Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Moksha88/Archive#Comments by other users 3

• {{checkuser|1=Apollo1203}}
• {{checkuser|1=Treehugger8891}}

• Tools: [https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report] Auto-generated every hour.

1. First User Apollo1203 has opened a section (inclusion of Mahatma Gandhi's opinion) on Talk page of Criticism of Swaminarayan then Moksha88 did so by supporting him. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=919422254&oldid=919407034 diff] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=919493017&oldid=919422254 diff].
2. Both gave me warning, Apollo said that using word 'Pathetic is abusive. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Harshil169#Refrain_from_Abusive_Language here]. And after 12 hours, Moksha has given [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Harshil169&diff=919498563&oldid=919424323 warning] to me about disruptive editing without any type of the disruption on the article.
3. According to Moksha88, direct quotes from the book can't be cited and it is original research. Also, in same way, direct quoting from Mahatma Gandhi's book is not reliable per Apollo1203 and Moksha88 said that his opinion is not notable [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect#Gandhi_on_Swaminarayan_Sampraday here].
4. Most importantly, all of them are removing contents from Criticism of Swaminarayan sect, nothing constructive and opening unnecessary talks on the talk page and supporting each other. This makes single user to be very occupied for editing. Perhaps, a try not to add any criticism about one particular sect.
5. They are editing in the same area. Like when I have added the tag of Fan POV on the article Swaminarayan (spiritual tradition) then suddenly Treehugger8891 and Moksha88 both said that talk is necessary before replacing tag. It can be found at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swaminarayan_(spiritual_tradition) here]. And suddenly, Treehugger8891 removed the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_(spiritual_tradition)&diff=919142588&oldid=919017034 tag].
6. Three editors are editing same page of Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha. Check it [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&action=history here] and they don't have any conflict with each other.
7. Editor interaction analyzer is also saying they have very less mean time in their editing on different pages. Varying from 26 minutes to 19 hours only. [https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users=Moksha88&users=Apollo1203&users=Treehugger8891&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki Check]. Harshil ^{want to talk?} 02:44, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Whomever is looking into this false accusation, they can look at the talk page on the Criticism of Swaminarayan sect page and see that user Harshil169 has repeatedly engaged in edit battles with many users. As we are attempting to maintain wikipedia policy's, Harshil169 has refused to let consensus be met on any edits or suggestions. Besides the users being accused by Harshil, there are handful of users on the page that agree with my edits and point of view: Ms Sarah Welch, Nizil Shah and Gazal world. The edits and comments I have been making all abide by Wikipedia policy of NPOV, Verifiability and Reliable Sources. This claim of 'sockpuppets' is false Apollo1203 (talk) 03:25, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

::Cite where users agreed with your point?— Harshil ^{want to talk?} 03:56, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

::Also, stay on point here. Clarify whether you’ve shared your IP with anyone or have other accounts rather than arguing some other things. — Harshil ^{want to talk?} 03:58, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

::: I have not shared my IP or account with anyone. This investigation is unwarranted. Apollo1203 (talk) 03:12, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I have not shared my IP or my accounts with others. I believe {{ping|Harshil169}} has requested this investigation out of {{strikethrough|bad faith}}. Please reference Criticism of Swaminarayan sect talk page and his personal talk page for further details. Thank you. Moksha88 (talk) 02:19, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

::Stop doing personal attacks. Calling someone for bad faith is considered as personal attack per WP:Civility. Strike those words. All evidences are given in the investigation and the checkuser will shortly look at them.— Harshil ^{want to talk?} 02:22, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

:::I am sorry you feel these comments are uncivil. I'm just referencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending_yourself_against_claims, specifically, "If an accusation on this page is "bad faith" (an editor making a fake case for an "attack" or to prevent their own editing being examined) then you may wish to say so briefly, but cases on this page will be decided based upon evidence of misuse of accounts only. You do not have to defend yourself against other claims, however bad, or engage in discussion about them. You may wish to note that the claim is not relevant to sock puppetry." Moksha88 (talk) 07:39, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

::::Read WP:AOBF before accusing without proper evidence and directly calling someone as bad faith. — Harshil ^{want to talk?} 08:51, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

• Without checking Moksha88, the other two are {{unrelated}}, and with the weak evidence this case had to start, I'm closing. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 09:00, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

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• {{checkuser|1=Adurcup23}}
• {{checkuser|1=Timbim111}}

• Tools: [https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report] Auto-generated every hour.

The primary account was reported for on-wiki canvassing for {{slink|WP:RSN|OpIndia and Swarajya}}. The two accounts listed below were created within the last 24 hours and have made two edits on the same noticeboard. Timbim111 has {{diff|Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard|prev|945347459|edited}} a {{diff|Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard|prev|945347459|comment}} made by Adurcup23 as well.

The latter two seem very likely to be related to each other, the primary one not as likely since they are a much older editor but just being safe here. Could be a result of some form of off-wiki canvassing though too. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 19:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

• Requested CheckUser due to extensive off-wiki canvassing related to Wikipedia's coverage of the 2020 Delhi riots, which is affected by the noticeboard discussion at {{slink|WP:RSN|OpIndia and Swarajya}}. — Newslinger talk 02:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

• Can we add {{noping|IndianHistoryEnthusiast}} to the list please? With merely 153 edits, he has no other edits outside the topic area? --KartikeyaS (talk) 14:24, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

• The two suspected socks are {{possilikely}}, but {{unrelated}} to the master. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 22:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• I've created Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Adurcup23. Closing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

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• {{checkuser|1=Apollo1203}}
• {{checkuser|1=Skubydoo}}
• {{checkuser|1=Harshmellow717}}
• {{checkuser|1=Hexcodes}}
• {{checkuser|1=Golfer1223}}

• Tools: [https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&user={{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}}.html User compare report] Auto-generated every hour.

These accounts have worked together for at least six years to consistently promote information reflecting favorably on Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha (BAPS) and associated entities, and remove information unfavorable to them. They've done this while working against a rival anti-BAPS sockfarm that they've managed to get banned (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Swamiblue); the other sockmaster has tried to return the favor, but Moksha & co. have helpfully removed such accusations.

A brief note on scope here: The master account here was registered in 2006, and the evidence shows socking dating back to 2015. The accounts have over 6,000 edits between them; Apollo has PCR rights. And throughout these years of socking, these accounts have relentlessly worked together to skew talkpage discussions in their favor. If this sockpuppetry is confirmed, a thorough review will be needed of the damage they've caused in this topic area.

The five other than Moksha caught my eye when they all !voted to delete at {{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2021_May_26#2021_Swaminarayan_Akshardham_controversy}}, all citing rationales that were sort of uncanny-valley similar to normal RFD rationales. I checked their projectspace contributions and found that none of the five had ever !voted at RFD before; in fact, Hexcodes and Golfer had never edited projectspace at all before.

;Interactions

All but Golfers and Hexcodes have heavily edited the same core set of BAPS articles. Golders and Hexcodes, meanwhile, have only shown passing interest in the topic, making their participation in the RFD all the more intriguing. And the six of them sure do tend to agree on things. The following is drawn just from Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya, and is just a cherry-picked list, not exhaustive.

• Moksha88 agreeing with Apollo1203 ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=933398122] (supporting an RM) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=955045533] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=977280161] (also notes mistake Apollo made) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=988942559]), with Harshmellow ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=956212318] (also notes mistake Harshmellow made) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=970009574]), and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968947860 with Skubydoo]
• Apollo agreeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=955603126 with Harshmellow], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=932390157 with Moksha] (first edit to page), and with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=956213754 both Harshmellow and Moksha]
• Harshmellow agreeing with Skubydoo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968331489] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=977947589])
• Skubydoo agreeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=977143378 with Harshmellow], with Apollo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=975526664] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976468970] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976640717]), [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=969538330 with Moksha], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=977313958 with both Moksha and Apollo]

They get along very well. They disagree sometimes, but never on anything important:

• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=954582999 Moksha reverts Apollo and asks them to justify their reasoning.] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=next&oldid=954583064 Apollo does.] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=next&oldid=954944112 Moksha decides they agree.]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=956745179 Moksha asks Harshmellow and Apollo their opinion]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=978470847 Harshmellow notes a mistake by Skuby and Moksha.] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=978637037 Moksha apologies.]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976973765 Harshmellow thanks Skubydoo and Apollo, then asks if Apollo can make an edit they're having trouble with technically.]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=956495359 Moksha tells Harshmellow to keep talk on the page they're on, and then suggests a slight tweak to Harshmellow's idea]

Meanwhile Golfer and Hexcodes have joined the other four to [https://sigma.toolforge.org/timeline.py?page=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28North_America%29&users=Apollo1203&users=Moksha88&users=Golfer1223&users=Harshmellow717&users=Skubydoo&users=Hexcodes&server=enwiki remove negative content] from Swaminarayan Akshardham (North America). Hexcodes [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1023474097 thanks Skubydoo for their edits].

