Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Ed Poor and FuelWagon

Ed Poor suggested he and I try [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor&diff=25938480&oldid=25937901 mediation by email] to resolve a longstanding dispute. If I could pick, I'd probably go with User:Andrevan as mediator, assuming he doesn't have a conflict of interest regarding Ed Poor or myself. FuelWagon 21:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:I agree to mediation. If I could pick, I would go with Improv or Catherine. Uncle Ed 21:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::Andrevan is busy. I think I'll assign this case to Improv as he once mediated a case with Ed Poor before, but if FuelWagon rejects Improv on those grounds, I'll assign Catherine. Redwolf24 (talk) 22:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Fine, User:Improv. Since I know almost nothing about these people, I'm basically picking names out of hats. FuelWagon 22:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::::I have emailed both users, and mediation will proceed when we all get in touch over email. --Improv 23:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::::I have withdrawn as mediator on this case. I am uncertain if/when the case is to proceed, although if it is, I am willing to mediate again. --Improv 20:11, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

On Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:47 PM, I emailed my answers to the first round of mediation. They are pasted below. FuelWagon 19:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

1) Could you briefly describe the difficulties you have been having?

I'm not sure how "brief" you want it.

Very briefly, Ed Poor was mediating Terri Schiavo. A friend of his, SlimVirgin,

entered the article out of the blue and made a massively bad edit, a number of

editors opposed her edit, and Ed engaged in teh debate, defending SlimVirgin and

attacking people who criticized her. Three editors left wikipedia in disgust

after this fiasco.

The longer version:

Ed was mediating Terri Schiavo back in July. A month into mediation, a friend of

his (SlimVirgin) came into the article and made a nine back to back

edits with the "in use" tag,

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=18603096&oldid=18601666

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18603096

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18606984

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18608587

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18610732

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18613021

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18613179

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18614178

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terri_Schiavo&diff=next&oldid=18615290

A number of editors (myself, Duckecho, Neuroscientist, A ghost)

objected, saying her edits contained numerous factual and NPOV

problems, and that an administrator (SlimVirgin is an admin)

should have known not to walk into an article marked "controversial"

and "in mediation" and performed such a massive edit with little

knowledge of the subject.

It was at this point that mediation suddenly failed and Ed seemed

to engage in the argument. I violated NPA and was blocked (explained

below). I accepted the block without protest. But then I started

working on an RfC against SlimVirgin and Ed blocked me for making

"personal remarks".

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FuelWagon&diff=next&oldid=18767057

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FuelWagon&diff=next&oldid=18767273

I ask Ed to point out specifically what got me blocked, and he declines to answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor&diff=18874463&oldid=18872886

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor&diff=18883831&oldid=18883677

User Neuroscientist posts a 5,000 word explanation of the different

technical problems with SlimVirgin's edit. Ed Poor responds by warning

him about violating NPA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATerri_Schiavo&diff=18726255&oldid=18719115

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Neuroscientist&diff=prev&oldid=18749442

I RfC SlimVirgin. Ed initially gives it partial hesitant endorsement,

saying SlimVirgin "moved too far, too fast", but then after another

editor told him he should not have endorsed it, Ed withdrew his comment

and attacked the RfC as "a sneaky way of "building a case"

"it is no more than Wikipedia:Gaming the system in a hypocritical

bullying way." and "spurious".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:FuelWagon/050714

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:FuelWagon/050714_1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:FuelWagon/050714_2

I eventually withdraw my certification of the RfC to allow it to be deleted.

Ed Poor then posts this to me:

::You're entitled to form whatever opinion you want, but not always to

::express it. There is no freedom of speech at Wikipedia in the same

::sense as America's First Amendment. I happen to think you're an asshole

::and a shit head, and that you're fucking everything up, you stupd,

::time-wasting bully!!! (This is inserted as an example of a forbidden

::comment, go ahead and complain about me if you want, but I was

::illustrating a point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor&diff=next&oldid=19004434

Duckecho and Neuroscientist stop editing wikipedia soon after the

RfC is deleted. A Ghost stops editing soon after that.

2) Have any other people been involved in the dispute?

Duckecho, Neuroscientists, A ghost,

The people who opposed the RfC included

1 SlimVirgin

2 Viriditas

3 El_C

4 Mel Etitis

5 172

6 Jayjg

7 Noitall

8 Ruy Lopez

9 Proteus

10 FeloniousMonk

11 Ann Heneghan

12 Kaisershatner

13 Mackensen

14 Slrubenstein

15 Bishonen

16 Willmcw

17 Eliezer

18 David Bergan

3) Have the difficulties ever felt personal to you?

I'm not sure if I thought it was "personal".

I thought that Ed Poor was playing favorites to SlimVirgin,

which meant that I, Duckecho, and Neuroscientist

were dismissed by him, even though we were right about

the content. SlimVirgin's edit was full of errors.

4) Do you feel that you have ever stepped over the bounds of

what you would consider in calmer times to be good

and appropriate behaviour?

On July 12, I violated NPA, attacking SlimVirgin.

After I posted those comments, Viriditas calmed me down and

I went through and tried to clean up the personal attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Terri_Schiavo&diff=18693597&oldid=18693343

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Terri_Schiavo&diff=prev&oldid=18693330

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Terri_Schiavo&diff=prev&oldid=18692973

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Terri_Schiavo&diff=prev&oldid=18692739

5) Do you feel that your counterpart has ever violated policy

on Wikipedia in these conflicts?

I think he failed to mediate in any sort of neutral way

once SlimVirgin entered the Terri Schiavo article,

I think he engaged in the debate, taking SlimVirgin's side.

I think Ed's second block against me was a misuse of admin priveledges.

I think he violated NPA when he was "illustrating a point".

6) Do you feel that you may have ever violated policy on

Wikipedia in these conflicts?

I violated NPA against SlimVirgin.

I cleaned up my edits.

I was blocked by Ed anyway, and I accepted the block.

7) What kind of specific changes would you like to see come

about as a result of mediation? (try to keep this

concrete)

Concrete? I don't know, I want some honesty around this.

Ed has never acknowledged any bias during mediation

in SlimVirgin's favor, he never acknowledged that

his second block was undeserved, his warning to

Neuroscientist was undeserved, his attack against the

RfC was out of line for a neutral mediator, or that

he attacked me.

And when I've taken this through any other stage in the

dispute resolution system, I get friends of Ed defending

him independent of whether his actions were right or wrong.

Arbcom closed the case against Ed without declaring that

he had done a single thing wrong.

SlimVirgin is still grudging me because I RfC'ed her,

and she has just recently RfC'ed me, bringing up all

the mess around Terri Schiavo, claiming it is entirely

my fault.

If Terri Schiavo had been handled by a neutral mediator,

this dispute would never have exploded in the first place.

Because SlimVirgin never had to acknowledge a single

criticism of her edit (she still denies there was a

single error of fact in her edit), because the mediator

placed blame on the editors who criticized her, SlimVirgin

gets to cast herself as the complete innocent here.

And I'm getting shafted by the collusion of silence.

No one can admit anyone else did anythign wrong.

Neither Ed, nor anyone else, can admit that Ed Poor's

mediation was biased and engaged in the dispute.