Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 16#MOS:ARABIC

• {{no redirect|1 = Aogus }} → :Among Us#Continued popularity  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Aogus|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Aogus closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Aogus|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Aogus closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Aogus|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Aogus closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Implausible misspelling of the Amogus meme (itself a satirical misspelling). ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 19:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete: This does not help us in any way. —AFreshStart (talk) 20:17, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete. Google tells me this is an Irish family name, an electronics retailer in Singapore, a PC case, and a Chinese company whose website is currently broken. None of these appear notable. Thryduulf (talk) 23:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per Thryduulf's findings --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:35, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and Thryduulf. Huggums537 (talk) 05:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Draft:Jonas Huff }} → :McRib  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Draft:Jonas Huff|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Draft:Jonas Huff closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Draft:Jonas Huff|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Draft:Jonas Huff closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Draft:Jonas Huff|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Draft:Jonas Huff closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Old junk with no useful history and no connection to the target. Hog Farm _Talk 19:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. No connection to target whatsoever. CycloneYoris ^talk! 23:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Kingdom of Grenada }} → :Emirate of Granada  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Kingdom of Grenada|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Kingdom of Grenada closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Kingdom of Grenada|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Kingdom of Grenada closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Kingdom of Grenada|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Kingdom of Grenada closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

• Retarget to Monarchy of Grenada. I do not agree with result of the previous discussion, and I see no consensus there for retargering to Emirate of Granada. PS I do not know how correctly open a request to review a non-admin closure, thus just opening the new discussion. Somerby (talk) 18:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

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• {{no redirect|1 = Dusty articles }} → :Wikipedia:Database reports/Forgotten articles  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Dusty articles|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Dusty articles closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Dusty articles|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Dusty articles closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Dusty articles|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Dusty articles closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Confusing cross-namespace redirect. Delete, or perhaps redirect to Dustiness. MB 18:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• For the record, that page used to redirect to WP:Dusty articles, which itself redirects to WP:Database reports/Forgotten articles (a maintained version of the old dusty article list). That explains the weird title. However, this is still really weird since WP:Dusty articles has been a redirect far before Dusty articles. In any case I !vote to delete since it is relatively new (no links anywhere) and seems rather pointless (given that even Wikipedia:Database reports/Forgotten articles does not get that many pageviews, and that many people probably wouldn't know that WP:Dusty articles exists.) eviolite (talk) 20:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Lenticel ^(talk) 01:30, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and Eviolite. I fully expected this to be an ancient leftover from the earliest days of Wikipedia, but it's less than a week old and even WP:Dusty articles postdates namespaces by several years. Thryduulf (talk) 01:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Peter Segun }} → :Three Star Club  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Peter Segun|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Peter Segun closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Peter Segun|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Peter Segun closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Peter Segun|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Peter Segun closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Not mentioned at target. He has played for multiple teams (currently playing at Satdobato Youth Club according to translation of first paragraph of [https://www.hamrokhelkud.com/football/91736.html]), so redirecting to one team makes no sense. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 19:27, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