Messages back and forth: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1022733026 Harshmellow to Skubydoo], [https://sigma.toolforge.org/timeline.py?page=User+talk%3AApollo1203&users=Apollo1203&users=Moksha88&users=Golfer1223&users=Harshmellow717&users=Skubydoo&users=Hexcodes&server=enwiki several] from Moksha to Apollo including [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=940669720 a barnstar], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1005726411 Apollo to Moksha].

;Similarities

I think all of that establishes pretty well that these accounts are working together. But are they the same person? Well, to start with a small thing, the main four almost always use curly quotes/apostrophes in talkpage comments: Moksha ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968947860] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=970009574] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=978637037] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=979673459] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=980346878]), [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=975168413 Apollo], Harshmellow ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976615386] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dalit&diff=prev&oldid=1022726297]), Skubydoo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968097784] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968399742] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=975526664] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976468970]). (Golfer has never edited talkspace. Hexcodes has rarely, and has only used quotation marks [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tuesdays_with_Morrie&diff=prev&oldid=1023587942 once], using straight quotes in that case; the others do use straight quotes occasionally too, though.) More damningly, though, we have a very particular tendency: parenthetical policy-shortcut references, often unlinked, e.g. {{tq|don't engage in sockpuppetry (WP:SOCK)}}. And the main four all share that for sure: Moksha ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968947860] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=974852103] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=980346878] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampraday&diff=prev&oldid=928153565] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Morari_Bapu&diff=prev&oldid=927844886] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampraday&diff=prev&oldid=924545803]), Apollo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=970083027] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vedanta&diff=prev&oldid=991610276] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vedanta&diff=prev&oldid=986990519]), Harshmellow ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=967967410#Original_Research] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dalit&diff=prev&oldid=1022726297] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=985972021]), Skubydoo ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968239975] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968399742])

Futhermore, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Moksha88/sandbox3&action=history Moksha], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vachanamrut&diff=prev&oldid=933827064 Apollo], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Harshmellow717/sandbox&action=history Harshmellow] have used their sandboxen to share proposed edits to an article.

All six editors' timecards show a bedtime of around 5PM-6PMAM UTC, although with varying amounts of nighttime activity. All write in clear, fluent English. And all six really don't want Wikipedia to discuss the human trafficking allegations against BAPS in New Jersey.

I've discussed this a fair bit with Blablubbs, who noticed several other similarities, which he'll post about when he has the chance. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 11:16, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

• Just to clarify: English fluency is relevant because, if you were to take six random editors who edit in the topic area of Hinduism, it's fairly unlikely for all six to speak fluent English (in a dialect that reads North American at first blush) and keep a sleep schedule that suggests being based in North America. Furthermore, even of six randomly selected Americans or Canadians who speak English as a first language, it's fairly unlikely for all six to use the same speech register. There's no moral judgment involved there, just a statistical observation. It's not like there's anything wrong with people who speak less-than-fluent English editing the English Wikipedia—we have a top-notch admins and valued content creators who fall into that category—nor with people editing articles about topics from different corners of the globe; it's just that we can use the overall statistical trends here as evidence when looking for behavioral similarities. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 18:20, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
• :{{ping|Skubydoo}} Oh come on. I initially wrote 5PM-6PM, then realized my mistake and amended to 5PM-6AM, accidentally failing to correct the first "PM" as well. I think that's pretty obvious.
• :I have no way of knowing if any of you is a person of color. Your userpage, at least, does not indicate that you are. My statement is only offensive if you view it as an insult to say that someone doesn't speak fluent English. I do not view it that way. This is no different from observing that a cohort of editors all use British spelling or something like that. I do find it amusing for you to level this critique in the same thread where you've nitpicked the word "pharmacy" versus the word "pharmaceutical" with an editor who does not speak English as his first language. Meanwhile, I struggle to believe that your good-faith reading of my last comment is that I think that non-fluent English speakers can only be admins or edit in the topic area of Hinduism... especially when I said {{tq|top-notch admins and valued content creators}}. Y'know, gaslighting isn't very effective when the original statements are right here on the same page for everyone to view.
• :Now, if you'd like to call me a racist again, WP:ANI is thataway. Sure would help speed up this SPI, so be my guest. Otherwise, I'd kindly ask that you not cast such aspersions, and simply do what I'm doing and wait for the CUs/admins to get back to us. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 20:35, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
• I'm thinking further about Hexcodes and Golfer. It's tough, because the main behavioral evidence we've used for the other five has been talk-page contributions, and neither has much of them. If we look back to the RfD, Hexcodes went along with Skubydoo's rather perplexing argument that having a redirect titled "2021 Swaminarayan Akshardham controversy" would somehow make it harder for people to find content about the Akshardham Temple attack. I will grant that Golfer was the only one to advance a deletion rationale that made sense. To me the main thing is the shift in behavior in the context of the forced labor controversy: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=Golfer1223&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions the first edit Golfer ever made outside of mainspace or their own userspace] was to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1023388095 ask] why the controversy was even being discussed on talk; their second such edit was to the RfD; and their third was to this SPI. That's it. Likewise, Hexcodes' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=Hexcodes&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=250&title=Special%3AContributions first participation in any on-wiki discussion] was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1023058308 flagging the plagiarism they mentioned and agreeing with Skubydoo about not mentioning the controversy]; other than the RfD and this SPI, they have participated in a discussion only once since then.{{pb}}If there's no CU evidence, and no one can find better behavioral evidence than what we have, then my thinking is there probably isn't grounds to block as sock/meatpuppets. However, I do think it's extremely likely that these accounts have a COI here. I can assume coincidence to a degree, but it's just so unlikely for that to be the first thing that these accounts ever decide to engage in discussion on. If they aren't blocked, they should be aware that any future editing in the BAPS topic area will likely be met with serious scrutiny. It's neither editor's primary focus, so if this really is all a horrible misunderstanding, it seems like the best thing they could do for themselves is just voluntarily abstain from that topic area. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 09:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• :Looking at {{checkuser|Sacredsea}}, with a focus on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=Sacredsea&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions their non-mainspace contribs]. We've got:
• :* Lots of pov-pushing (see... basically all of it)
• :* Agreeing with others listed here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Morari_Bapu&diff=prev&oldid=928852872] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=prev&oldid=920752060] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=prev&oldid=919936253] etc.
• :* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Moksha88/sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=928415376 Working on a draft with Moksha]
• :* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=prev&oldid=919930324 Proposing changes drafted in sandbox]
• :* Unlinked policy shortcuts in basically every post. Only saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pramukh_Swami_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=729539235 one] with the telltale {{tq|(WP:SHORTCUT)}} phrasing, but I didn't check all of them.
• : I can gather more diffs if desired, but with the patterns we've worked out, I think a lot of these edits speak for themselves. Good looking out, User:Kbhatt22. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 17:46, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• ::{{checkuser|Treehugger8891}} bears resemblance as well, although not as strongly. Like Hexcodes and Golfer, definitely COI, maybe not sock/meat. That said, inactive for the last 18 months, so maybe not that important to figure out. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 17:52, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• :::I initially thought that JJ must be wrong about {{checkuser|ThaNDNman224}}, because I saw this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=1027806395 "BAPS is overemphasized removing to restore balance"]. Then I looked at the actual edit: removing two books from § Further reading on a page where "BAPS" appears 35 times. Given the timing of the edit, 13 days after I filed this SPI, this looks a lot like an attempt to cast off suspicion. We also have:
• :::* POV-pushing, including regarding the forced labor allegations [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1022886497] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022789550] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022789769]
• :::* Agreements! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1022886652] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=976589771] I mentioned at NPOVN that four of seven support !votes at a particular CfD came from the first four blocked here. Well, a fifth was from Actionjackson and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_February_10&diff=prev&oldid=1007630114 here's a sixth]! (Seventh is a CfD regular, so no guilt by association there.)
• :::* Lots of unlinked policy shortcuts. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=977140435 At least one parenthesized]
• ::: -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 18:05, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• ::::{{checkuser|Coolcactus04}} is, like Hexcodes and Golfer, another user whose [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=Coolcactus04&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions only ever] contribution to a content discussion has been to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&diff=prev&oldid=1023494339 support Moksha et al.] regarding downplaying the trafficking allegations, but there's no other behavioral evidence, and I assume that's not enough to justify a check. Just noting for the record, should they become more active in the BAPS topic area in the future. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 18:26, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• :::::{{checkuser|Tale.Spin}} fits the pattern of agreeing with the various socks listed here, including to downplay criticism of BAPS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=978266748] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&diff=prev&oldid=919969401] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=973933160]. If they're not a sock, then they're in pretty unfortunate company at {{slink|Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya/Archive_2#Structure_of_the_article_(history_&_major_branches)}}. That said, there's not a lot of behavioral similarities beyond the shared POV, and unlike the three who I think might be COI/canvassed but not socks/meat, in this case there is substantial talkspace participation elsewhere, which makes me think this could be an independent editor with a non-neutral POV but no coördination. No edits since January, so might be better just to monitor. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 17:10, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
• ::::::{{checkuser|PinkElixir}} seems pretty DUCKy, in line with ones already blocked. Part of the push to remove the trafficking allegations [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022861564] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022862657], including edit-warring [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022965923] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1023052158]. As you can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=PinkElixir&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=500&title=Special%3AContributions from non-mainspace contribs], did TWA in December of 2019, which fits our timeline roughly. Prior to the start of this SPI, every talkspace post except for their first had been to POV-push for BAPS: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=970302279] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=970327389] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Morari_Bapu&diff=prev&oldid=970502906] (agreeing with Harshmellow, opposing a Swamiblue sock, with parenthesized unlinked policy shortcuts), [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=1022862657] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Hindu_temples_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=1023912182] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Hindu_temples_outside_India&diff=prev&oldid=1024156646] (trafficking POV, with unlinked shortcuts and curly quotes. (To avoid duplication of effort, I'll note that I had an admin look at Draft:Vartan Melkonian; appears unrelated.) I'm also noticing another subtle tell here, which is using line-breaks prior to or within indented replies. Lots of editors do it (which, sidenote, they should not), but it might have some probative value, if anyone would like me to do an analysis on it. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 17:54, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
• :::::::{{checkuser|Tardispower}} (last edit Dec. 2018) also shows a notable POV, such as in their intial version of Akshar-Purushottam Darshan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=Tardispower&namespace=0&wpfilters%5B%5D=nsInvert&tagfilter=&start=&end=&limit=500&title=Special%3AContributions Non-mainspace contribs] don't give us much to work with, however, although [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=717514216] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan&diff=prev&oldid=735104747] are somewhat suspicious. Likely not enough for action, but noting for the record.
• :::::::{{ping|L235}} This makes for eight here that aren't blocked. While there's some like this one that I know are unlikely to be blocked, are there any that you'd like me to conduct further research on? I've been keeping these newer additions fairly bare-bones just to make the basic case, but on most of these could go into greater detail if desired. ThaNDNman and PinkElixir are the two I see the strongest cases for. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 19:06, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
• ::::::::Also, for accounts that aren't blockable, worth noting that some might be WP:GS/CASTE-TBANnable specifically from the matter of the trafficking allegations (which concerns exploitation of Dalits). -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 19:14, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

