Wikipedia:Teahouse#Lengthy ANI discussion archived without a resolution

Hello,

I am trying to understand what about the content on this page (Jayanthi Kumaresh) appears promotional. It earlier was indeed so (unintentionally) and has hence been edited to present a more neurtral tone and amply supported by citations. The tagger has indicated that there is still lots of puffery. Will anyone kindly help me review and edit the article to adhere to the wiki standards. Thank you.

Shyamala. Shyamalswiki (talk) 03:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:Phrases such as {{tq|represent India’s Musical Heritage and promote Indian classical music; rigorous Veena training; renowned violinist; excelled in sparkling glee; gave a sold-out concert at Sydney Opera House}} all come across as promotional. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:59, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::“excelled in sparkling glee" is a quote from a review. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:31, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, but a cherry-picked quote. Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:44, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::::There are about 150 or so links where I do a google search and I am trying to figure out how to make an article about the subject using content from those sources. So, should I just be quoting lines from each of the articles - I thought, we could make factual statements and then give citations supporting it. Can you kindly pick one line out of the article and show me a rewritten version as a sample so I can understand what is wrong ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 16:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I have removed some of the content you pointed out as appearing promotional. Kindly review. If it appears ok, what would be the next step to get the promotional tag removed ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::Also can you explain what in the name of the wikipedia is this? {{Tq|1=Darbar.org says she was one of the youngest veena artist to receive A-Top grading from All India Rad}}. Wh67890 (talk) 07:23, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::It is basically quoting a line from the website darbar.org .. Is there a better way of saying this ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 13:44, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Ask yourself if this is how we write informations in Wikipedia or is this way any Encyclopedia is written, the way you replied it without acknowledging the error, I think you need a course on how to write articles. Wh67890 (talk) 16:19, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Kindly do not be offended. I am here in the teahouse to learn and seek the advice of experts like you. I am asking, I am unable to understand what the error is, what is a better way of saying this ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 17:21, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Since you are commited to do it, why dont you try WP:RS, WP:Notability, WP:Article and WP:Verifiability. These are like constitution here in Wikipedia, reading them will help you getting familiarised with the idea of editing Wikipedia. Wh67890 (talk) 23:47, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::I went through notability already and made a few edits based on that. I will go through the other links you have provided. Thank you for your time and effort. Shyamalswiki (talk) 00:50, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Just for asking: Are you connected to the subject somehow? Wh67890 (talk) 23:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I am a fan of her music and while looking for something found that her page was really old. So, I am trying to put my best foot forward and get it up to date. Shyamalswiki (talk) 00:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::Veena Artist I think not notable Santalipedia (talk) 11:30, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Also {{Tq|1=She is one of the youngest veena player with A-Top grading[cite the source for your claim]}} is only best version I can advise to you. Also Read some other article that share similarities with you but are in A-class or B-class phase, it will also help you to understand how to write a better encyclopedia.Wh67890 (talk) 23:51, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::I have made a similar edit and a citation was already there. Thank you for the pointer and suggestion. If you find any other sections with scope for improvement, kindly let me know. Shyamalswiki (talk) 00:57, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::What is A-class / B-class, how can I find such articles ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 01:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::this might be confusing: A class and B class articles that are neatly written, but not the best standard articles like featured or GAs. These articles follow almost all the rules and criteria that in Wikipedia needs; such as but not limited to, citing, reliability, notability, expansion et cetra. You cannot find them but it is shown, what class that article is of, in the top of the artile just below the title but only if you have enabled this in you gadgets menu.

::::::::::::these are some of the articles related to musics and BLP in your country (india) with A and B class criteria:

::::::::::::1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravi_Shankar Ravi Shankar actually a good article.

::::::::::::2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga Raga Wh67890 (talk) 01:59, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Thank you very much. I saw some of your pointers in the article and I have gone back and added more citations that I could find. I have more content to add but would like to wait until the current content is in the clear and we can remove the promo tag. In the mean time, I saw some of the citations got added with an auto tag and now some are being repeated. How can I fix this and prevent it from re occurring ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 02:19, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Do not wait to make an article better. Promo tag will automatically be removed by one of us if you refine your article.

::::::::::::::I will not be here since i am busy. So here are some advice. Expand it, improve lede section so that reader understand the spot just liWikof success. ipedia is not just awards collection. Read WP:What Wikipedia is not.You don't need to verify everything but you need to verify sentences that makes claims. Wh67890 (talk) 02:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::*Understand the subject not just list of awards. Sorry my keyboard got jammed.