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• {{no redirect|1 = Polar bear attack }} → :2011 Svalbard polar bear attack  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Polar bear attack|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Polar bear attack closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Polar bear attack|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Polar bear attack closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Polar bear attack|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Polar bear attack closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Dubious that this would be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT for this term. "Polar bear#Life history and behaviour" may be a better potential target. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 15:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget to Bear attack#Polar bears, a section specifically about attacks by polar bears, and that mentions the 2011 attack. The section of the main Polar bear article is not entirely about their attacks. eviolite (talk) 16:08, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• :Good catch. I would also support redirecting to that section of that article. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 16:25, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bear attack#Polar bears, as a much more general target for what people might be looking for. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bear attack#Polar bears per Eviolite and Joseph. This particular attack may have been the most searched topic associated with that phrase at the time, but there are other notable ones occurring as well, both in and out of Svalbard. We don't want to risk ASTONISHing readers by redirecting them to this specific polar bear attack. Regards, SONIC678 18:35, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bear attack#Polar bears per above --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:35, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bear attack#Polar bears per above. If someone showed me 'polar bear attack' I would expect an article on polar bear attacks in general, not about a singular polar bear attack. (JayPlaysStuff | talk to me | What I've been up to) 02:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget per {{u|Eviolite}}. Huggums537 (talk) 05:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget per above. killer bee  16:23, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5 }} → :Wikipedia:Notability  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5 closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5 closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5 closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Not sure what purpose redirect serves. Looks like a test. Huggums537 (talk) 13:52, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. Users are entitled to user their own userspace for testing, regardless of whether it serves a purpose that is obvious to others or not. Unless you can provide evidence of this being harmful in some way there is no benefit to the encyclopaedia from deleting it. Thryduulf (talk) 14:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Comment it looks like the creator wanted this deleted, though. The original target of the redirect following the first rename was User:Ikip/test5. User:Ikip/test5 became a redirect to Wikipedia:Notability soon after that, but about a year later, User:Ikip himself tagged User:Ikip/test5 for {{tl|db-g7}}. 61.239.39.90 (talk) 15:25, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• :Which indicates that they know about {{temp|G7}} and so could have tagged this redirect for deletion had they wanted to. In the absence of any indication that they desire this redirect deleted, the only justification for deletion would be if it is harmful and no evidence of that has been presented. Thryduulf (talk) 17:08, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::Well, being harmful isn't the only justification for deletion. While I agree userspace should be sacred and unspoiled for test edits, the problem with this redirect is that it does not solely occupy userspace where special private knowledge would be required to access a non public-facing test edit. Unconstructive test edits are forbidden and routinely deleted as a natural course of action on most public-facing projectspace. It just so happens that this unconstructive test edit also occupies public-facing projectspace that doesn't require any special private knowledge for any public member to access, making it an unconstructive test edit that would very easily normally be forbidden and deleted if it did not also occupy userspace. Really, I was hasty in posting this here for discussion as it would have been a better candidate for CSD instead . Huggums537 (talk) 23:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::{{re|Huggums537}} How exactly is this a part of projectspace? The only way, when viewing a page, to see what redirects to it is to use Special:WhatLinksHere. The redirects don't appear anywhere in the text of the page itself, unless it's the "redirected from" someone sees after having followed the redirect in question. I could redirect every page in my userspace to WP:N and it would still have no effect on the reading experience of people browsing projectspace. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 23:47, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::My point is that the edit is not just simply a private test edit on some obscure userpage that nobody will ever find or know about, but rather it is attached to a very high profile public-facing project page. Just because it is not easily seen in the general "reading experience of people browsing projectspace" does not mean that editors don't go on to continue policing the backend of things for vandalism, unconstructive test edits, or other undesirable material. Otherwise, what would be the point of deleting any redirect at all according to the logic you presented? If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, then the same thing could be said for any redirect whether it resides in userspace or not. Are you actually really suggesting that we shouldn't delete any redirects at all simply because they "would still have no effect on the reading experience of people browsing projectspace"? Huggums537 (talk) 01:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::Also, I think that if you redirected every page in your userspace to WP:N that it sounds really nifty on paper, but in reality there would most likely be enough people that would have a problem with that kind of behaviour to enact sanctions against you... Huggums537 (talk) 01:35, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::{{re|Huggums537}} I haven't presented any logic. I'm questioning your own logic. You're saying that this redirect having a high-profile target somehow makes it itself high-profile. How? Like please give me an example of how this redirect's existence could inconvenience someone who is interacting with the page Wikipedia:Notability. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 01:48, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::::{{tq|You're saying that this redirect having a high-profile target somehow makes it itself high-profile. How?}} I found it by patrolling the back-end of a high profile page. Anyone else could easily do the same. Inconvenience or convenience has nothing to do with the fact that unconstructive test edits are not allowed even on the back end. Huggums537 (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::::Test edits are allowed in userspace. Patrolling the back end of a high-profile page is unnecessary. "A solution looking for a problem" isn't an ideal I usually endorse, but in this case it looks apt. — J947 ‡ ^{message ⁓ edits} 03:41, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Wait for creators input This is a page in userspace which users are entitled to use for testing purposes. Only the creator knows why he created this page. Assuming that this guy wants this page gone is a HUGE mistake which could set dangerous precedent for wanton deletion of userspace pages. Unless the creator tags the page with G7 or comments here then leave it alone. (JayPlaysStuff | talk to me | What I've been up to) 02:53, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