{{od|*::::::::}} {{checkuser|Kapil.xerox}} (last edit June 2017) clearly shared a POV, including lots of explicit support for socks that have been blocked [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pramukh_Swami_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=711985709] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Delhi)&diff=prev&oldid=679422222] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Delhi)&diff=prev&oldid=677268113] and opposition to Swamiblue (even before Swami's indef), but not much writing similarity except for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kkm010&diff=prev&oldid=709808879 this one case of piped-username linking] and generally writing in the same rather-formal register as the rest. I get a sense of some coördination here, but not as much with the others. Again, might just be best to see if he ever returns to editing. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 19:28, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} I actually can't tell if that's a Moksha sock, or a sock of someone on the other side (maybe Swamiblue) trying to take advantage of this SPI to push an anti-BAPS POV, since the {{tl|POV}} tags don't specify which group's "long-term disruption" they're talking about. Either way, seems very unlikely that this is a new user. I mentioned it to Blablubbs on Discord sevarl hours ago but he seems to be AFK. {{ping|L235}} Hate to ping you twice in a row, but since this is more time-sensitive than the rest, mind taking a look? -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 07:13, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

::Hat tip to Katie on Discord for these ones, as well as some of the last few:

::* {{checkuser|Rooneywayne17}}, last edit 2015. Hey look, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=578615079 more use of BLPCRIME] (against Swami socks, too). Note mixed straight/curly quotes, line breaks between paragraphs in comments, and, of course, unlinked policy shortcuts. Parenthesized [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yogiji_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=603160179 here] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=552424319 here]. The latter is them agreeing with Sacredsea, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gunatitanand_Swami&diff=prev&oldid=525871985 here] with HinduPundit (whom we'll get to in a moment).

::* {{checkuser|Bballerparth}}, last edit 2012. Obviously involved somehow. Only three edits, though, so can't say beyond that. Just noting for the record.

::* {{checkuser|HinduPundit}}, last edit 2016. POV very clear from contribs. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Delhi)&diff=prev&oldid=673530247 More] references to Swamiblue (ft. curly quotes). [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transcendence:_My_Spiritual_Experiences_with_Pramukh_Swamiji&diff=prev&oldid=684351657 Agrees] with Actionjackson and Sacredsea (but weirdly also Swamiblue? guess their interests lined up there for whatever reason). [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pramukh_Swami_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=630701011 Unlinked policy shortcuts], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gunatitanand_Swami&diff=prev&oldid=508873541 sometimes] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yogiji_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=626827061 parenthesized] (agreeing with Rooneywayne). Writing style overall shows a bit more divergence, but I'm fairly confident there was explicit coöperation here.

::* {{checkuser|Anastomoses}}, last edit 2019 after a five-year gap. Personally, I don't see much of a case here, but since Katie's been right (or at least not-clearly-wrong) on all the others, I'll include it out of deference to her. I see neither strong writing similarity nor strong signs of POV-pushing, but I could be missing something

::My personal hypothesis is we've got a few separate people (some running one account each, maybe some running more than one, or burning through one after another), who edit occasionally and are from time to time called upon by some ringleader to come participate in a discussion, for which that ringleader tells them what to say; for longer comments the ringleader ghost-writes and says to change the writing style, which some do more than others. Which would explain why you have people who do unlinked policy shortcuts in parentheses for several comments in a row, then link them (but otherwise format them the same), then later go back to not editing what they're given. That's just my guess, but I think it would make sense, and is the framework I'm keeping in mind as I analyze these. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 01:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• {{ping|L235}} Here's a table of everyone who's not (yet) blocked. As you can see, there's three here that I think there's a solid case for blocking, although two of the three are stale, so I understand preferring to wait and see on those. But for PinkElixir, I think I've laid out a good case. If you need more evidence, let me know. Once those three are resolved (with blocks or with decisions not to), I think that wraps up any pending business. The only other potential admin action I propose is GS/CASTE and/or DS/India sanctions for Hexcodes and Golfer, but I don't think they've met that bar yet; just something I note to remind people it's an option. (Sending sanction alerts to everyone might not hurt too, but I have no strong feelings either way.) -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 22:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

class="wikitable sortable" ! Account ! Active? ! Assessment ! Requested action

{{checkuser|Hexcodes}} | {{tick}} | High COI likelihood. Insufficient socking evidence. GeneralNotability thinks {{tq|not part of this group (or at least not using the same playbook)}} | Monitor. Consider GS or DS if necessary.

