Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NutmegCoffeeTea/Archive

{{sock list|1=176.113.180.173|2=181.90.227.246|3=95.90.245.116|4=83.135.3.117|5=BlackVulcanX|tools_link=yes}}

Various IPs and now accounts making exactly the same edit. Suggested motive is that I abruptly shut NCT down at Talk:History of Africa#Periodisation when she was just trying to help. Edit warring by the IPs led to the page being semi-protected but that seems to have since expired and disruption continued. Two IPs also left me warnings. first time doing this so apologies if I made any mistakes

Edits from Nov 14-18:

• NutmegCoffeeTea: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257425683] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257426036] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257426333] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257431206] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257431912] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257432258]
• 176.113.180.173: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257659190] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257853551] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1257941000] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1258172379] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1258203937]
• 181.90.227.246: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1258103608 attempt to gain numerical advantage]

Page semi-protected as a result of the above (AN3RR and ANI), next edits from Feb 16-21:

• 95.90.245.116: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1276106575]
• 83.135.3.117: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1276110469]
• BlackVulcanX: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1276479298] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1276845781] Kowal2701 (talk) 09:41, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Half of edits aren't even similar. It's the same content because it's a public proposal on the article talk page. Kowal2701 is just trying to win an editing dispute https://xtools.wmcloud.org/pageinfo/en.wikipedia.org/History_of_Africa.

Edit: Kowal2701 just [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NutmegCoffeeTea&diff=prev&oldid=1276883220 edited his comment] to remove his link to my talk page comment ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:History_of_Africa&diff=prev&oldid=1276358317 comment link]) because it shows we're not the same person. BlackVulcanX (talk) 08:42, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

{{hat|Tangent. MarioGom (talk) 13:38, 8 March 2025 (UTC)}}

:Btw I don't know if it matters but Kowal2701 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1275530976 is a far-right editor]. Not saying that because it's bad but because he's interested in a colonial view on the article[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_Africa#Colonial_historiography] and if an editor tries to edit too he will find a way to scare them off like this. Happy to get along with them either way through talk pages. BlackVulcanX (talk) 23:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::I suggest you read WP:NPA. That is really clutching at straws Kowal2701 (talk) 00:19, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

@BlackVulcanX how did you know this case was open? Also there’s no public proposal for your edits Kowal2701 (talk) 09:50, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:Yea there is.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_Africa#c-BlackVulcanX-20250218110500-Periodisation] BlackVulcanX (talk) 23:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::That’s your vaguely-worded comment. That doesn’t explain why your edits are the exact same as NCT's and various IPs'. Kowal2701 (talk) 00:40, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::They're not. The links have different changes such as "Archaic humans" and the section headers are a public proposal on the talk page. You still haven't explained why you're misusing this forum to target editors who don't agree with your colonial view. BlackVulcanX (talk) 06:25, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::You seem to want me to have a colonial perspective. If you looked at my contributions and what I've written you'd see that that's not at all true. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&oldid=1210439409 This] is what History of Africa looked like before I came to it, which reinforced the colonial myth that Africa had no history. Although I don't expect you know much about what constitutes a colonial view.

::::The proposal on the talk page is for article titles, not section headers, and that still doesn't explain why your edits are the exact same. Kowal2701 (talk) 11:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::No, the proposal on the talk page is for the periodisation in the article. No, the edits are not the same they have different changes such as "Archaic humans" and the periodisation portion is a public proposal on the talk page. You still haven't explained why you're misusing this forum to target editors who don't agree with your colonial view. BlackVulcanX (talk) 22:03, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::Think I'm going to stop feeding the troll. Kowal2701 (talk) 22:17, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

{{hab}}

:Could they be using a proxy? Kowal2701 (talk) 16:23, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::Is there enough for a checkuser? The edits are practically identical. I can't be expected to believe this is a coincidence. Could be meat puppetry also from a group of friends on an external site Kowal2701 (talk) 16:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:::None of this is true. No, the edits are not the same they have different changes such as "Archaic humans" and the periodisation portion is a public proposal on the talk page. There's no coincidence and you are transparently misusing this forum. BlackVulcanX (talk) 11:50, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

::::And the personal attacks and aspersions are okay then? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:13, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::The case is closed. Please, refrain from further discussion unrelated to sockpuppetry evidence. This goes for all parties. MarioGom (talk) 17:41, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

