck C. 16:57, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was retarget. --BDD (talk) 16:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Chinese, Mandarin }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese,_Mandarin&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Chinese,_Mandarin stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Chinese, Mandarin language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese,_Mandarin_language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Chinese,_Mandarin_language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Chinese, Mandarin language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese, Mandarin language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin Chinese language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_Chinese_language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_Chinese_language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin Chinese language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Chinese language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin Chinese language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Chinese language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin Chinese language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Chinese language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Chinese Mandarin }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_Mandarin&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Chinese_Mandarin stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Chinese Mandarin|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Chinese Mandarin closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

• Like many others listed today (see #Mandarin (linguistics)), these all targeted Mandarin Chinese until yesterday, and were retargeted by a bot for the same reason as those (i.e. page moved, new redirect retargeted, bot fixed double redirect, page moved back over it). Retarget back; but I hesitate to do so boldly. Si Trew (talk) 22:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget "Chinese, Mandarin" and "Chinese, Mandarin language" and "Mandarin Chinese language" to Mandarin Chinese -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Disambiguate "Chinese Mandarin" to the apparachniks of Communist China, the functionaries of Imperial China, and the language -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• The disambiguation page Mandarin could serve that function. -- Tavix ^(talk) 05:57, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Agree, retarget to the DAB page at Mandarin as {{tlx|R from ambiguous page}}. Si Trew (talk) 10:39, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Revert to Mandarin Chinese since that page is decently hat-noted but the argument to retarget to the disambiguation page isn't bad either. Rossami (talk) 07:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• Revert to Mandarin Chinese as a closer topic match. Deryck C. 16:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin vs Other }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_vs_Other&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_vs_Other stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin vs Other|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin vs Other closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin vs Other|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin vs Other closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin vs Other|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin vs Other closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Well, this was a redirect to Mandarin Chinese from 2008 until yesterday, but perhaps it's WP:XY by its own definition. Si Trew (talk) 22:31, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Weak retarget to Varieties of Chinese, but the "vs" is a bit, well, adversarial.
• Delete. Not used in article space, stats below noise level. History shows it was {{diff|16542998|oldid=5714180|label=merged way back in September 2004}}, but nothing seems to be using it nowadays. Si Trew (talk) 14:15, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete, unlikely search query. Since "[mandarin" is currently is a dab page, "mandarin vs other" could mean "Mandarin Oranges vs other oranges" or something--Prisencolin (talk) 08:33, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete - Using the "vs Other" wording is frankly confusing, and I agree with the above arguments. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 12:26, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep. Redirects this old were not handled the same way by the edit-history engine. Links may no longer be in the article-space but they may be in history and may exist externally. The likelihood of confusion with oranges seems remote to me. Rossami (talk) 07:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• The argument that "links may be in history and may exist externally" basically says, we can never delete or move anything, nor substantially move or delete any content within an article. You can make the same argument for changing a section name, for example, which is why we have WP:RSECT and MOS:LINK2SECT, although they don't seem to be widely followed.
  If external links wish to have a link to a particular version of an article, they should use a permalink; we are not responsible for the maintenance of external websites, but one way of checking whether links are in practice followed from external websites is to check the stats.
  I do think – and have said so before – that would be useful to bring up a historical version of an article that had its links and transclusions piped to versions that were extant at that time (recursively), a sort of WikiWikiWayback. While this would still not cope with deleted pages (would it?) it would make tracing the history of some article cluster a lot easier. I suppose one could write a tool to do this. Si Trew (talk) 04:37, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
• That's a strawman. The "links in history" does not mean we can never delete, only that we ought not to delete without good reason - a reason that outweighs the harm created by linkrot. While you can wish that external links would use a permalink, they do not. Regardless, that wouldn't solve the problem I was trying to describe. Even a permalink still refers to an actual title. If you delete that title, the external link breaks. And, by the way, the stats engines are known to do a poor job of finding external traffic. Too many ways of reading our content do not trigger the stats trackers. Rossami (talk) 05:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete. Other than what? A bird enthusiast could want a comparison between the Mandarin duck and other ducks, for example. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete. Other what? Oranges? Steel1943 (talk) 17:54, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete "other" is a bit vague --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:21, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:49, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Nike Elite }} → :Nike, Inc.  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nike_Elite&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Nike_Elite stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Nike Elite|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Elite closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Nike Elite|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Elite closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Nike Elite|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Elite closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Nike Tempo shorts }} → :Nike, Inc.  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nike_Tempo_shorts&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Nike_Tempo_shorts stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo shorts|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo shorts closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo shorts|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo shorts closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo shorts|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo shorts closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Nike Tempo }} → :Nike, Inc.  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nike_Tempo&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Nike_Tempo stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Nike Tempo|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Nike Tempo closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