{{checkuser|Golfer1223}} | {{tick}} (but not since start of SPI) | Moderate COI likelihood. Insufficient socking evidence. GN thinks {{tq|maybe}}. | Monitor. Consider GS or DS if necessary.

{{checkuser|Treehugger8891}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2019) | High COI likelihood. Insufficient socking evidence. | Monitor if they come back

{{checkuser|Coolcactus04}} | {{tick}} | Moderate COI likelihood. No socking evidence. | Monitor

{{checkuser|Tale.Spin}} | {{tick}} (came back from six months' break after being named here) | Apparent POV issues, but middling-low COI likelihood. No socking evidence. | Monitor

{{checkuser|PinkElixir}} | {{tick}} | Likely sock. (See evidence.) | Consider blocking

{{checkuser|Tardispower}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2018) | Apparent POV issues. COI or socking possible. | Monitor if they come back.

{{checkuser|Kapil.xerox}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2017) | Apparent POV issues. COI or socking possible. | Monitor if they come back.

{{checkuser|Rooneywayne17}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2015) | Likely sock. (See evidence.) | Consider blocking, or monitor closely for a return

{{checkuser|Bballerparth}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2012) | Inconclusive. Noting only for the record | Monitor if they come back.

{{checkuser|HinduPundit}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2016) | Possilikely sock, clearly involved somehow though. (See evidence.) | Consider blocking, or monitor closely for a return

{{checkuser|Anastamoses}} | {{cross}} (last edit 2019) | Unlikely. Noting only for the record. | Monitor if desired, but probably not needed.

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

• I have not shared accounts or information on or offline with anyone.

:With regard to my use of Wikipedia, when I made my account in 2020, I found The Wikipedia Adventure (TWA) under "learn to edit" (it is called "A training adventure game" there).

:With regard to my interactions with the editors listed on this page, I have not interacted with Moksha88, Apollo1203, Harshmellow717, and Golfer1223. I have thanked not only Skubydoo but also another user in the post linked by Tamzin, and I have thanked other editors whose edits I have appreciated: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks&user=Hexcodes&page=&wpdate=&tagfilter=]. I have been editing articles relating to my interests in art, architecture, the environment, and literature. But I’m not very interested in medical topics or biology in general, and I have not edited the Swaminarayan Sampradaya page.

:With regard to my edits to the Swaminarayan Akshardham (North America) article, I heard about the allegations outside of Wikipedia. I think it is an interesting court case, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&oldid=1023474097] so I looked it up here. I removed plagiarized text from the article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&oldid=1023058414] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&oldid=1023876361] and I posted on the talk page to clarify my approach and intent. Two weeks later, when I searched Wikipedia for updates, I came across the RfD page we are discussing and read about relevant policies before voting to delete the redirect pages. Nobody asked me to make these edits, and I have not discussed the contents of these pages with anyone offline.

:Tamzin, I appreciate that you consider [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hexcodes#About_me| my English] to be "clear" and "fluent." My language and bedtime reflect my nationality, which will be reflected by my IP address. Hexcodes (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• I joined Wikipedia in March of 2019, therefore it is impossible for me to have worked with any Wikipedia user for 6 years as is being alleged. I do not know any of the users mentioned in this SPI outside of Wikipedia and I am not a user of any of the accounts listed in this investigation or of any other account except for Apollo1203.

:Regarding a sockpuppet case with Swamiblue, after user Applebutter221 was proven to be a sockpuppet of Swamiblue, I, individually, removed his edits from articles as per [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dealing_with_sockpuppets#Cleaning_up_after_a_sock_puppet_is_blocked Wikipedia guidance].

:I requested pending changes review privileges in response to the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vachanamrut&diff=983456314&oldid=983456309&diffmode=source disruptive editing and vandalism] that was on the Vachanamrut article. An article I had spent significant time researching, reviewing, and improving. I was granted such [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Apollo1203&diff=983686249&oldid=980842580&diffmode=source rights October 2020] but I am unaware how applying and receiving these rights (by an admin) implicates me to other users? I posted my intent to revamp the Vachanamrut article on the Swaminarayan Wikiproject. Users Harshmellow and Moksha88 are 2 of 31 users in the project, so it is not a coincidence or a conspiracy that they also edit and engage on similar articles related to the Swaminarayan Wikiproject as myself.

:Regarding the use of my sandbox: the purpose of the sandbox is to experiment with edits, templates, and other Wikipedia functions. I would assume all Wikipedia editors utilize this function to avoid errors in article edits or talk page posts. {{u|Tamzin}}, please see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About_the_sandbox] for more information on sandbox use.

:Investigating my syntax in talk pages seems farfetched. I typically copy the mentions or shortcuts based on what is available in the source code prior to me. I don’t think this is a Wikipedia violation or indication of ‘sockpuppeting.’

:{{u|Blablubbs}} I am not a pharmacist as you have falsely stated. If you read my user page, I explain that my uncle, a professor of pharmacy, introduced me to the study of religion.

:I checked the edit history between Blablubbs and Tamzin and I can’t seem to find where this particular SPI was discussed ‘a fair bit.’ Both users acknowledge discussing yet there is no record of it on Wikipedia. If it was done offline, I’m curious what was said that could not be discussed on talk pages? Maybe these two users know each other outside of Wikipedia? Apollo1203 (talk) 21:10, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Woah I'm not a sockpuppet and I don't know any of these people. I am a pharmacist but I don't see why I'm being called a sockpuppet. I have been learning how to use Wikipedia just by looking around and reading about the Wiki world. I guess I'm being investigated for contributing my opinion! I won't let that stop me from chiming in on other discussions.Golfer1223 (talk) 04:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

• As my edit history reflects, I briefly edited in 2006-2007 before taking a hiatus until 2019. In this time, I have edited broadly. I started with articles related to the Swaminarayan Sampradaya and expanded to other interests, like COVID-19, multiple myeloma, palliative care https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Moksha88#top-edited-pages 1. As I am part of the Swaminarayan Wikiproject, I have I interacted with a number of other editors who are part of that Wikiproject including Apollo and Harshmellow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Swaminarayan 2. Outside of this capacity, I do not personally know any of the users in the Swaminarayan Wikiproject nor do I know the other 3 editors.

:Tamzin cites the barnstar I gave to Apollo for improving the Vachanamrut article as evidence that I get along well with others. Parts of the previous version of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vachanamrut&oldid=928900960 article] was plagiarized from a BAPS [https://www.baps.org/Article/2011/The-Vachan%C3%A3mrut-An-Introduction-2193.aspx essay], and Apollo improved this article significantly. Typically, socks give barnstars to establish their credibility in conversations (WP:OVERBARN). I would encourage Tamzin and Blablubbs to find an edit where the lone barnstar I ever gave was ever cited to establish credibility in a conversation. And when others overlook core policy, I have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AApollo1203&type=revision&diff=941532581&oldid=940669720 pointed] it out in a civil way.

:To my knowledge, the only “socking dating back to 2015” highlighted by Tamzin is that of Swamiblue, which actually dates back to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Swamiblue/Archive 2013]. Swamiblue reemerged as 2 socks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Swamiblue/Archive#17_July_2020 1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Swamiblue/Archive#28_September_2020 2 following the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ABbb23&type=revision&diff=963959711&oldid=963200424 retirement] of Bbb23, the admin who had previously blocked Swamiblue. In July 2020, I filed the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Swamiblue/Archive#17_July_2020 initial SPI] against Applebutter, and it took 15 days before the case was closed. Had it not been for our collective efforts over this interval, this user’s battleground behavior https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHarshmellow717&type=revision&diff=968860855&oldid=968860823 1https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=980411421 2 and the degradation of existing articles with the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=prev&oldid=970571407 removal of reliable sources] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pramukh_Swami_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=967835587 BLP violations] would have gone uncorrected. Tamzin seems to have overlooked these edits in the Swaminarayan Sampradaya article and others in highlighting how we “relentlessly worked together to skew talkpage discussions in [our] favor.”