{{admin note}} The IPs geolocate to Argentina, France, Potsdam (vodafone) and Gera, Germany (vesatel), respectively. Therefore, it seems improbable that they could be connected because they are all different IP providers and cities. Even for the two German IPs, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Africa&diff=1276110469&oldid=1276106673 here] there is only 30 minutes between edits. Potsdam to Gera is over 200km, which is not possible in 30 minutes. In comparing the two accounts, there is only one area of topic overlap with no overlap in other topics. I do not find the report convincing. DrKay (talk) 16:00, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:Proxy report was negative. So, it would have to very sophisticated sockpuppetry, if it was. Seems unlikely for a change and topic like this one. DrKay (talk) 16:26, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::Closing. DrKay (talk) 12:30, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

----

{{sock list|1=BMWF|2=RelmC|3=REAL_MOUSE_IRL|4=12.75.41.51|5=61.254.91.116|6=37.5.245.146|7=62.20.168.51|8=74.15.89.51|tools_link=yes}}

I seems like a quite obvious {{duck}} at the article Forspoken

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1281569338
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1282045904

both users have also edited the article Assassin's Creed Shadows in a similar manner, and have a tendency to manually revert users

BMWF seems to already be aware about WP:AE even though they only registered last October and have barely made any edits to the article space.

Another user has also suggested that they might a sockpuppet

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1281946183

Since these are somewhat contentious topics it would be great if a checkuser could take a look FMSky (talk) 00:44, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Update: This goes a lot deeper than initially thought, see below. --FMSky (talk) 07:05, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:Think {{sock list|1=RelmC|tools_link=yes}} is the sock master. They both edit Yasuke, Assassins Creed shadows, and love coffee. Her other socks also have a habit of using templates on regulars they’re in a dispute with, as RelmC did [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FMSky&diff=prev&oldid=1281705845 here], and BMWF did [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FMSky&diff=prev&oldid=1281806058 here]. Also, BMWF and NCT both blank negative comments on their talk pages Kowal2701 (talk) 07:56, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::OK that is quite interesting. I hadn't considered that account, but based on the whole coffee and assassin's creed thing (which is quite a weird coincidence) it looks likely indeed FMSky (talk) 09:46, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::I'm also now quite sure that user [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/REAL_MOUSE_IRL REAL_MOUSE_IRL] is another account of Relm. They became aware of the AE and the SPI case completely randomly and out of nowhere [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1282098398 1], are also interested in Japan topics [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BEE_Japan&diff=prev&oldid=1280349803 2], and "R.E.L.M" might very well be an abbrevation for REAL_MOUSE --FMSky (talk) 10:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Same thing happened in the previous case where BlackVulcanX found their way here randomly and also accused me of being far right . Kowal2701 (talk) 10:28, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:::I found it from the arbcom enforcement where Real_Mouse linked to it. Relm (talk) 12:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Update: Didnt even realise at first, "RelmC" = "Real Mouse" when spoken --FMSky (talk) 12:34, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:RelmC only really started editing Yasuke around September 2024, the same time as Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 14#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke closed in which various editors were topic banned, but I don't see any obvious matches Kowal2701 (talk) 17:08, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:It’d make sense if you were a sock master to have different accounts for your on each of your interests and have them overlap in a contentious topic. Real mouse had very good knowledge of Wikipedia’s inner workings from the get go, and I’m confident they’re not a new account, however not seeing behavioural things like similar edit summaries which would confirm this whole case. Be interested to hear what admins think Kowal2701 (talk) 22:41, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Very very likely also editing logged out as an IP ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NutmegCoffeeTea&diff=prev&oldid=1282220610 link]) --FMSky (talk) 02:53, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