{{oldrfdlist|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 February 12#Tn air|Delete all}}

Delete all per WP:RFD#D2 confusing, WP:REDLINK, still not at target. Si Trew (talk) 22:05, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Speedy delete WP:G4: "Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion." -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• The situation is different enough now that material is added, so I no longer think speedy deletion is appropriate. As such, I shall remain neutral. -- Tavix ^(talk) 02:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Hmm, for some reason I discounted that. Will do. Si Trew (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• I disagree. These links redirect to Nike, Inc. because there is currently no separate article about Nike sportswear in popular culture. When I find good enough sources I plan to add a paragraph or two describing Nike Elite, Nike Tempo etc, and their relevance to today's popular clique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osama57 (talk • contribs) 02:34, 2 April 2016
• Well you would, you created them, but I haven't a WP:CRYSTALBALL. It would make more sense to create the content first and the redirects afterwards. Si Trew (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• See updated redirect from Nike Tempo to Nike, Inc.#Street fashions. This now contains a description of what these shorts actually are, and their relevance to modern fashion. More sources will be added when they can be found.
  Peace and love - Ossie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osama57 (talk • contribs)
• I've withdrawn {{-r|Nike Tempo}} and {{-r|Nike Tempo shorts}} as they are mentioned at the new section, and marked those as {{tlx|R to section}}. {{-r|Nike Elite}} is still not mentioned at the target, though. Si Trew (talk) 08:55, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• It is now. Nike Elite is apparently a brand of basketball socks with unique padded soles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osama57 (talk • contribs)
• Keep all. Redirects from a non-notable child topic to a more notable parent are routine and often encouraged since it discourages the creation of inappropriate content. It is usually helpful but not strictly necessary that the child topic be specifically mentioned in the parent article. There is no real potential for confusion here and no better target suggests itself. Rossami (talk) 07:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::They are also routinely deleted on the grounds that it is WP:RFD#D2 confusing or at least disappointing to type an exact phrase and find no information on it; a reader may reasonably (but wrongly) assume there must be some difference between "Nike Elite" and plain "Nike Inc." in their auto-populated list. Si Trew (talk) 18:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{yo|SimonTrew}} Now that {{-r|Nike Elite}} is mentioned, would you want to withdraw the entire nomination? -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::Yep, withdrawn. Si Trew (talk) 18:42, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:49, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Version 2 }} → :Mega64  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Version_2&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Version_2 stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Version 2|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Version 2 closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Version 2|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Version 2 closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Version 2|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Version 2 closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Several encyclopedic subjects, most dealing with software, have "Version 2"s. The redirect's title in relation to its target is that it seems that its second season was called a "version" instead. This redirect is too ambiguous to be useful. Steel1943 (talk) 18:10, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete as WP:RFD#D1 hinders search per WP:XY. Si Trew (talk) 20:00, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete as vague --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Strong delete lacks consideration that there is a world out there beyond Mega64 -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:33, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

::There's a World version W5. Si Trew (talk) 14:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete. This could refer to any number of things. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete - unclear connection between redirect and target. C679 10:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 12:26, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget to Version 2.0 as a closely related concept. (C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!) -- Tavix ^(talk) 15:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::Closely related to what concept? It's the name of an album. Si Trew (talk) 18:53, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:*I'd say that the "2.0" in that title is so distinct that it is very unlikely that anyone would look it up without the ".0". Steel1943 (talk) 20:25, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Maybe, but I wanted to offer an alternative to deletion, especially since search results for "version 2" are clogged with unrelated redirects. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::::Yeah, I noticed that the search function now does autocorrect ... that must have been implemented within the last month or two. Steel1943 (talk) 21:13, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:::::What do you mean, it does autocorrect? I searched, for example, for grante and got results for things with "Grante" highlighted, even though it asked at the top of the search "Did you mean grande (linked as another search)? It would be too far, if you ask me, automatically to assume that a typo was a typo for a particular thing (in the absence of an exact title match e.g. an {{tlx|R from misspelling}}) – for example to assume I meant grande and not granite. Si Trew (talk) 04:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete as it could be Version 2 of any book, song, theory, religion, work of art, haircut, recipe, ... —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was retarget to Mandarin Chinese. --BDD (talk) 16:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin Language }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_Language&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_Language stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin Language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Language closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin Language|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Language closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin Language|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin Language closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 
• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin (language) }} → :Standard Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_(language)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_(language) stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin (language)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (language) closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin (language)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (language) closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin (language)|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (language) closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