:Finally, I would encourage those accusing me to identify any edits I made related to the allegations raised against Akshardham in the last 2 weeks or colluded with others to remove any “negative content.*”https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(North_America)&action=history 1https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&action=history 2 In fact, I have been incorporating information related to the COVID-19 response on each of the BAPS North America mandir articles, where coverage is better represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Chino_Hills&diff=prev&oldid=1024986819 1https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Toronto&type=revision&diff=1025165819&oldid=1025156866 2https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Atlanta&type=revision&diff=1024986756&oldid=1022726748 3https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Chicago&type=revision&diff=1023742474&oldid=1021166880 4https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28North_America%29&type=revision&diff=1024986703&oldid=1024105224 5 It’s unclear to me how I was votestacking in the absence of “selectively notifiying” others or tagteaming with them about the RfD discussion.

:Altogether, Tamzin and Blablubbs have raised allegations against me which are unsubstantiated and circumstantial. It’s unfortunate they confuse stewardship with tag teaming, and I would encourage them to review their evidence more closely the next time they go through the trouble to lodge these complaints. Moksha88 (talk) 16:08, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

• To answer the query by {{User|L235}} I do not know any of the users listed in the SPI outside of Wikipedia. I came across {{User|Moksha88}}, {{User|Apollo1203}}, and {{User|Skubydoo}} when editing the Swaminarayan Sampradaya article. I do not recall directly interacting with {{User|Hexcodes}} and {{User|Golfer1223}}.

:With regards to {{User|Tamzin}} and {{User|Blablubbs}} points about similarities between users. There are more than 41 million registered users on the English Wikipedia. I’d imagine there is significant overlap between users in their choice of templates, wiki formatting, and editing style. I have picked up template and formatting preferences by emulating what other editors are doing. I live and work in NYC and my editing times are based on my availability.

:I do attempt to work with other users in a collaborative manner to avoid hostility and maintain civility. Outside of Swaminarayan related articles I mostly make edits fixing grammar and adding/verifying citations. I became involved in the discussion about the Swaminarayan Akshardham controversy when I edited a few BAPS related articles as per (WP:RSBREAKING and WP:OR). I then reached out to the editor who created the 2021 Swaminarayan Akshardham controversy page ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Skippy2520&diff=prev&oldid=1024077452 see diff]) and got involved in the RFD after receiving no response from the editor.

:{{User|Blablubbs}} I am a Molecular Biologist not a Microbiologist, and NOT a sockpuppet. The assertation that two editors who have both expressed interest in Indian music is indicative of sockpuppetry is just silly. I highly suggest that {{User|Tamzin}} and {{User|Blablubbs}} read WP:NOASSUMESOCK and WP:WORLDVIEW. Harshmellow717 (talk) 03:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

• Hi all,

The discussions pertaining to me and my edits have been addressed below:

First, I noticed that the reasons cited on the RfD page to support that this redirect page should not be kept are from WP:RFD#KEEP. Rather than engaging in the ongoing discussion on the RfD page, it appears that Tamzin filed an SPI. It should be noted that WP:CHECK says that Checkuser should not be used in order to threaten editors into compliance.

Second, I did not remove anything from the Swaminarayan Akshardham (North America) article. {{talkquote| And all six really don't want Wikipedia to discuss}} I’ll quickly recap my participation. Another user had removed the allegations, and I agreed with leaving it off for the time being, per WP:SUSPECT. When an editor clarified this sub-policy on the talk page, I helped integrate it more thoroughly into the article instead. “Segregation of text or other content into different regions or subsections, based solely on the apparent POV of the content itself, may result in an unencyclopedic structure, such as a back-and-forth dialogue between proponents and opponents. It may also create an apparent hierarchy of fact where details in the main passage appear “true” and “undisputed”, whereas other, segregated material is deemed “controversial”, and therefore more likely to be false” -- WP:STRUCTURE. Further, I clarified the article through copy edits. Perhaps Tamzin mistook my participation in the talk page discussion for my edits.

Third, I edit articles about human rights, like UN Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief, Convention on Consent to Marriage, Murder of Laquan McDonald, and Chicago Police Department as well as articles about animal rights, hence my pharmaceutical-related not {{talkquote| pharmacy-related}} edits on Animal products in pharmaceuticals.

Fourth, I noticed that others have given remarks on English fluency. Could you explain why it is notable that articles related to South Asian religious traditions are edited by English speakers, and particularly ‘’’fluent’’’ English speakers?

Lastly, if the use of the phrase "New to Wikipedia." is indeed uncommon, then why is it being noted? In any case, “New to Wikipedia” was my response to the ubiquitous new user welcome message “New to Wikipedia?” Proud to have made over 600 contributions since then and looking forward to making more in the future. Will be sure to link policies and essays from now on. Thank you for reviewing this information.

Best wishes, Skubydoo (talk) 03:59, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tamzin,  

While others may find comments about English fluency flattering, that is not how it comes across to me and this can be perceived as a personal attack. Many people of color find such comments to be racist. Please see some examples and explanations of this phenomenon of racial microagression at the following links for reference: 

[https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html] 

[https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7495599] 

[https://www.aaihs.org/inarticulate-while-black/] 

[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/articulate-compliment-ending-pervasive-culture-uwemedimo-md-mph] 

First, to me, Tamzin’s assertion that for editors of Hinduism-related topics to have "clear, fluent English" is so surprising that it is indicative of fraud evokes the racist trope explained in the links I have posted. The reason I am not exploring further action on this point, but merely hoping to educate the editor who is making this offensive implication , is that it is not clear whether the racism here is purposeful or merely inadvertent.   

Second, if it is true that editors on Hinduism-related topics "statistically" do not have clear, fluent English, then Wikipedia articles on Hinduism-related topics should be systemically riddled with poor English, grammatical errors, etc. While this is the implication of Tamzin’s argument, I have found to the contrary, that the majority of Wikipedia articles on Hinduism-related topics have been written in clear, fluent English by editors who would have to have clear, fluent English.  

Moreover, Tamzin writes that they’re making a "statistical observation." The idea of considering "six random editors" of Hinduism-related topics does not apply to this situation, since edit history shows that Golfer1223 and Hexcodes have not previously edited "in the topic area of Hinduism." When considering "overall statistical trends," randomness cannot be the first six elements which are chosen, particularly when there is no chance involved and when the total population has not been considered at all. That’s a "cherry-picked list." 

Third, it’s unclear, without any examples given, what Tamzin considers similarities in "speech register." The article which is linked by Tamzin correctly explains that register is determined by two factors, namely, the use and the user. On Wikipedia, the use of language is the same for everyone. WP:EQ says politeness, civility, and clear and accessible explanations are important, so it is no wonder that most users would invoke a similar speech register. Further, the use of language is even more similar among editors who edit in South Asian religious traditions. I personally am accustomed to practicing sensitivity and clarity in my posting as the result of past experiences. Similarities in users indeed exist; as do differences. 

Fourth, I did not say anything relating language fluency to "moral judgement." Since Tamzin brought it up, though, here is the "judgement" more explicitly explained: Tamzin’s initial statement "people who speak less-than-fluent English... we have a few top-notch admins who fall into that category." implies that "less-than-fluent" speakers can either be "top-notch admins" or users who edit articles "in the topic area of Hinduism" without drawing suspicion from Tamzin.  

Fifth, Tamzin asserts that "All six editors' timecards show a bedtime of around 5PM-6PMAM UTC, although with varying amounts of nighttime activity." I fail to see how a 13-hour span of time as a bedtime is indicative of six editors being a single user. 

Taken together, an unquantified statistical analysis, an unsubstantiated reference to linguistic patterns, and an amended statement about a valued minority don't show "behavioral similarities." Despite these frustrating allegations, Checkuser will show that I am not any of these other accounts.  

A note for admins: if Tamzin’s conclusions based on "clear, fluent English" and "sleep schedule" point to a shared geographic location and presumably justify Checkuser, why also explicitly infer "North America" as a common location? I don’t think that posting about the presumed location of other editors is a productive use for a public forum.

Best wishes, Skubydoo (talk) 20:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tamzin,

I am not saying that you are racist. What I am saying is that the argument made presuming lack of English fluency of editors of Hinduism-related topics can be seen as such. I think it is important to be conscious of such potential biases and seek to correct them when such occasions do arise. If we do so, we then don’t need to worry about what we do and do not know about each other's identities based on a limited amount of information available. I apologize if I caused offense, but I do hope you can re-read my comments and take them seriously.