:::::::::::::::Wh67890 (talk) 02:53, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::Thank you very much again for the invaluable advice. what did u mean "lede section" ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 02:57, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::Lede section is the first section you see in article, such as in your case, it is the whole section just above early life and education. Wh67890 (talk) 03:09, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::Lede section summa rise most important things that you see in the article . And sometime, with care, you can add extra information but make sure lede section is just summarise it. Wh67890 (talk) 03:11, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::Read WP:Lede section Wh67890 (talk) 03:15, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Can you kindly elaborate what you mean by "not notable" Shyamalswiki (talk) 13:44, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Some of the sections are marked as citation needed - “A Thousand Stars”.^{[citation needed]} Jayanthi Kumaresh has also released several albums with multiple themes and presentations. - Is it ok to include the you tube link as citation ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 16:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::No youtube links are not used in Wikipedia, don't use them. Wh67890 (talk) 16:52, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::The other links that show up are also similar - apple music, shazam, spotify etc. What is a way to add a citation here then ? Shyamalswiki (talk) 16:57, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::uhm. Since we don't allow these sites because they are not "WP: Primary source. Only options are:

::::1. Published articles from music magazines (e.g. Rolling Stone), reputable websites (Billboard), or industry databases (Discogs).

::::2. Record label or artist official press releases, album booklets, or liner notes.

::::3. Interviews, reliable news coverage, or historical archives.

::::Make sure they are not biased and promotional everything else is good. Wh67890 (talk) 17:03, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Wh67890 is not quite correct here – a YouTube video can be perfectly fine as a source, for instance a news report published by a reliable news organisation, a lecture by an acknowledged expert published by a major university, or a documentary produced and published by a reputable publisher. It is all about who has published the video – and to be clear, the absolute majority of everything published through YouTube is not going to be useable as a source, but it's not true that YT is never used. Now, if you were thinking about using YouTube videos of Jayanthi Kumaresh's performances to support statements in the article, that is not ideal since such a video is a primary source, and Wikipedia really prefers secondary sources in most situations. Note also that a link to a YT video can never be used to support a claim about how many views or follows or likes the video has. As for Apple Music, Spotify, Shazam, and similar, those are primary sources, and not useful for Wikipedia's purposes since they only show that a song or an album exists; in addition, links to streaming services or websites that sell products should always be avoided because Wikipedia doesn't want to send its readers off to commercial websites. Hope this makes sense. --bonadea contributions talk 18:35, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::thanks for noting the mistake. Actually yes you can use Youtube in certain cases but its very rare and only if no other sources (secondary sources) are available. For example Shyamalswiki can use this link https://www.youtube.com/@JayanthiKumareshVeena to cite directly one about her (subject's) channel OR her (subject's) piece of music, only for proving the existence through official sources, such as in this case the link leaves to her official Youtube account. Link however can be used like this “X, [https://youtube.com/xyz Interview with Artist Y,” YouTube, timestamp 3:45], Official Channel, Published Jan 2023." is appropriate. Also you can not use any unofficial Youtube channel even if it includes her (e.g. fan, promotional et cetra). But this is done carefully, thanks again. Wh67890 (talk) 01:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::Thank you for offering more clarity Bonadea and Wh67890. I will then proceed to use her channel link when mentioning her albums. I have also expanded on the lead section and hopefully am getting better at writing it. Any feedback for improvement is highly appreciated. Shyamalswiki (talk) 02:22, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::Just a remainder, please if you can find, use some secondary sources too , just for sake of reliability. It will take more pain but it will worth it. Wh67890 (talk) 03:32, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

{{atop|1= OP's query has been correctly answered. The answer is not going to change and this is not the place for OP to lobby for changes to Wikipedia's core policies. That would be WP:VPP, where I am sure their views will be welcomed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)}}

How do I cite book sales when the only reference I have is not public but is a sales statement emailed to me from the publisher? StephenMM3 (talk) 19:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, you can't. We need an independent, published source. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:11, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::Publishers tend not to publish that info. I have one that just hit a million copies sold. That comes with a Platinum Award for that mile marker. 2 questions: Do the W editors have access to pub numbers to confirm that number? If not, would the url of the Agent's list of author awards provide enough evidence? He lists the awards and sales numbers together. Thanks. StephenMM3 (talk) 01:53, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately, you can't. We need an independent, published source. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:48, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Hi Shantavira. It's hard to grasp the logic behind requiring a published source instead of the source behind the published source. Beyond that, a document printed or otherwise directly from the publisher is a published document and a copyrighted resource belonging to the representative of the publisher or to the publishing company. I think that policy needs an update to accommodate this digital era. But thanks for the kind and direct responses. ``` StephenMM3 (talk) 20:27, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::{{u|StephenMM3}}: The logic behind requiring a published source is so that other Wikipedia editors and readers can check it. It's all very well you saying that the publisher told you that a book sold X number of copies, but we need other people to be able to verify that too. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 11:59, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::I don't think I'm getting my point across. I'm not asking anyone to trust me. I'm asking about trusting information that comes from the publisher. If they are willing to release it to me, I believe they would be willing to release it to W. with the permission of the author. I'm trying to find a way to get that information to you because it is seldom printed in any way that would be acceptable to W because it would be deemed as from an unreliable source, such as the Mktg Dept. You want the numbers. I want you to have the numbers. The numbers are there. How can I get them to you? That's the challenge. It shouldn't be this hard. One other point, some editors such as yourself speak respectfully. Some speak with tones of anger and impatience. This is hard and unwelcoming space for new people. It's a land of unfamiliar language and rules and of swift punishment. I have appreciated the kindness of some along the way. StephenMM3 (talk) 15:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