See #Mandarin (linguistics) below. Si Trew (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Retarget to Mandarin Chinese, which is an overview of the Mandarin languages in China. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget the links to Mandarin Chinese.--TheLeopard (talk) 19:29, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Retarget to Mandarin Chinese -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:34, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Move Mandarin Chinese to Mandarin language. The title should point out that the page is on languages, just like Hausa language or Japanese language. "Chinese" can refer to a nationality, people, culture, ethnic group or language. Lysimachi (talk) 20:36, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

::{{ping|Lysimachi}}, this isn't the place to request article moves, there's a move discussion going on here that you may want to be aware of.--Prisencolin (talk) 18:13, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

::{{ping|Prisencolin}} it's perfectly reasonable for someone to suggest remedial action to a redirect by moving something over it, or by moving it without leaving a redirect. Since this particular move request involves neither the source nor the existing target, though, it is moot. Si Trew (talk) 05:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

::I get that, but it would be more effective if a real move request were made on the talk page--Prisencolin (talk) 05:37, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was procedural close as WP:TRAINWRECK. No prejudice against more targeted nominations for individuals or batches from those named below. --BDD (talk) 16:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services }} → :EBSCO Information Services  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multiple_redirects_to_EBSCO_Information_Services&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Multiple_redirects_to_EBSCO_Information_Services stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Multiple redirects to EBSCO Information Services closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

almost all [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/EBSCO_Information_Services&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 the redirects] are either general phrases or the names/name variants of specific services the company provides. Most [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=200806060000&limit=50&contribs=user&target=Elonka&namespace=0&tagfilter= were created] by User:Elonka in a short time frame.

• America: History & Life, America: History and Life, Art Index (which even was an unrelated article before), Art Abstracts, Art Full Text, Clinical Reference Systems, Criminal Justice Abstracts, Education Abstracts, Health Source, Historical Abstracts, History Reference Center, NetLibrary, Primary Search, Professional Development Collection, USP DI are general phrases/terms, and the company is surely not a synonym for them (even if their management thinks otherwise). Thus they are probably subject to {{tl|db-spam}}/{{tl|db-error}}.
• The majority of service references are not even mentioned in the article, thus their encyclopedic value is questionable at best.
• The 3 entries with "Complete" are borderline case: they do look like official service names but are generic enough to be considered general phrases. — Vano 16:59, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Elonka&oldid=713040679 User_talk:Elonka#April_2016] and User_talk:Headbomb#Speedy_deletions_of_redirects_to_EBSCO_Information_Services for prior discussion. — Vano 17:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• No. They are databases that are run or owned by EBSCO, but they are still well-known under their own names; see [https://lib.stanford.edu/art-full-text this], for instance, for a clear example that doesn't even mention EBSCO though it leads there. They are not "general phrases"; they are proper names.