:** User:Rlevse renamed User:Inclusionist to User:Ikip which left a pagemove redirect from User:Inclusionist/test5 to User:Ikip/test5; a dummy account User:Inclusionist was created in its place (presumably to make sure nobody could take the username)

:** User:Ikip/test5 became a redirect to Wikipedia:Notability at some point, leading to a bot 'fixing' the double redirect

:** As a result of SUL finalization, enwiki user User:Inclusionist was renamed to User:Inclusionist~enwiki, so User:Inclusionist/test5 became User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5

:: and that leaves us where we are now, with a stray page User:Inclusionist~enwiki/test5 that redirects to Wikipedia:Notability. eviolite (talk) 03:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: Just noting for the record that I reverted a close that was in my view extremely premature as the RfD has not even been open for a single day and because nobody suggested the outcome (blanking) at all. eviolite (talk) 03:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Blank. For my mind, letting this RfD isn't necessary, but I'm not wasting any more time on this. — J947 ‡ ^{message ⁓ edits} 03:41, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Sorry, that was my close. My opinion is keep. — J947 ‡ ^{message ⁓ edits} 04:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Keep and trout nom for wasting RfD's time. A lot of "waste of time" RfDs at least have the saving grace of being "technically correct", but this one does not. I'm shocked that an experienced user needs to be reminded this, but yes, test pages are allowed in userspace, and the fact that you choose to patrol the WhatLinksHere for a projectspace page does not somehow abrogate that basic aspect of WP:UP. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 04:02, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :You have linked to WP:UP, but Wikipedia:User pages#What may I not have in my user pages? expressly forbids things such as redirects in userspace. WP:UP#NOTSUITED says no Wikipedia content not suited to userspace things such as Categories and templates intended for other usage, in particular those for articles and guidelines. This would include redirects. Categories, templates that add categories, and redirects are specifically and expressly not allowed. While test edits are allowed, redirects to projectspace are not, so go trout yourself for not actually reading what you link to. Huggums537 (talk) 06:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::That right there is a candidate for "Most Selective Interpretation of Policy of the Year". Didn't I say I wasn't wasting any more time on this? Okay, there's an exception for this then. I don't think this redirect could possibly be intended for other usage, even if redirects are under {{xt|categories and templates}}. — J947 ‡ ^{message ⁓ edits} 08:11, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::: No selective interpretation going on and no special exceptions for this redirect either because I forgot to mention the guidance very clearly and distinctly allows only two specifically named kinds of redirects in user space and those are soft redirects and main space redirects. All other name space redirects including project space redirects have not been named as ones that are allowed. If any of them were allowed, then they would have been named with the other two. Huggums537 (talk) 11:20, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::The lists of things allowed and not allowed on user pages are explicitly examples and not comprehensive. That userspace to project space redirects are not explicitly mentioned as allowed does not mean they are prohibited. The reason they are not mentioned is that this is the first time anyone has ever questioned their appropriateness - I've been an RfD regular for the best part of 15 years, if there was consensus that they were not allowed it would have come up here before and it never has. Thryduulf (talk) 12:04, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::Nice try. Anybody can manipulate the assumptions about what the guidance doesn't say to fit whatever argument they support. For example, I could just as easily say the guidance does not explicitly say that all redirects are allowed or that any other redirects are allowed other than the ones mentioned. A rather convenient trick because what the guidance doesn't say is an infinite blank slate you can fill with whatever thoughts and ideas you wish to change perception with. Yet, according to the assumptions you have put forth, we are somehow expected to believe that the guidance intended that all redirects are allowed unless explicitly mentioned as not being allowed, but then it really makes one wonder exactly what the point would be for the guidance to give two very specific "examples" of what is allowed (to the exclusion of all others) if the assumption is that all are allowed anyway? The answer is that it doesn't make any sense unless you conclude that they mentioned two to the exclusion of all others because their obvious intention was to exclude all the others.
• :::::{{tq|The reason they are not mentioned is that this is the first time anyone has ever questioned their appropriateness - I've been an RfD regular for the best part of 15 years, if there was consensus that they were not allowed it would have come up here before and it never has.}} There is a first time for everything and it has come up now. Look, I didn't write the guidance, I'm only interpreting it as I see it written. If all of you want the guidance to say that users have the right to redirect their own pages to any and all WP:Namespaces they want to, then any one of you can WP:Boldly go make the edit to guidance to make it say that and I will shut the f**k up, but right now it doesn't say that. Huggums537 (talk) 22:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::::Eh? How have you been here since 2008 and not learned that policies are descriptive and what is allowed in userspace is flexible and depends on circumstance? The guidance is not, nor is it intended to be, a definitive list of what is and is not allowed on user pages, because such would be impossible - because what is appropriate and inappropriate depends on context. The examples of things that are allowed and not allowed are exactly that, examples. The two mentioned have come up before, many times, and so it's worthwhile mentioning what the consensus regarding them is. If you weren't an editor in good standing I would have a hard time believing you weren't trolling. Thryduulf (talk) 00:51, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::::Trying to force feed me into accepting the guidance says what you want it to say without actually going and making it really actually say it by implicating me as being a troll isn't going to get you very far. Huggums537 (talk) 03:09, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::::::The point is the guidance does say what I quote it as saying, for example (emphasis mine in all cases):