{{abot}}

Hi, my submission got declined again for not enough reliable sources. I put every source I could find on Roselilah in the citations, but it still got declined. Can somebody please help me? AmberHeij (talk) 06:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:AmberHeij, a sample from Draft:Roselilah: {{Olive|Roselilah is known for her dark, melodic trap beats and her ability to work remotely with artists across the globe from her studio in the Netherlands. She has expressed a strong commitment to continual growth, often emphasizing the importance of matching sound to artist identity.}} With, at the end, a link to a web page of the Netherlands (and of course Dutch-language) edition of Cosmopolitan. Saying that person X "is known for" Y is common here (I must confess that on occasion I've perpetrated it myself); does the Cosmo article not provide specifics? Meanwhile, "a strong commitment to continual growth" means nothing to me. There's other vapid phrasing, too. As a second example, "major placement in the U.S. hip hop scene": if this means something (and actually I suspect that it does), then please express this something in a way designed not to impress but to inform. (NB there are more examples besides.) And please, no "bare URLs". -- Hoary (talk) 08:53, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you very much for the feedback, Hoary. I've gone through the article again and replaced all bare URLs with properly formatted citations. I've also done my best to make the language more neutral and factual throughout the draft, avoiding promotional phrasing. I truly appreciate your help and would be very grateful if you could point out any remaining issues I might have missed. Thank you again for taking the time to review the draft! Best regards,Amber AmberHeij (talk) 11:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Hello, @AmberHeij. The "Career" section begins: "Roselilah's international production career began in 2018, when she produced ...". Translating that out of marketing-speak, it reads "In 2018, Roselilah produced ...". The words I have removed are editorializing.

:::Remember that {{HD/WINI}} ColinFine (talk) 13:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you very much, Colin. I’ve incorporated all your suggestions and gone through the text once more to remove or rephrase any promotional wording. I also made some small adjustments here and there to keep the tone as neutral as possible. I've included every reliable source I could find about Roselilah in the article. I really hope it will be accepted this time, otherwise I might have to give up on it. Thank you again for your time and help! AmberHeij (talk) 08:04, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Why isn't a Wikipedia page about the nations which aligned with Maoist China during tte Cold War, adding a third side to the Cold War, alongside to the USA and the USSR? BuddyHeigh (talk) 15:44, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:Don't know if it helps, but Sino-Soviet split and Cold War in Asia exists. If you want to start a new article, make sure to start with finding good academic sources about the "China-bloc". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks @Gråbergs Gråa Sång for your suggestions and help, I will try my best to find good academic sources to create such a article. Or I can add another section to the Third World article. If I can't find suitable sources I'll not create any article/section. Thanks again. BuddyHeigh (talk) 19:17, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi everyone! I recently submitted a draft article for review through AfC about Luca Volpe, a well-known Italian mentalist and performer. I have a professional connection, so I disclosed the COI transparently on the sandbox’s Talk page.

The page is at: User:Mnemonicbloom/sandbox

I believe he meets notability guidelines through national TV appearances (RAI1, RAI2), international performances, multiple industry awards (Merlin Award, Robert Houdin d’Or), and magazine features (e.g., Vanish Magazine).

Could someone take a quick peek and let me know if everything looks correct or if I need to move anything into Draft namespace? I’m still learning and happy to improve based on feedback!

Thank you so much for all the guidance! ~~~~ Mnemonicbloom (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @Mnemonicbloom. I see your draft has been declined.

:A Wikipedia article should be a neutral summary of what several people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable publications, and very little else. Several of your sources are not reliable (eg Facebook), and others are not independent (eg suppliers). ColinFine (talk) 17:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::

Thank you, ColinFine. I understand. I’ve now stepped away from editing this topic and respect the standards and policies in place. Wishing the editorial team all the best.