  In addition, you tagged Elonka's talk page and warned them for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Elonka&diff=713040679&oldid=712116015 "disruptive editing"], which is a ridiculous charge--and for redirects made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_Reference_Center&action=history in 2008]? I'll ping {{U|Randykitty}} as well, in case one admin telling you you're wrong isn't enough. And {{U|Headbomb}}, who has forgotten more about Wikipedia during their 138,162 edits than I will ever learn. Drmies (talk) 17:14, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• It doesn't matter when the edits were made, the result is all the same. Before {{U|Headbomb}} reverted my nominations, I coudn't imagine that someone would possibly consider them non-obvious, even less so controversial. Now that I know they turned out to be such, let's close this side topic. Ivan Pozdeev (talk) 17:29, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Yes it does matter. Warning someone, in this case an admin who has been here since 2005, with a template, for a valid redirect they made six years ago? If you want to close it, apologize to her, if only out of common courtesy. Drmies (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• I don't know (or care) if she's an admin; even if she is, that doesn't mean she never, ever, made mistakes; and I only posted with a template (followed by a due manual explanation) because Twinkle doesn't allow to do otherwise so I assumed it's the normal way (after all, Twinkle is widely used by the admin corps, so it's to be expected it's being kept current with the community's policies. Admins can't be bothered to go all the way through the normal UI for routine tasks, now can they?). Ivan Pozdeev (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Will you please stop digging? Do I have to say in all-caps [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Elonka&diff=713040679&oldid=712116015 THAT YOU PLACED A DUMB-ASS WARNING FOR DISRUPTIVE EDITING ON THE TALK PAGE OF AN EDITOR OVER GOOD-FAITH REDIRECTS MADE EIGHT YEARS AGO?] That wasn't Twinkle: it was you. Sheesh. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep all per Dmries essentially. These are academic databases and services, not 'generic phrases', many notable on their own, and all likely search terms. And they are certainly not spam, nor created by mistake. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:20, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• The fact they are "likely search terms" is irrelevant. WP is not a free SEO service for third parties, it only includes entities that are notable enough. Ivan Pozdeev (talk) 17:37, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Please do read WP:N: "Conversely, when notable topics are not given standalone pages, redirection pages and disambiguation can be used to direct readers searching for such topics to the appropriate articles and sections within them (see also Wikipedia:Redirects are cheap)." Notability does not apply to redirects in the way it applies to articles. Drmies (talk) 17:42, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep all Per the above. Nothing promotional here. Many of these databases are mentioned in the "abstracting and indexing services" sections of our articles on academic journals. All of these databases are well known in their respective fields and most are notable in their own right and should eventually get their own articles. Until that time, a redirect to EBSCO is warranted without any doubt. --Randykitty (talk) 17:47, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• There's SNOW in the air! --Randykitty (talk) 08:48, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Well, it can stay in the air. None of {{-r|America: History & Life}}, {{-r|America: History and Life}}, {{-r| Art Abstracts}}, {{-r|Art Full Text}}, {{-r|Clinical Reference Systems}}, {{-r|Criminal Justice Abstracts}}, {{-r|Education Abstracts}}, {{-r|Health Source}}, {{-r|Historical Abstracts}}, and on and on to {{-r|Whitston Publishing}}, is at the target, and normally that is regarded as WP:RFD#D2 confusing, so in principle I would say delete.
  However, I don't believe it's reasonable to create an open-ended nomination listing a dynamically-generated "What Links Here" result. It makes no sense for all kinds of reasons, but if nothing else, deleting or retargeting the redirects will invalidate that result. Without them being tagged for RfD, how is anyone supposed to be aware that they are being discussed?
  The redirects for discussion should be listed properly so that they can be discussed properly. Procedural close as an ill-formed nomination. I'm quite happy to nominate each of them separately. Si Trew (talk) 10:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment one solution might be to make a List of EBSCO publications and add the titles there. But we don't have similar lists for other publishers (that I could find). Si Trew (talk) 14:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment No need to create yet another useless list. I've included the databases listed above in the article on EBSCO Information Services. If any others are missing, they can be listed there, too. --Randykitty (talk) 14:46, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Close this discussion as too large to manage as a single bulk discussion. You could break out the titles that explicitly reference EBSCO in the title as a single entity (where I would argue to keep because redirects from a non-notable child title to a more notable parent are not only allowed but often encouraged) but many of the others have plausible retargets that deserve individualized discussion. Rossami (talk) 07:27, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was converted to article by User:Imfeldic (thanks!). (non-admin closure) by Si Trew (talk) 09:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Conjugal dictatorship }} → :Imelda Marcos  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conjugal_dictatorship&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Conjugal_dictatorship stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Conjugal dictatorship|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal dictatorship closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Conjugal dictatorship|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal dictatorship closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Conjugal dictatorship|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal dictatorship closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]

• {{no redirect|1 = Conjugal Dictatorship }} → :Imelda Marcos  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conjugal_Dictatorship&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Conjugal_Dictatorship stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Conjugal Dictatorship|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal Dictatorship closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Conjugal Dictatorship|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal Dictatorship closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Conjugal Dictatorship|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Conjugal Dictatorship closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]