• ::::::::*{{tpq|[This page] is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|considerable leeway is allowed in personalizing and managing your user pages}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|There is no fixed use for user pages}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|Besides communication, other legitimate uses of user space include (but are not limited to) [...] Useful links, tools, and scripts, [...] Experimentation}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia.}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|Unrelated content includes, but is not limited to: }}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|The Wikipedia community is generally tolerant and offers fairly wide latitude in applying these guidelines}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|Traditionally, Wikipedia offers wide latitude to users to manage their user space as they see fit.}}
• ::::::::*{{tpq|you have wide leeway to edit your user pages}}
• ::::::::Given all that, I genuinely don't understand how you could sincerely believe that the guidelines are prescriptive and something not explicitly mentioned is prohibited. I don't think you are trolling, and explicitly said so, but if a user with no track record of good contributions were making the arguments you are making here then this discussion would likely have been speedily closed. Thryduulf (talk) 03:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::::::Wow. Considering the fact that you just took several portions of the guidance and quoted them out of context and left them open ended for readers to use their imagination to fill in the blanks, I would say criticizing my arguments in such a way is really calling the kettle black. Anyway, you seem to be really driving the point home that we have unbridled freedom to do whatever the hell we want with redirects in our userspace. If this is true, then you still haven't offered a satisfactory explanation as to why in the world the guidance would specifically name mainspace redirects and soft redirects when they could have just as easily said "all redirects are allowed" if they were going to bother mentioning redirects at all. They didn't do that. There was a reason. You claim the reason involves "comprehensive lists" and "explicit examples", but this is just smoke and mirrors since there is no need for examples or lists of what is ok and what is not ok if everything is supposedly ok because if everything was supposedly ok then all you would have to do is say so. In all of these examples you have provided you claim that everywhere else in the document it does say so. This ignores the fact that the places where redirects are actually being discussed it really does not simply say so. Huggums537 (talk) 04:40, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• My goodness, the most controversial RfD of the day is a test redirect from userspace to a project space page? Keep to discourage future similar nominations and because no convincing reason for deletion has been presented. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :Nothing controversial about it. Redirects to projectspace are not allowed from userspace per Wikipedia:User pages#What may I not have in my user pages? Huggums537 (talk) 06:39, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::Absolutely nowhere on that pages does it say you are not allowed redirects to projectspace from userspace. The only thing it says about redirects is: {{tpq|User talk pages should not redirect to anything other than the talk page of another account controlled by the same user. However, redirects from userspace subpages to mainspace are common and acceptable. Soft redirects are allowed on userpages.}} (emphasis mine). This is not a user talk page so the first sentence isn't relevant, only the second is. The portion I bolded is also repeated later on in the context of draft articles. If redirects from user subpages to mainspace are allowed why on earth would they not be allowed to project space? Indeed there are 77 redirects in userspace that transclude {{temp|R to project namespace}} and there are many, many more that don't. e.g. I have some in my userspace, mostly from when I drafted project space pages there first. Thryduulf (talk) 12:00, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::As I mentioned above, I could easily say the same thing that absolutely nowhere on that pages does it say anyone is allowed redirects to projectspace from userspace. That is not an argument. It's a thought game. If somebody changes the guidance to say users have these rights, then I will shut the hell up and we can just all agree to keep this stupid redirect, but as it stands, the guidance doesn't even hint or imply users have the rights. OTOH, I have pointed out many implications that they don't. It would have to be clearly codified that they expressly have these rights. Huggums537 (talk) 22:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::::You have posted many things, not a single one implies anything close to redirects like this one being even mildly problematic, let alone prohibited. Nowhere on the page does it say that you may have a guestbook in your userspace, yet they are allowed, similarly many other things are allowed even if not explicitly mentioned, including drafts of things other than articles. Thryduulf (talk) 01:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• :::::Your argument makes sense. However, the difference between me arguing that "nowhere on the page does it say userspace redirects to projectspace are allowed" and you saying, "it doesn't need to say it", is that we know it is allowed because it is covered in other documentation. See WP:Guestbooks for an example. If you can show me where redirects from userspace to projectspace are allowed in some other documentation that would obviate the need for it being mentioned on the WP:UP then I will shut the hell up and we can all agree to keep the stupid redirect. Huggums537 (talk) 03:54, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::You might want to take a look at the number of objections in this RfD to verify whether there is indeed {{tq|[n]othing controversial about it}}. ~~~~
  User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Keep because it's just not that important to me and I've already wasted enough of my precious time arguing about it. Huggums537 (talk) 06:13, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Why are we still here, just to suffer }} → :Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Why are we still here, just to suffer|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Why are we still here, just to suffer closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Why are we still here, just to suffer|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Why are we still here, just to suffer closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Why are we still here, just to suffer|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Why are we still here, just to suffer closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Quote is not mentioned in the target article. Lord Belbury (talk) 12:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete One of the most meme'd dialog from the game but otherwise an obscure part of the game's plot. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete killer bee  16:23, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic }} → :Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron is getting problematic  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron Is Getting Problematic closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