There are also the suspicious IP editors from all over the world again [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1281371452 1], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1279246940 2], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1279183699 3], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1278668497 4], that were mentioned in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NutmegCoffeeTea/Archive archived SPI case]. Its especially weird since these user have only ever made one edit on this one page and nothign else, same as in the archived case. This looks to me like a coordinated group of people using Discord or a chat group or something taking turns making reverts / WP:MEATPUPPETRY --FMSky (talk) 04:45, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:Look at the previous case. History of Africa gets next to no traffic yet there were ~8 people all making the same edit but not using a proxy. Utterly bizzare. nCT’s [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1282218300 comment] calling me a white supremacist confirms my suspicions that I’ve been targeted personally in some fucked up crusade. Kowal2701 (talk) 05:43, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::It is definitely coordinated. Its virtually impossible these edits happened organically - FMSky (talk) 05:44, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::Note how NCT’s egregious and baseless PA against me [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1282218300] using [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_Africa/Archive_1#Eurocentric_periodization] as ‘evidence’ is very similar to BlackVulcanX’s {{tq| Btw I don't know if it matters but Kowal2701 is a far-right editor. Not saying that because it's bad but because he's interested in a colonial view on the article[16] }} using [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1275530976&title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents] and [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_Africa#Colonial_historiography] as evidence. Kowal2701 (talk) 07:01, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Would it make sense to add BlackVulcanX to the list as well? FMSky (talk) 07:05, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Only if you want, I think there’s decent evidence Kowal2701 (talk) 07:10, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Just wishing to note that loving coffee is being the reason I am listed as a hat. That aside, This is clearly retaliatory given FMsky's arbcome enforcement [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#FMSky] which FMsky links to but only for Springee's accusation and not to give the context. I also wish to state this is the first time I am aware of my name being mentioned at SPI as a sock or hat, so do not know who my supposed 'other' socks are. Relm (talk) 09:34, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:Nothing "retaliatory", this literally might be the explanation for this whole, weird thing that's is going on right now. And I didn't even consider making this case until NutmegCoffee started editing the article Forspoken all of a sudden [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Forspoken&diff=prev&oldid=1282045904 1], which she had never once visited before FMSky (talk) 09:44, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::FMSky, you opened a crap SPI report that links to the AE case it was in retaliation of, and you aren't going to beat that allegation if you keep adding people to the report on absurd grounds. REAL_MOUSE_IRL talk 10:34, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:::How'd you become aware of either the SPI case or the AE case? - FMSky (talk) 10:36, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:::And before either of you pull out the NPA card, this report is crap and that is not a personal attack. 2 people reverting the same edit is not grounds for a checkuser. REAL_MOUSE_IRL talk 10:36, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::::This was the first edit you ever made to wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fancy_mouse&diff=prev&oldid=1272185739 1], how did you already know how to add expertly formatted citations with archive links when you're a new user? Why do you care about a checkuser if you're not a sockpuppet? How did you become aware of either the AE or SPI case? FMSky (talk) 10:56, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{Blockquote|I don't think it's absurd to look at someone's edit history, see they have pronouns in their bios, and assume they have liberal POVs, while far from ideal behaviour, that shouldn't warrant a TBAN from an area unrelated to the articles this is about. - Kowal271[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Kowal2701-20250324100900-Statement_by_Kowal2701]}}

:I believe this says enough about what's going on here. Relm (talk) 12:24, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::I refuted this nonsensical spin at the Arbcom thing. Kowal2701 (talk) 12:46, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Clear retaliation for my [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#FMSky AE report]. 10 minutes after filing this he went to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robby.is.on#Hi canvass other editors] to "put in good word" for him at AE which I think amounts to an abusive gaming of Wikipedia. BMWF (talk) 16:39, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:This isn’t an ANI thread, anything that isn’t related to sockpuppetry evidence will be ignored Kowal2701 (talk) 16:53, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

::Admins will not ignore retaliatory filings and your attempts to target editing opponents. You are an involved editor who has a history with NCT, and are apparently biased against people who use pronouns you dislike which is inappropriate. BMWF (talk) 23:53, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

:::The concerns others have raised about similar behaviour between accounts still haven't been addressed, and laughing at the coffee thing isn't helping or a good answer. Harryhenry1 (talk) 03:28, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Nope. I didn't laugh about a coffee thing, and it has been addressed above by a few editors.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:REAL_MOUSE_IRL][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:REAL_MOUSE_IRL] Nonsensical and clearly retaliatory. FMSky has already been reprimanded by two admins at AE for his unsubstantiated socking allegations. BMWF (talk) 05:57, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::You are now the third of the users here to use the word "retaliatory" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=next&oldid=1282098398 1], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1282113367 2]. Its interesting that you all have the same point of view and style of writing - FMSky (talk) 06:04, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::If multiple people are calling your behavior retaliatory, you might want to look at why.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Smallangryplanet-20250316163200-Request_concerning_Johnadams11][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20250316150400-Tamzin-20250315221900][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ealdgyth-20250317145600-Result_concerning_Smallangryplanet] BMWF (talk) 07:06, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Youre linking what seems to be random threads. What is this even about? - FMSky (talk) 07:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::Whatever concerns they have about FMSky's behaviour is just about that, his behaviour. Not the actual allegations of sockpuppetry that are being discussed here. Harryhenry1 (talk) 07:18, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::That's because there's not anything substantive to the behaviour. I have been editing Yasuke since September, Nutmeg started after me. If you look in the archives of that page you will see us disagree on quite a lot. If you look at the RFC on the image I started there and the associated discussion which proceeded it, you'll see we have/had entirely different perspectives. My vote [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yasuke#c-RelmC-20250207095200-Polling], their vote [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yasuke#c-NutmegCoffeeTea-20250209012100-KeiTakahashi999-20250207123500], link to the proceeding discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yasuke/Archive_10#Yasuke_Image]. The main evidence given have been:

::::1. Nutmeg and I edit the same CTOP - the same one I first encountered FMsky on

::::2. We both disagreed with FMsky on the talk page for a page under that CTOP (in reality all I did was ask him for a source for a claim they made)

::::and for the rest:

::::3. We used the word 'retaliatory' to describe a retaliatory SPI investigation

::::4. We showed up here at all (As stated I only saw this because it was mentioned at the AE), which is why FMsky keeps adding anyone who posts here to the list.

::::5. RelmC when pronounced can allegedly be the same as saying 'Real Mouse' which is patently ridiculous.

::::These are not strong claims, they are trying to squeeze water out of stone. Relm (talk) 07:22, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::Oh right,

:::::6. That we both have she/her pronouns and the coffee userbox.

:::::If you believe there is anything more to this, please feel free to ask. @Harryhenry1 Relm (talk) 07:23, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::Actually I went and checked. I uncritically assumed Kowal reported correctly [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NutmegCoffeeTea#c-Kowal2701-20250324170800-FMSky-20250324123400] that I started editing Yasuke in September. I just checked and my first post was in early july, and continued from then on. They likewise got the date of the arbcom case wrong, as it was not in September but mid November (look at the case page and you'll see that.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke#Contentious_topic_(Yasuke)]) However the CTOP page mistakenly says 'Last modified 13 September 2024'[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics/Yasuke] which likely explains how this error was made by Kowal. Relm (talk) 07:29, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::The case was opened in September and closed in November (and I assume the case was requested much earlier), but you're right I got the date you started editing Yasuke wrong, thought it was August. Regardless, that isn't part of the evidence Kowal2701 (talk) 07:36, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::Your original name was "Relmcheatham", given your history with edits about biology would this be a reference to [https://communication.northwestern.edu/faculty/mary-ann-cheatham.html Mary Ann Cheatham]? She has, in fact, used mice to study genetic hearing loss. Harryhenry1 (talk) 07:37, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::1. No, and why would that be relevant to SPI?

::::::2. One of the main projects I've done since starting has been clearing through this category https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_citing_retracted_publications which was around ~500 pages when I started; I am a historian, so I started with the articles that weren't BIOMED, but the majority of pages in the category have been BIOMED. Relm (talk) 07:55, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

• Please, refrain from further discussion that is not strictly related to SPI evidence. MarioGom (talk) 21:54, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
• Last warning, {{u|FMSky}}, {{u|Kowal2701}}, {{u|RelmC}}, {{u|REAL_MOUSE_IRL}}: Please, stop further discussion that is not strictly about SPI evidence. Whether this is a retaliatory filing or not might be considered (or not) at WP:AE where you also brought this issue. Also whether a checkuser is justified or not will be decided by a checuser. Don't worry because it is not something that is ever performed just because the filter requests it. MarioGom (talk) 17:58, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
• FMSky and Kowal2701 have done a much better job making the case that this is several people with the same POV (the hypothesis one needs to argue against in a POV-related SPI) than that this is a single person. Neither vague username similarity nor a shared affinity for coffee will cut it in that regard. It is extremely common, in topic areas like this, for many distinct editors to make similar edits to the same small number of pages and have, in broad strokes, similar editing styles; this is something any SPI clerk learns very early on, and it's why we tend to look for narrow similarities like word choice, edit summary style, preferred talkpage arguments, etc. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of sockpuppetry here, but it would need to be based on a clear showing of behavioral similarities other than shared POV or common shared interest. {{decline}}. {{close without action}}. {{re|Kowal2701}} you're 0-for-2 here now, so this is a formal warning as a clerk that if you file or contribute to another SPI against NCT without that kind of clear evidence, you will be at a minimum p-blocked from this page. {{re|FMSky}} You can add this on to the other warnings I've already given at AE for how you are handling this situation; I'm not going to threaten a clerk-hat p-block or anything because the likely next step for continued escalation is an indef siteblock. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 21:14, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

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