Delete WP:REDLINK -- this redirects to Mrs. Marcos, but the dictator of the Philippines at the time was her husband Ferdinand Marcos, so the term refers to them as a couple and not her alone, either this should be deleted as REDLINK or retargetted to her husband's terms in office. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 06:27, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:RFD#D2 confusing per WP:XY, and at neither target. Si Trew (talk) 20:35, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep - New article. Imeldific (talk) 04:41, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment {{user|Imeldific}} the creator of these redirects, converted conjugal dictatorship into an article -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:11, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep since the old redirect has now been turned into a New Article with citations that is improving a notable topic. BushelCandle (talk) 05:14, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = 20?? }} → :21st century  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=20%3F%3F&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=20?? stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:20??|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#20?? closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:20??|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#20?? closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:20??|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#20?? closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Doesn't make any sense. —Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 06:10, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete, since 2100 is part of the 21st century. SSTflyer 06:23, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete - I think this term is known as a form of [http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/20xx this video game related meme]. The redirect isn't proper and isn't helpful. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

:*As I created that and I'm pretty sure I've never heard of that meme, pretty sure it's not related :-) Andrew Gray (talk) 15:35, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete, though the first thing I thought of was Twenty Questions, that's just m crossword head on. Si Trew (talk) 16:59, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Meh. No particular opinion on keeping this or not; I created it ten years ago but I've no particular recollection as to why. 20xx, 20??, 20-- are all fairly generic placeholders for "a year starting with 20", which I agree doesn't perfectly map to "21st century" but is fairly close to it for most practical purposes. Andrew Gray (talk) 15:35, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete as implausible, both for "a year starting with 20" and for anything else.—Anomalocaris (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete as vague --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = The next millennium }} → :3rd millennium  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_next_millennium&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=The_next_millennium stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:The next millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#The next millennium closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:The next millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#The next millennium closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:The next millennium|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#The next millennium closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

As we are currently in the 3rd millennium, so the "next millennium" would be the 4th millennium. That aside: same problem as Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 March 31#This year. These type of redirects go against WP:RELTIME, though as a MOS guideline it isn't really applicable to this. Varies with other calenders (e.g. Hebrew calendar and North Korean calendar). It will go out of date eventually. —Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 06:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Delete as WP:RFD#D2 confusing per WP:XY. A millennium doesn't have even to stat or end with a year ending 000; it's any thousand-year period. Si Trew (talk) 17:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:XY and my arguments at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_March_31#This_year. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:07, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete: avoid relative time; which calendar's millennium? —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = This millennium }} → :3rd millennium  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=This_millennium&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=This_millennium stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:This millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This millennium closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:This millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This millennium closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:This millennium|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This millennium closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]
• {{no redirect|1 = Current millennium }} → :3rd millennium  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Current_millennium&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Current_millennium stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Current millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current millennium closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Current millennium|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current millennium closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Current millennium|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current millennium closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Same problem as Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 March 31#This year. These type of redirects go against WP:RELTIME, though as a MOS guideline it isn't really applicable to this. Varies with other calenders (e.g. Hebrew calendar and North Korean calendar). "This" doesn't always mean "current". It will go out of date eventually. Age (1 million years), epoch (10 million years), era (100 million years), and eon (500 million years) don't seem to have any redirects of this type (bar current era which goes to common era).—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 05:52, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• delete per WP:RFD#D2 as WP:XY. Si Trew (talk) 17:05, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:XY and my arguments at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_March_31#This_year. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:08, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete: avoid relative time; which calendar's millennium? —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:37, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

{{oldrfdlist|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 February 19#This Year}}

