Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 December 11#Shopping carts

Where were the first shopping carts introduced?

• shopping cart and Sylvan Goldman say the Humpty Dumpty chain
• Piggly Wiggly says the Piggly Wiggly chain and quotes the Harvard Business Review

Both articles agree it was in 1937 in Oklaholma. I believe that Humpty Dumpty is more likely, but some high quality sources would be useful. TSventon (talk) 11:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:It seems to be a matter of some dispute, but [https://sova.si.edu/record/nmah.ac.0739 Guide to the Telescoping Shopping Cart Collection, 1946-1983, 2000] by the Smithsonian Institution has the complex details of the dispute between Sylvan Goldman [of Humpty Dumpty] and Orla Watson. No mention of Piggly Wiggly, but our article on Watson notes that in 1946, he donated the first models of his cart to 10 grocery stores in Kansas City.

:[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WBH3rhiWsm4C&pg=PA205 The Illustrated History of American Military Commissaries (p. 205)] has both Watson and Goldman introducing their carts in 1947 (this may refer to carts that telescope into each other for storage, a feature apparently lacking in Goldman's first model).

:[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JCUwEQAAQBAJ&pg=PT17 Scalable Innovation: A Guide for Inventors, Entrepreneurs, and IP Professionals] says that Goldman's first cart was introduced to Humpty Dumty in 1937.

:Make of that what you will. Alansplodge (talk) 13:30, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

::Absolutely. I remember that the power lift arrangement mentioned in the Smithsonian's link was still an object of analysis for would-be inventors in the mid-sixties, and possibly later, even though the soon to be ubiquituous checkout counter conveyor belt was very much ready making it unnecessary. Couldn't help curiously but think about those when learning about Bredt's rule at school later, see my user page, but it's true "Bredt" sounded rather like "Bread" in my imagination. --Askedonty (talk) 15:33, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:On Newspapers.com (pay site), I'm seeing shopping carts referenced in Portland, Oregon in 1935 or earlier, and occasionally illustrated, at a store called the Public Market; and as far as the term itself is concerned, it goes back to at least the 1850s. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

::But perhaps referring to a cart brought by the shopper to carry goods home with, rather than one provided by the storekeeper for use in-store? Alansplodge (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Alansplodge|Askedonty|Baseball Bugs}} thank you for your help, it seems that the Harvard Business Review is mistaken and the Piggly Wiggly chain did not introduce the first shopping baskets, which answers my question. The shopping cart article references a [https://www.csi.minesparis.psl.eu/working-papers/WP/WP_CSI_006.pdf paper by Catherine Grandclément], which shows that several companies were selling early shopping carts in 1937, so crediting Sylvan Goldman alone is not the whole story. TSventon (talk) 17:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

At 53:20 in Dunkirk (1958 film), British soldiers talk about [paraphrasing] 'flowers on the way into Belgium, raspberries on the way out', and specifically reference lilacs. I imagine this was very clear to 1958 audiences, but what is the significance of lilacs? Is it/was it a symbol of Belgium? Valereee (talk) 21:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:I think it's just that the BEF entered Belgium in the Spring, which is lilac time. DuncanHill (talk) 22:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

:There are contemporary reports of the streets being strewn with lilac blossom. See [https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75930659/7411364 here] "Today the troops crossed the frontier along roads strewn with flowers. Belgian girls, wildly enthusiastic, plucked lilac from the wayside and scattered it along the road to be torn and twisted by the mighty wheels of the mechanised forces." DuncanHill (talk) 22:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

::Ah! That would explain it, thanks! Valereee (talk) 16:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)