This was created as a redirect to the ANI discussion thread about the Article Rescue Squadron, which has since been archived. The redirect is unused and unnecessary. From what I can tell, there are no other instances of project-space redirects to specific ANI discussions, and it is unlikely to become useful in the future. DanCherek (talk) 22:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. This isn't the first time a redirect like this has been created, and from memory what normally happens is that they mostly get retargetted to the archive or to a follow-up discussion somewhere, but they aren't common. If the latter exists for this discussion (I know it was suggested, but I've not looked to see if it has happened) then that would be my weak preference here. Thryduulf (talk) 00:09, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete unless anyone can show me evidence that this discussion is something that is or will be referred to as a significant precedent. Or retarget {{tq|to a follow-up discussion}} if one can be shown to exist. feminist (+) 03:13, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 11:59, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per feminist and because someone who knows the exact title of the thread could just search for it in the archives (typically the redirects to discussions that I've seen have been shortcuts--I can't think of any off the top of my head, but kinda like how WP:FRAM isn't called WP:User:Fram Banned For 1 Year By WMF Office.) eviolite (talk) 13:14, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Laundry mark }} → :Laundry symbol  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Laundry mark|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Laundry mark closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Laundry mark|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Laundry mark closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Laundry mark|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Laundry mark closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

This redirect ought to be deleted. Quite simply it points to a page that in no way relates to what laundry marks were, and in some places still are. Moreover, I can find no appropriate wikiarticle to which to change the target of the redirect. A laundry mark is a mark made by a commercial launderer on a garment, tablecloth, etc., to indicate either where and when it was laundered, or for whom it was laundered. It is not a care symbol. Here are three things which illustrate this:

• {{cite web | authors=Delphica |title=What is a laundry mark? |website=The Straight Dope Message Board |publisher=The Straight Dope |df=mdy-all |date=November 2000 |url=https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-laundry-mark/39894 |access-date=2021-11-15 |quote=[A] laundry mark is a mark made on clothing to identify it when it is laundered (in a commercial laundry, not in a personal washing machine or laundromat)}}
• {{cite web |author-first=Don |author-last=Chaddock |title=1870s stagecoach bandit Black Bart reforms, learns job skills |website=California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation |df=mdy-all |date=2018-05-23 |url=https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2018/05/24/unlocking-history-1870s-stagecoach-bandit-black-bart-reforms-learns-job-skills/ |access-date=2021-11-15 |quote=On the handkerchief was a laundry mark, which was the means of securing his arrest. … The investigators found a launderer with that mark in San Francisco on Bush Street. From there, they discovered the owner of the handkerchief was 'C.E. Bolton,' who was staying at a nearby hotel. … … It was a long chase but Black Bart was finally run down with the aid of a simple laundry mark.}}
• {{cite newspaper |author-first=Robert |author-last=Dominguez |title=How NYC detectives pieced together the case of a dismembered body scattered throughout the city |newspaper=New York Daily News |df=mdy-all |date=2021-11-02 |url=https://www.nydailynews.com/true-crime-justice-story/ny-true-crime-justice-story-jigsaw-murder-20211031-6o27brjwxjecxgut7u4jscaqxi-story.html |access-date=2021-11-15 |quote=On the neckband was a faded laundry mark with a coded number indicating where the garment had been washed. Detectives began a painstaking search for the cleaners and soon hit paydirt.}}

I should add that the redirect is "harmful" because it takes one to an article that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic and, consequently, will serve primarily to create confusion (deletion reason D2). Also, there is only one article linked to this redirect (verify). Thanks!{{smiley}} — SpikeToronto 11:09, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:{{tl|Wiktionary redirect}} to wikt:laundry mark. That entry appears to have be describing laundry marks as used in the above links as well as the only article that links to Laundry mark, and linking to a different project is better than deleting it, making it unsearchable, and turning its (admittedly singular) use into a redlink. eviolite (talk) 13:04, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

::I agree with @Eviolite. Redirect to Wiktionary. Good idea. Huggums537 (talk) 13:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:*Comment I support either redirecting to Wiktionary or deleting. My preference is in that order. I notice only one article links here; but in searches, there are several mentions of a laundry mark that could benefit from a link to the redirect. --Mindfrieze (talk) 17:13, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:*Comment: That’s a great idea, {{ping|Eviolite|p=}}! I hadn’t even thought about Wiktionary. Thanks! — SpikeToronto 22:45, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Comment: I relisted this discussion because I thought that it needed more input. But I immediately undid the relist per nominator's request, who explicitly stated that it was unnecessary. These were the comments that were added after the relist was made: CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

• Please delete the redirect to "Laundry symbol" which is incorrect, while y'all are debating where it ought to go. Thank you so very much, best Roxy the dog. wooF 00:17, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
• COMMENT: There is absolutely no reason to re-list this. The consensus was abundantly clear: Redirect to Wiktionary. The comments were 100% in favour of that disposition. It was unanimous. {{ping|CycloneYoris}} if you hadn't beat me to it, this discussion would now be closed. Instead we are all having to wait another week to get it done. There will be no "more thorough discussion and clearer consensus" on this matter: This is a thoroughly unimportant topic that died almost 60 years ago. Few, if any, people are interested in it.
  Question: Is there any way to undo this relist action and close this discussion out exactly as the unanimous discussion had intended it to be closed, with a redirect to Wiktionary? — SpikeToronto 00:39, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