• {{no redirect|1 = This century }} → :21st century  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=This_century&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=This_century stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:This century|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This century closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:This century|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This century closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:This century|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#This century closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ]
• {{no redirect|1 = Current century }} → :21st century  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Current_century&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Current_century stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Current century|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current century closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Current century|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current century closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Current century|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Current century closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Same problem as Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 March 31#This year. These type of redirects go against WP:RELTIME, though as a MOS guideline it isn't really applicable to this. Varies with other calenders (e.g. Hebrew calendar and North Korean calendar). "This" doesn't always mean "current". It will go out of date; though I don't have a crystal ball, I have faith this encyclopedia will still be around in 85 or so years. —Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 05:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Retarget current century to Age of Electricity per WP:XY. Si Trew (talk) 16:47, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:XY and my arguments at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_March_31#This_year. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:08, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete: avoid relative time; which century? In the Western calendar this is the 21st century and the 2000s; In the Jewish calendar this is the 58th century and the 5700s. —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was retarget. --BDD (talk) 16:33, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Spinning records }} → :Disc jockey  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spinning_records&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Spinning_records stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Spinning records|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Spinning records closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Spinning records|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Spinning records closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Spinning records|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Spinning records closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Should this be retargeted to Spinnin' Records as {{tl|R from misspelling}} instead? SSTflyer 03:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Comment records also spin on record players, as they are played; and it can refer to etching record masters out in a studio -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

::Could also refer to the history of thread spinning, or world records in plate-spinning, etc. But I'd guess this was primary - what about spinning discs, spinning disks? Si Trew (talk) 16:53, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Retarget per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:36, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 16:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Mandarin (linguistics) }} → Mandarin Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mandarin_(linguistics)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mandarin_(linguistics) stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Mandarin (linguistics)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (linguistics) closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin (linguistics)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (linguistics) closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Mandarin (linguistics)|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Mandarin (linguistics) closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Nominate for deletion, it's not exactly clear what this would point to (other than a disambiguation page). Prisencolin (talk) 04:50, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Keep the target article serves as an overview article, so acceptable instead of a dab page. Ofcourse, if you have a dab page, we could retarget there. It should not be deleted. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:26, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment I fixed the target in the nom. Si Trew (talk) 16:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment {{-r|Mandarin (language)}} and Mandarin Language > Standard Chinese. I'm tempted to list those, there might well be a good reason why they go to a different target, but it is, er, nonobvious. {{-r|Mandarin language}} too. Si Trew (talk) 16:31, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• DAB these, the ones below, and the ones I mentioned. Si Trew (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Ah, the recent history of the redirects I mentioned shows they've been retargeted yesterday. This is because of a move of Mandarin Chinese to Mandarin Chinese (group) by the nominator, leaving Mandarin Chinese as an {{tlx|R from move}} for a duration of around {{frac|12|3|4}} hours ({{diff|712894314|oldid=712800539|label=diff here}}) until it was moved back after a WP:RM by administrator User:Anthony Appleyard. During this time, I presume, it was retargeted to Standard Chinese (that doesn't show in the history, because the history will have been overwritten when the article was moved back). In that twelve hours, a bot "fixed" the double redirects, so that when {{-r|Mandarin Chinese (group)}} was moved back they were left targeting Standard Chinese.
  Note that Talk:Mandarin (linguistics) has the RFD tag and not the R itself, which is fully protected and still functioning as a redirect. Si Trew (talk) 19:21, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• The comment in this page's edit history refers to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Chinese)#Language.2Fdialect_NPOV, but that section no longer exists: I guess its content is now in Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Chinese)#Languages or dialects. Si Trew (talk) 23:08, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Odd. The Talk:Mandarin_Chinese#Requested move 31 March 2016 started at 18:39 on 31 March by User:Prisencolin, but the actual move was done by Prisencolin at 07:39 that morning and moved back at 20:25. Am I missing something here, that it was moved before the move request discussion was started (let alone any consensus reached)? In the meantime, there's about 50 things that are targeting Mandarin Chinese (group), mainly because it was in {{tlx|Languages of China}}, I suspect. I've restored that template to how it was before Prisencolin's edits of 31 March, but the pages will all have to be purged before the links disappear. Si Trew (talk) 00:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• Delete Mandarin (linguistics), Mandarin (language) and Mandarin Chinese (group). These are unlikely search terms and there is no page history worth preserving. The first was needed for a while to prevent people from moving the article back to that location, but I doubt that will happen any more. — kwami (talk) 01:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• It's the mess you created when you moved all the Chinese languages articles around a few years ago. At any rate WP:CHEAP they function properly, it is a language topic, a linguistics topic, and a group of dialects, so the redirects work properly -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:39, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• This isn't the thread where it's being nominated but Keep Mandarin Chinese (group), as someone might type that into the search bar to specifically distinguish the family from the standard form(s).--Prisencolin (talk) 08:36, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