My fourth point above is not gaslighting as it quotes directly from the edit history of this page, which is why I called it your “initial statement.”

Thank you for clarifying your point that all users have a bedtime of 5AM-6AM. Looking at the timecard post made by Blablubbs, the 5AM-6AM bedtime only applies to two users Golfer1223 and Apollo1203, and not to any of the others, so even the corrected statement is not accurate. There would be millions of people who share that bedtime, so to have two editors share it out of the six accused of sockpuppetry is not very convincing.

I think a useful explanatory supplement here is WP:COMPETENCE. In it, we see that the first thing one may presume in editing English Wikipedia is for users to have “the ability to read and write English well enough to avoid introducing incomprehensible text into articles and to communicate effectively.” I am not commenting on anyone’s language proficiency or whether they speak English as a first language. I am suggesting, however, that competence should be and is a safe assumption on Wikipedia, and demonstration of language competence cannot be an indication of sockpuppetry.

I feel the articles I sent will help illuminate the point I am making, and I do hope you read them. Thank you.

Best wishes, Skubydoo (talk) 18:12, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

More accounts are probably involved; see, for example [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_Swaminarayan_sect&action=history Talk:Criticism of Swaminarayan sect: Revision history], User:ThaNDNman224 and User:Actionjackson09. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:20, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

:I have been kind of watching from the sidelines and want to thank the admins for their due diligence in sussing out this meat/sock puppetry. I have had my doubts for a while by following the history of this user group and how heavily they gang up on anyone trying to make edits that don't fit their pro-baps narrative. User:Peaceray had given me some guidance on how to combat this and I had tried to create an NPOV request against Moksha and Apollo to get a fresh opinion on a change to which Skubydoo responded as the supposed "neutral" entity. They completely lop sided consensus in a dispute resolution request: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_193#Swaminarayan_Sampradaya. They even made me cry at one point because of how they would attack from every angle about previous edits made and current ones and endless circular discussions. There is another account that I came across with something like "SacredSea" in the name that was doing reverts for them where they would trap other users in 3RRs but avoid it themselves by using that account. I will try to find the exact account. Thanks to the admins here for all their hard work. Kbhatt22 (talk) 13:30, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

::For the record: a brand-new account, User:Chipsandipz, is adding NPOV-tags to several Swaminarayan-related articles. That's typical. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

:::Everyone moves so fast lol. I was waiting for another edit or two to pin which group it was before raising the flag on that account last night. I think that ones SwamiBlue. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Sampradaya&diff=979860498&oldid=979860145 The Baps only removal attempt/reasoning] on it was made by one of SwamiBlues accounts in the past. Apollo and Kevpopz edit warred on it extensively around September 2020 so strong inclination its at least one of the two sides. Kbhatt22 (talk) 12:31, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

::::Please take a look at User:Desi samurai as well, a new 'anti'-BAPS-editor. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

• {{Endorse}} - I've indeed discussed this with Tamzin, and I think there's grounds for a check here. My operating assumption is that we're probably looking at two sockmasters who are coordinating somehow. Some notes:
• There are similarities in their pings, namely that all of them use templates inconsistently and that they change over time; many use long-form templates ({{tl|reply to}} or {{tl|user}} as opposed to the more commonly used shortcuts; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=970083027 Apollo][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=976615386 Harshmellow][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=978637037 Moksha], though apollo uses {{tl|u}} elsewhere, as does Skubydoo). Previously (and importantly before the reply tool was a thing), many accounts used piped links ({{code|$1}}) to ping: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Morari_Bapu&diff=prev&oldid=927844886]; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=967969712]; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=968098817]; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bochasanwasi_Akshar_Purushottam_Swaminarayan_Sanstha&diff=prev&oldid=927271765][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jiva&diff=prev&oldid=927977030].
• I also note userpage similarities: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Apollo1203 Apollo] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Golfer1223 Golfer] both describe themselves as pharmacists, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Harshmellow717 Harshmellow] professes to be a microbiologist, and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Apollo1203 Apollo] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Harshmellow717 Harshmellow] both profess interest in Indian music.
• There is a distinct and unusual timecard pattern for Harshmellow and Golfer ([https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-timecard/en.wikipedia.org/Harshmellow717][https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-timecard/en.wikipedia.org/Golfer1223]) with clusters of activity in the same narrow time range (0100-0500 UTC). Apollo also has a strong cluster there ([https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-timecard/en.wikipedia.org/Apollo1203]), and the others are broadly similar as well ([https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-timecard/en.wikipedia.org/Skubydoo][https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-timecard/en.wikipedia.org/Hexcodes]).
• There is topical overlap outside of BAPS; Golfer and Skubydoo both edit pharmacy-related articles ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pharmacies_in_the_United_States&action=history][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hospital_pharmacy&action=history][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Animal_products_in_pharmaceuticals&action=history])
• There are similar edit summaries, though they're not entirely consistent across all accounts{{snd}}one distinct behaviour is referring to policies in edit/revert summaries without linking them, and sometimes leaving a space after {{code|WP:}}: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pras%C4%81da&diff=prev&oldid=1025405663][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pras%C4%81da&diff=prev&oldid=1025406201][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Bean_Trees&diff=prev&oldid=999223505][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Atlanta&diff=prev&oldid=1022726748][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Satsangi_Jivan&diff=prev&oldid=970715494][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mahant_Swami_Maharaj&diff=prev&oldid=1008805220][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hinduism&diff=prev&oldid=991049896]. I also note that Apollo and Moksha both use the present participle in most of theirs [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Moksha88][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Apollo1203&target=Apollo1203].
• Golfer and Hexcodes both started out on Wikipedia doing TWA, which Harshmellow also completed following a return from hibernation in 2019. Moksha was also reactivated in 2019 (albeit a few months apart), after having slept for 10 years. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Skubydoo&oldid=683698844 Skubydoo's first edit] was to create their talk page with the phrase "New to Wikipedia.", which is something that is fairly uncommon among people who are indeed new to Wikipedia.
• Combined with the suspected votestacking at RFD, the topical overlap, POV, tag teaming on talk pages and [https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=Moksha88&users=Apollo1203&users=Skubydoo+&users=Harshmellow717&users=Hexcodes+&users=Golfer1223+&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki substantial overlap between some of them], I think CU is warranted to sort out what exactly is going on here and to look for others. I'm aware that Apollo has been checked in the past, but I think it is worth revisiting this and comparing all the accounts here to each other. Thanks. --Blablubbs|talk 12:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
• Putting this on hold awaiting responses from the users. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:26, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
• {{yo|Apollo1203}} Sorry about the professor confusion. Tamzin asked me for advice on Discord, and I offered some{{snd}}it's not unusual for people to ask for second opinions off-wiki if they're not sure about something. --Blablubbs|talk 21:13, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
• I just want to mention that I haven't forgotten about this{{snd}}I was away from internet for about a week and am catching up; this is just a more complicated case than normal. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 05:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
• When I last checked some weeks ago, the result was {{unrelated}}.
• Nonetheless, the behavioral evidence is so convincing that I am compelled to block, for now, Moksha88, Apollo1203, Skubydoo, and Harshmellow717. No comment as to whether they're technically-proficient socks or WP:MEAT. I am still considering Hexcodes and Golfer1223. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 01:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• The best available behavioral evidence indeed suggests that {{checkuser|Actionjackson09}} is part of the Moksha88 group. Blocked. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 05:33, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• Blocking Sacredsea on behavioral evidence as well. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 01:59, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
• :{{u|L235}}, my impression is that Hexcodes is not part of this group (or at least not using the same playbook), Golfer is a "maybe". It might be worth going to ECP on some of the relevant pages, since there appear to be two separate sock farms interested in the topic of BAPS (this one pro-BAPS, Swamiblue anti-BAPS). Frankly, my suspicion is significant off-wiki coordination is afoot here, though I have some questions about the precise methodology. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:57, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
• Behaviorally blocking ThaNDNman224 as well. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 05:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
• {{re|Tamzin}} Great work on all of these. Is a resolution on any of the unblocked accounts a priority before this case can be closed? I'm having a bit of trouble keeping track of which accounts need action because they're actively editing vs. which ones can be tracked for future reference. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 22:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Closing this out. I'm going with not proven on PinkElixir for now: while they do share several similarities with the other editors and I'm admittedly suspicious of them, I don't see enough to convince me that they are part of a meatfarm, and so I am choosing to err on the side of caution. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:48, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