20px UPDATE: I have, per {{ping|Eviolite|p=}}'s terrific suggestion, redirected to Wiktionary. ([http://enwp.org/?diff=1056866916 verify]). Thank you to everyone for your participation in this discussion. Thanks especially to Eviolite and CycloneYoris for their assistance in this, my first RfD nom. Thanks!{{smiley}} — SpikeToronto 01:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Roman Catholic Church }} → :Catholic Church  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Roman Catholic Church|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Roman Catholic Church closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Roman Catholic Church|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Roman Catholic Church closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Roman Catholic Church|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Roman Catholic Church closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Retarget to Latin Church or at least to Roman Catholic Church (disambiguation) (in this case better to move Roman Catholic Church (disambiguation) to Roman Catholic Church) or Roman Catholic (term). The term Roman Catholic Church for the Catholic Church as a whole is incorrect, but of course sometimes still used [https://www.thecompassnews.org/2011/11/do-you-know-differences-between-roman-byzantine-catholic-churches/], {{cite book|first=Paul |last=Turner|year=2007 |title=When other Christians become Catholic. |publisher=Liturgical Press|isbn=978-0-8146-6216-8|page=141|quote="When other Christians become Catholic: the individual becomes Eastern Catholic, not Roman Catholic"}}, {{cite encyclopaedia|url=http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09022a.htm |first=Adrian |last=Fortescue|author-link=Adrian Fortescue|title=Latin Church"|encyclopaedia=Catholic Encyclopedia|year=1910|quote=no doubt, by a further extension Roman Church may be used as equivalent to Latin Church for the patriarchate}} Somerby (talk) 08:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• DAB between Latin Church and Catholic Church, the term 'Roman Catholic Church' is interchangeably used between the two. (JayPlaysStuff | talk to me | What I've been up to) 02:41, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Anything "Roman Catholic", at least in British English, invariably refers to the Catholic Church tout court which is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in view of the relative significance of the articles here. Any confusion is already addressed by the hatnote on Catholic Church article.—Brigade Piron (talk) 08:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• :Brigade Piron as you can see from Roman Catholic (term) article not anything "Roman Catholic" invariably refers to the Catholic Church. --Somerby (talk) 10:20, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::I did not say invariably in the sense of inevitably. I agree there are other meanings. However, this is a clear case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC being relevant IMO. —Brigade Piron (talk) 20:27, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Catholic Church is the primary topic.★Trekker (talk) 08:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose, I am in favour in keeping in redirecting to Catholic Church. While I understand the will to use a more precise terminology, in this case I do not see the need to. Moreover, the Catholic Church often calls itself using some expressions very close to "Roman Catholic Church", e.g. "[https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds2.v.ii.i.html Catholic Apostolic Roman Church]". Veverve (talk) 21:38, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = C. solida }} → :Coelolepis  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:C. solida|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#C. solida closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:C. solida|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#C. solida closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:C. solida|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#C. solida closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

This redirect (an abbreviation of a species name) should be deleted, as it redirects to the genus (which is not monotypic), and it is ambiguous, as the abbreviation can also refer to Corydalis solida and Cellana solida. A disambiguation page would be a normally better method, but I think dab pages for short-form binomials are generally discouraged on Wikipedia. Esculenta (talk) 14:21, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

:Delete per nomination since unclear. UnitedStatesian (talk) 17:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