:::It's not nominated anywhere. I put it up for CSD but then removed it; lots of things were pointing at it, since {{diff|71280270|oldid=712802600|label=on 31 March you modified}} the {{tlx|Chinese language}} navbox (reverted {{diff|713110961&oldid=712802709|label=here on 2 April}} by someone else) and {{tlx|Languages of China}}, {{diff|712884081|oldid=712883998|label=diff here}}, that I reverted. So any spike in page hits at the start of April is unrepresentative. Si Trew (talk) 19:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

• Keep (including the ones that Kwami tried to shoehorn in immediately above). It's a plausible alternative to the article title and creates little potential for confusion. I might expect the "linguistics" title to be a more technical discussion of grammar or history but until such an article is created, the current parent title is sufficient. Rossami (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was retarget to North China (disambiguation). --BDD (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• {{no redirect|1 = Northern Chinese }} → :Mandarin Chinese  (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northern_Chinese&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-03-02&end=2016-03-31&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Northern_Chinese stats])     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Northern Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Northern Chinese closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Northern Chinese|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Northern Chinese closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Northern Chinese|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Northern Chinese closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Delete or re-target. Prisencolin (talk) 04:58, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

• Comment {{ping|Prisencolin}} can you fill out these RFDs properly? Both your nominations are missing the target information. -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:27, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• I don't have any particular target in mind, so I just left it blank. I'm not sure there's some other way of doing this?--Prisencolin (talk) 06:00, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• It doesn't matter what target you have in mind, it only matters what target it had before you touched it, per the instructions -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 06:07, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Disambiguate the linguistics people seem to think all terms only mean the linguistics meanings, without any other meaning (as can be seen elsewhere, where there are cultural and ethnic meanings). This could refer to the language, culture, people or adjectivally to the region -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:29, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Disambiguate given the multiple meanings CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 10:05, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• DAB with those in the listing above too. Considering that e.g. {{-r|mandarin language}} goes to a different target, there seems no clear primary topic of Mandarin Chinese or Standard Chinese for a layperson. Si Trew (talk) 17:14, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Comment target was changed yesterday, with other redirects to Mandarin Chinese/Standard Chinese, see #Mandarin (linguistics), immediately above. Si Trew (talk) 17:26, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
• Keep "Northern Chinese" is a reasonably common synonym for Mandarin. — kwami (talk) 01:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
• That is not the only meaning. This mess is created by considering only linguistics, instead of considering all uses -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:19, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

::*Disambiguate the language and the people, at least. The "standard" way we manage that for e.g. the Elbonians is to have Elbonian language and Elbonian people as topics, and Elbonian as a DAB between them (and other things if necessary). (In many other languages this wouldn't be necessary because a grammatical marker would indicate which.)

:::We have {{-r|Northern Chinese people}} -> Northern and southern China, but neither Northern Chinese language nor Northern Chinese languages – that's no problem because we could either create them as redirects and DAB via that, if we wanted the sttruggle to continue, or just include this target directly in the DAB. For consistency, if these targets discuss only language aspects they would be better to follow convention and have "language" or "languages" in their titles, but my consensometer indicates that that is unlikely to happen. Si Trew (talk) 07:56, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• Disambiguate with links to North China for the region, Northern and southern China for the people and Mandarin Chinese for the languages. —  AjaxSmack  13:57, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

::I've put those entries on a draft below the redirect, although I prefer the redirect {{-r|Northern Chinese people}} over Northern and southern China. Si Trew (talk) 15:58, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• Disambiguate - The reasons given above are compelling. The language is not the same thing as the people, and neither are the same as the area per se (like the geographic nature of the various places within). CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 12:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

::Well we don't have a Geography of North China or Geography of Northern China, but we do have North China, a geopolitical article, which {{-r|North Chinese}] redirects to. That article has See Also to North China Plain, Northeast China, Northern and southern China (and something else)... no doubt there are other candidates to add at the DAB. There are some other "Northern Chinese" titles but they are WP:PTMs. North China (disambiguation) currently ledes with "Northern China or North China may refer to"... Si Trew (talk) 05:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

• Retarget to North China (disambiguation) and tidy that up as necessary. Northern China (disambiguation) currently targets North China and with this being open I hesitate to retarget it boldly; see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016_April_5#Northern China (disambiguation), which I've cross-reffed to here. Si Trew (talk) 05:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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