----

{{sock list|1=SpunkyGeek|2=Eucalyptusmint|3=RealPharmer3|4=Ram112313|5=Schwinnspeed|tools_link=yes}}

All of these accounts were created around the time(Ram112313) or after the Moksha88 fiasco(rest of the users). And resumed editing after the previous socks were blocked. All of these users are engaging in pro-BAPS editing and attempting to continue the removal of details about the lawsuit from the article citing a dubious consensus between members of this sockfarm [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1254576487][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1022725929][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1255223744][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1255222321]. And supporting the said removal on talkpage [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1249547814][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1254466748][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1022728213][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1022725821][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1022886652]. They all have extensive overlap with socks that were blocked in 2021[https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=RealPharmer3&users=Eucalyptusmint&users=Ram112313&users=SpunkyGeek&users=Moksha88&users=Harshmellow717&users=Skubydoo&users=Apollo1203&users=Schwinnspeed&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki]. Spunkygeek has uploaded hundreds of BAPS owned images to commons stating that they have permissions from the BAPS to upload them.[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SpunkyGeek#c-SpunkyGeek-20240815063900-Sbb1413-20240815052000] Apollo1203 did the same and the permission for uploading the images was verified by VRT[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=50&user=SpunkyGeek][https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/Apollo1203]

Resumption of promotional editing by RealPharmer3 on BAPS Charities [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Charities&diff=prev&oldid=1139913797][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Charities&diff=prev&oldid=1024987164][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Charities&diff=prev&oldid=1139912627] right where the socks left off. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Moksha88#c-Kbhatt22-20241126134700-Comments_by_other_users see Kbhatt's post below]

Both Spunkygeek and Eucalyptusmint have extensively edited Narmada River [https://sigma.toolforge.org/timeline.py?page=Narmada_River&users=Ram112313&users=Skubydoo&users=Apollo1203&users=Schwinnspeed&users=RealPharmer3&users=Eucalyptusmint&users=Moksha88&users=SpunkyGeek&users=Harshmellow717&server=enwiki] and Sabarmati River [https://sigma.toolforge.org/timeline.py?page=Sabarmati_River&users=Ram112313&users=Skubydoo&users=Apollo1203&users=Schwinnspeed&users=RealPharmer3&users=Eucalyptusmint&users=Moksha88&users=SpunkyGeek&users=Harshmellow717&server=enwiki] On Narendra Modi both cited same essay [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1244454281][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1242497969] in edit summaries.

- Ratnahastin (talk) 06:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Both Moksha88 and Realpharmer3 have a strong (and almost exclusive) interest in BAPS and medicine. [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Moksha88/0][https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/RealPharmer3/0][https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=RealPharmer3&users=Moksha88&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki] especially relating to COVID-19[https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/RealPharmer3/0/Viral%20vector%20vaccine][https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Moksha88/0/COVID-19]. Both have introduced promotional material pertaining to BAPS charities and their COVID-19 efforts.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1142016150][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1142015936][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1142015517][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1139920588][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1139913797][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1139912627][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1024987164][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1024986916][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/951129329] - Ratnahastin (talk) 14:23, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

I'd also wondered already about RealPharmer; too many similarities with that sockfarm. See their pov-pushing on : Michael Witzel, and their WP:SEALIONING at Talk:Michael Witzel#Criticsm and Talk:Michael Witzel#Reddif-interview and Pacific News Service, similar to the endless overly polite requests for clarification, sources, etc. at Talk:Swaminarayan. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I have had concerns with Realpharma as well. Particularly on the BAPS_Charities as shortly after the ban in 2021 I had removed some questionable metrics that relied on a COI source (the entity itself) where Apollo and Moksha were citing the organizations own annual report to promote their every activity. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Charities&diff=prev&oldid=1071059092 1]. Realpharma made a strong push to reinclude the exact same information with other sources (almost 2 years later) and in a different format to retain the socks original content [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BAPS_Charities&diff=prev&oldid=1142016150 2]. I ended up walking away from the circular discussion but found it odd that such a specific edit by the socks being removed had such a strong desire to resurface from an account just walking into the Swaminarayan content space. Specifically the baps content space.

I have noticed some similar patterns recently as employed by the socks in 2021 prior to the ban. Important to note that there were half a dozen accounts banned for multi-year meat puppetry but also over half a dozen accounts suspected of involvement and their involvement in the Swaminarayan content would come under a lens post the issued bans.....Almost all accounts that were reviewed and not banned have since all gone dormant/inactive. I would not be all that shocked if over a dozen accounts engaged in POV pushing and consensus stacking over many years didn't eventually resurface. Kbhatt22 (talk) 13:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@SPI Admins, the only way I found out that I'm under review is looking through Ratnahastin's edit history. That does feel a little bizarre to me, but regardless I will cooperate with whatever investigation is ongoing.

In the meantime, I do think it's especially interesting that this is being brought forward by Ratnahastin, when all I've witnessed from him on the Swaminarayan Akshardham page is a pretty clear POV push (that is until he finally added [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28Robbinsville%2C_New_Jersey%29&diff=1255541377&oldid=1255222321] some relevant context after ultimately being called out for edit warring and not engaging in the ongoing discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASwaminarayan_Akshardham_%28New_Jersey%29&diff=1255223744&oldid=1254947654]) All of this feels particularly notable when you consider his previous topic ban and subsequent appeal [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1192548555#Topic_ban_appeal])

The page history clearly shows a coordinated strategy between him, Capitals00, and CharlesWain to trap users into an edit war and get them blocked [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28Robbinsville%2C_New_Jersey%29&diff=1255541377&oldid=1255222321]. None of these users (Ratnahastin, CharlesWain, Capitals00) have edited the page except for restoring/reverting the same piece of content in the lead : ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1248896362], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28New_Jersey%29&diff=1254055264&oldid=1252384094], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=next&oldid=1254947172]). This plus an initial refusal to engage on the talk page: ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASwaminarayan_Akshardham_%28New_Jersey%29&diff=1249118287&oldid=1242487610], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=next&oldid=1249721805]), and the fact that CharlesWain and Capitals00 conveniently return when Ratnahastin can no longer make back to back reverts without violating 3RR [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_%28Robbinsville%2C_New_Jersey%29&diff=1259448708&oldid=1259439134].

This shows a coordinated strategy between the three and should be taken into consideration as well. ([https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=Capitals00&users=CharlesWain&users=Ratnahastin&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki Editor Interaction Analysis for Ratnahastin, CharlesWain, Capitals00])] Schwinnspeed (talk) 03:16, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello Admins,

This is the first time I have been accused of being a sockpuppet, which has come as a complete shock to me. However, I trust this platform and its admins to conduct a fair and thorough investigation.

Now, addressing User:Ratnahastin claims:

In their post, it is stated that:

"All of these accounts were created around the time(Ram112313) or after the Moksha88 fiasco(rest of the users). And resumed editing after the previous socks were blocked. All of these users are engaging in pro-BAPS editing and attempting to continue the removal of details about the lawsuit from the article citing a dubious consensus between members of this sockfarm. And supporting the said removal on talkpage."

This is categorically false, as I have never removed the content from the article nor argued that it should be removed from the article. The conversation is about if a POV edit was appropriate for inclusion in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(Robbinsville,_New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1247178330 LEDE], particularly since there were significant counterclaims and the investigation is on hold.

It's also worth noting that I have refrained from further modifying the content during the discussion, demonstrating good faith, whereas Ratnahastin has actively engaged in reverting and editing the content which is being questioned and against WP:STATUSQUO

Additionally, I would like to address another claim:

I am being grouped with other users with whom I have had no contact, except for User: Eucalyptusmint, and that was only regarding the Narmada and Sabarmati pages which aren't related to Swaminarayan topics and have disagreed with them specifically on splitting the page.

About the Narendra Modi page I don't find any logic behind comparing two different edit summaries [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1244454281 1] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1242497969 2] which are based on two different sections and have completely different context.