• Disambiguate or soft redirect to Wiktionary where a list of species by this short name can be built, if we do not build a disambiguation page here on Wikipedia. Since short form species names exist in the wild, they should be viable search terms. As this one is ambiguous, then a disambiguation page should exist. We could just define everything on Wiktionary instead of Wikipedia, and then link back to Wikipedia in the see also section of the Wiktionary page, though I don't see why there shouldn't be a disambiguation page. -- 64.229.90.53 (talk) 20:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
• Disambig per the ip editor. Readers will encounter this term in the wild and there is no good reason I can see why we shouldn't disambiguate it. Thryduulf (talk) 09:11, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
• Disambiguate removing the redirect seems accurate, but alot of same-genus-but-different-species wikilinks do it, and it will show a red link, so a new creation mixes the thing up. Normally, i would just link but place the display name different for these type of wikilink.Species-to-genus redirects should be addd if it's the only species in the genus.Leomk0403 (talk) 12:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 23:44, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete The convention in scientific literature is that a species is only abbreviated after it has first been written out in full. Species abbreviations do not exist "in the wild" without the full context of the unabbreviated genus. The abbreviation is not a reasonable search term. There are additional species that can be abbreviated C. solida that do not yet have articles on Wikipedia. Assuming somebody is searching for C. solida, how do we know they aren't seeking a subject that doesn't yet have an article on Wikipedia? Include red-links for every C. solida? Outside of the scientific literature, there are a handful of species that do frequently appear in abbreviated form: T. rex (most people know what the T. stands for), E. coli (most people don't know what the E. stands for (or if they do, they may have trouble spelling it)), however E. coli regularly appears in general audience news about disease outbreaks. Then there's C. elegans; it's not well-known to the general public, but may make an occasional appearance as an abbreviation in the science news section of a newspaper. And then there's C. elegans (disambiguation); at 144,178 bytes, it is Wikipedia's largest disambiguation page, and probably includes almost every organism that could be abbreviated as C. elegans. It isn't really useful for navigation; a reader who encounters C. elegans in the wild is better served by reading backwards in the document where they encountered it than by trying to find the appropriate entry on the dab page. User:Caftaric (now blocked) created the C. solida redirect and was responsible (with their other accounts) for the vast majority of edits to C. elegans (disambiguation). Let C. elegans (disambiguation) serve as a cautionary tale; it is a bad idea to create disambiguation pages (or redirects) for species abbreviations. Species abbreviation dab pages either require ongoing maintenance as new articles are added, or else will have many red-links. Species abbreviation redirects are ambiguous more often than not. Plantdrew (talk) 04:37, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
• :@Plantdrew Are you disputing the existence of all the {{cl|Species Latin name abbreviation disambiguation pages}}? I suggest that this is not the right venue for this, and that consensus of disambiguation be followed unless a broader discussion suggests acting otherwise (on a bigger scale). ~~~~
  User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 10:27, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::I'm not disputing ALL of them, just the vast majority. T. rex has primary topic, and T. rex (disambiguation) is useful for people who aren't sure how T. Rex (band) is styled. C. elegans has a primary topic, and therefore, as ridiculous as the resulting dab page is, I suppose it should continue to exist (at least to serve as a cautionary tale). I'd also dispute the existence of the vast majority of :Category:Redirects from scientific abbreviations, most of which would need disambiguation if keeping and dabbing C. solida sets a precedent. And then there are thousands of additional (usually ambiguous) species abbreviation redirects that haven't yet been categorized. Plantdrew (talk) 02:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 04:10, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Disambiguate - I have drafted one below the RfD notice. eviolite (talk) 13:26, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Comment almost all of Plantdrew's objections to a disambiguation page are that the scientific convention means people will not see usage like this in the wild. However that just means they shouldn't, not that they don't. There are countless examples of abbreviations being used in non-scientific contexts and sections of scientific articles seen out of context. That a large number of disambiguation pages will be needed is completely irrelevant. Thryduulf (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = 24 pounder }} → :24-pounder long gun  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:24 pounder|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#24 pounder closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:24 pounder|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#24 pounder closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:24 pounder|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#24 pounder closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

Heavily ambiguous, as this was a generic cannon rating. There's also the M1841 24-pounder howitzer and the 24-pounder Dahlgren gun and maybe others; specific meaning is probably too context-specific to point to a single place. Hog Farm _Talk 04:14, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

• Disambig per nom. Thryduulf (talk) 11:16, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
• setindexify per nom. Add information on what being a 24-pounder means (ie. it's not the weight of the gun itself) -- 64.229.90.53 (talk) 21:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
• Would this be the first such article for a cannon rating? (A "yes" is not necessarily a reason not to proceed.) --BDD (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
• {{ping|BDD}} 32-pounder is a set-index. Hog Farm _Talk 21:57, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
• ::Ah, that would probably do, then. I was just looking at Cannon and its corresponding category. --BDD (talk) 00:04, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

• Setindexify per the IP. Seems like the best solution here if someone wants to draft one up. If not, a dab page would be a good starting point. Mdewman6 (talk) 07:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
• Convert to Set index per above and precedent in 32-pounder. --Lenticel ^(talk) 05:27, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
• Setindexify per above. --Pokechu22 (talk) 06:01, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: A Set Index Page will help.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 04:07, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Make SIA; I have already drafted one based on the 32-pounder article. If it goes through then closer should make sure to add {{tl|SIA}} to the end eviolite (talk) 04:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

• {{no redirect|1 = Wolfe (TV series) }} → :List of programmes broadcast by Sky One, Sky Max and Sky Showcase  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Wolfe (TV series)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wolfe (TV series) closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Wolfe (TV series)|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wolfe (TV series) closed as retarget}}}} retarget]/[{{fullurl:Wolfe (TV series)|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Wolfe (TV series) closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]}} ] 

The target doesn't mention the series. It is mentioned, without details, in Sky Max. Delete to encourage article creation; or write the article, it looks potentially notable. Narky Blert (talk) 15:54, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:36, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete: Not mentioned at target, and this encourages article creation (if notable). Joseph2302 (talk) 11:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.