About User:Ram112313 - I agree that his block was valid because there was a violation of 3RR. However, User:Ratnahastin also violated 3RR by slow-motion edit warring and here are the links to those edits - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(Robbinsville,_New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1259635906 3] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(Robbinsville,_New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1255541377 4]. I hope there are repercussions for them.

Also, I don't recall interacting with User:RealPharmer - the only exception I think is when they agreed to split the Akshardham New Jersey page, where I [http://Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(Robbinsville,_New_Jersey)#Confusing_mandir_details disagreed].

Lastly, regarding the pictures:

If I have uploaded BAPS pictures with proper permissions, does that automatically make me a sockpuppet - I find this reasoning flawed. The fact that a sockpuppet has also uploaded pictures with permissions does that mean that anyone who does the same in the future is a sockpuppet? - This logic is, quite frankly, absurd.

I appreciate that this issue has been brought forward, as it offers an opportunity to address the unfounded claims being made. Unfortunately, User:Ratnahastin's tactics appear to be aimed at discrediting others and seem unchanged despite previous reprimands for similar actions.

I trust the admins to see through this baseless accusation and deliver a fair and just resolution for the betterment of Wikipedia.

Thank you.SpunkyGeek (talk) 23:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: saw this linked on the article talk and am honestly surprised that I've been accused here. Either way, all I've got to say is that there's no factual evidence or any truth to this claim based on the interaction tool, as my edit history speaks for itself. I edit a lot of other river articles because of my interest as well as plants, national parks, hindu deities, among other things. So how is the claim that the Narmada River has been extensively edited by both relevant? Have you read WP:ECA?

On the Narmada page I made a lot of copyedits, finding citations for unsourced content and worked on improving the article based on my interests in geology, archeology, and the role of rivers in Hinduism (I've done the same on other river articles as well, see Kaveri and also Yamuna). So if I was a SPA and wanted to push POV would there not be clear evidence for those occurrences?

Also, I've never even edited the Narendra Modi page (take a look at my history), so that claim is also false. Please stop casting WP:ASPERSIONS, I'm concerned you may have WP:SOCKOPHOBIA. I'm WP:HERE for the encyclopedia and not to engage in WP:SOCK or WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior. Eucalyptusmint (talk) 02:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• All accounts with edits in the last 90 days are {{unrelated}} from each other. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 18:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• closing Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 16:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Unarchiving this. It would have been surprising if there was any CU match here; there wasn't last time, and my working theory has been that this is something along the lines of people who met on a Facebook group or Discord all posting comments at the direction of some ringleader. I think I see grounds for at least one block here. Stay tuned. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 07:39, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
• First, I'll note that ToBeFree blocked Ram112313 in December for promoting BAPS.{{pb}}Moving on to SpunkyGeek; I came to look at the archived case while looking into their conduct related to an AE thread. At a minimum, we can start with Spunky having some kind of COI with BAPS, which is a better starting point than we've had with any past sock. As noted above, Spunky said on Commons that they were uploading images on behalf of, or at least in concert with, BAPS. They used many of these images to create a large gallery at Swaminarayan Akshardham (Robbinsville, New Jersey). The filer notes that Apollo1203 also uploaded BAPS-approved images to Commons. Not just that, though: Apollo also used those to make a large gallery for a BAPS mandir. SpunkyGeek's comment on the Robbinsville Swaminarayan mandir's talkpage, searching for a policy justification for removing the human trafficking allegations from the lede, is similar to those of Moksha & co. in 2021. I'm not saying that no reasonable person could want to omit the controversy from the lede; but there was always something about the way Moksha sox wrote, down to the RfD that first got me to investigate them in 2021, where they namedrop a policy or guideline and then make a basically unrelated argument for obscuring the human trafficking allegations. This has that same ring—whether it's a ring specific to Moksha, or just the well-known sound of a POV-pusher reasoning toward a foregone conclusion.{{pb}}Writing style and timecard are those of a native(-like) English speaker living in North America, as with previous Moksha sox. As last time, this is notable because most editors in this topic area live in India and are non-native speakers. In the end, the only question I'm left with is whether SpunkyGeek is a Moksha sock per se, or whether they are "just" someone else here to subtly but perniciously promote BAPS. But that isn't really a meaningful distinction. As noted above, we all already know that "Moksha88" doesn't mean one person, but rather some group of related people who work in concert to push a pro-BAPS POV. Does the person behind User:SpunkyGeek know the person behind User:Moksha88? I have no idea. Are they working for the same people to advance the same agenda? Yes. I have blocked SpunkyGeek accordingly.{{pb}}I have to head off for a bit, so I'm going to leave it at SpunkyGeek for now. I will look into the three remaining cases later. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 08:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
• I'm unconvinced by the evidence on RealPharmer vs. Moksha w/r/t COVID, but I'm convinced based on the evidence presented, particularly regarding BAPS Charities, that they have an undisclosed COI with BAPS and have been adding poorly-sourced content to promote it. At {{slink|Talk:Michael_Witzel#Reddif-interview_and_Pacific_News_Service}} we have that characteristic grasping-at-policy-straws to remove undesirable content, this time content about Witzel's criticism of Hindutva organizations. BAPS is linked to such organizations. That saga goes in an interesting direction... {{noping2|Jtbobwaysf}}, a very experienced editor, also appears on that talkpage, making a similarly uncanny-valley policy argument, that WP:NOCRIT limits coverage of criticism by the BLP subject. It was Jtbobwaysf who later took Joshua Jonathan to AN/I over this dispute, backed up by RealPharmer. This is strange, but after reviewing the user's other edits, my working theory is that Jtbob's role is a coincidence.{{pb}}Back to RealPharmer, also of note: They are the only one here created before the '21 SPI, and there are some noticeable userpage similarities to pharmacology-inclined editors {{noping|Skubydoo}}, {{noping|Golfer1223}} (never blocked, but more likely than not a sock; went inactive after SPI), and {{noping|Apollo1203}}. All things considered, I see sufficient evidence that RealPharmer is here to stealthily promote BAPS, and more likely than not with some affiliation to the '21 Moksha ring. Blocked indefinitely, with the same caveat as above, that this is not necessarily saying they're directly working with the last group, although if there's any sock that's most likely of here, it'd be RealPharmer.{{pb}}Not much evidence has been presented for Eucalyptusmint. They were the one to remove the gallery from the Robbinsville Swaminarayan Akshardham article, which doesn't sound like meatpuppetry; while Moksha&co. have been known in the past to stage minor disagreements to form a better faux-consensus, that doesn't really look like how this discussion went. It's plausible that they have a COI or inability to maintain NPOV of their own, but I don't think (based on what I've seen so far) that they are a Moksha meatpuppet. Schwinnspeed is a similar situation. I'm really torn on this, because {{slink|Talk:Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(Robbinsville,_New_Jersey)#Confusing_mandir_details}} (featuring every alleged sock here minus Ram) does look like that kind of faux-consensus Moksha was known to orchestrate, but that's not enough on its own, and one must be wary of seeing ghosts. Ultimately, here's where I come down: I'm not going to block either, although I'd be open to more evidence. I'm very, very open to imposing some kind of WP:GS/CASTE sanctions here, either on users or on the article or talkpage. But I'm not going to do that over a dispute that, at this point, has been cool for a few months. {{re|Ratnahastin|Joshua Jonathan|Kbhatt22}} If disruption resumes on the Robbinsville Swaminarayan Akshardham article, let me know. Or really if it resumes anywhere, but there in particular, since GS/CASTE gives me a lot of options. (Re)closing for now. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 21:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
• :Thanks for the ping! I'm strongly impressed. Thank you very much for unarchiving and analyzing this behaviorally in such detail. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:52, 17 February 2025 (UTC)
• :Oh, a thing I forgot to mention: In the "Confusing mandir details" discussion, SpunkyGeek left what appears to be an AI-generated comment, which is then handily rebutted by Schwinnspeed. So if one were arguing that it's one of Moksha's faux-consensuses, that might make sense: Use a bad AI-written argument to sabotage the other side. But again, could be seeing ghosts. And notably the merge/split question isn't a clearly pro-/anti-BAPS thing (the non-pro-BAPS editors split on it), so it might be closer to a conscience vote for Moksha meatpuppets. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 23:12, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

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