::Mnemonicbloom (talk) 19:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::If you can find reliable independent sources, feel free to add them to the draft and eventually try to submit again :) CVDX (talk) 20:53, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Democratic Republic of the Congo–Rwanda conflict (2022–present)

Hello, what's latest news from this war (conflict)? Update, please like Russo-Ukrainian war? СтасС (talk) 17:29, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @CTacc, and welcome to the Teahouse.

:Wikipedia is not a news organ, and there is no compulsion to be up to the minute. Asking random editors to update a particular article is probably not going to be very fruitful.

:You might get a better response if you ask at one of the WikiProjects listed on that article's Talk page. ColinFine (talk) 17:44, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you for answer--СтасС (talk) 17:49, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:::You may also ask at WP:REFD/H. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

i found a article going by the name "if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around does it make any sound" and i found the name to be too long and complicated and that it would likely reduce the performance of the article and wouldnt help if people are searching the topic under a different name or a likely suitable title.

Are titles like these ok and are encyclopedic or a title change is in order for this article Narventer (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Narventer Per Talk:If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest_and_no_one_is_around_to_hear_it,_does_it_make_a_sound%3F#Requested_move_7_April_2024 it seems to be the current consensus. Consensus can change. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::There are several redirects from shorter titles.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=If+a+tree+falls+in+a+forest+and+no+one+is+around+to+hear+it%2C+does+it+make+a+sound%3F&namespace=&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1&limit=50] It's a famous thought experiment I may have heard dozens of times and it doesn't have a short name so the title seems appropriate to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:What does "reduce the performance of the article" mean? Longer loading time for the article? I really doubt that is a problem. --bonadea contributions talk 19:28, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I've often seen boilerplate notices or banners added to a user's talk page to appraise them of wikipedia policies or editing guidelines they may need to review; indeed, I have such a notice on my talk page right now. I watch recent changes a fair bit and have sometimes felt the need to share this kind of guidance, but don't know where to find and how to apply these template banners. Is there a central location for this kind of content? Elliptical Reasoning (talk) 21:42, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Elliptical Reasoning If you install WP:Twinkle you can select from and automatically apply a variety of boilerplate notices. Twinkle has a lot of other useful tools. You can see a list of templates at Wikipedia:Template index/User talk namespace. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 22:12, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for! Elliptical Reasoning (talk) 22:40, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

: {{u| Elliptical Reasoning}}, if you are talking specifically about the welcome messages that you find on many new user talk pages, you can find them at Wikipedia:Welcome templates. They do not require Twinkle and you may use them directly, same as any other template. Some people prefer to use Twinkle, others do not; your choice. Mathglot (talk) 12:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Recently uploaded :File:Shanghai Municipal seal.png, though there is a really obvious typo. May I ask if it is possible to rename it, since I can't find the move button Thehistorianisaac (talk) 00:28, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Thehistorianisaac files can only be moved by file movers or admins. You can request a rename using {{tl|rename media}}. [[User:CanonNi]] (talk • contribs) 01:56, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you! Thehistorianisaac (talk) 02:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a notable TikTok creator with verified social accounts and media coverage in six major Nigerian newspapers (Punch, Guardian, Vanguard, etc.). I also have an IMDb page and a Google Knowledge Panel.

I’d like help creating or improving a Wikipedia article about me (Realjjfrosh) that follows Wikipedia’s notability and neutrality guidelines. Can anyone assist ?

Thank you! Realjjfrosh (talk) 00:29, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello {{user link|Realjjfrosh}}. Article subjects require significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic. Therefore social media accounts, IMDb pages, and the Google Knowledge Panel don't contribute to notability for Wikipedia. The newspapers could work but we would have to see (things like pure interviews or promotional pieces don't usually help much). If you provide these sources an editor could check them out. You did well in asking here instead of creating the article yourself (in my experience such articles are typically deleted due to lack of notability). Finally, don't feel dispirited if you don't end up getting an article right now; maybe after some years that could change. Cheers, Sophocrat (talk) 02:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you very much for the honest feedback, Sophocrat. I completely understand the need for reliable, independent coverage to meet Wikipedia’s notability standards.

::In response, I’ve gathered six major media sources from respected Nigerian newspapers — including The Guardian, Punch, Vanguard, ThisDayLive, The Nation, and Daily Trust. These are not just interviews or promotional pieces — most of them are independent reports discussing my digital influence, work as a TikTok creator, and my contributions to content creation in Africa.

::Here are the links:

::* https://punchng.com/tiktok-star-realjjfrosh-plans-social-platform-for-creators/?amp

::* https://guardian.ng/features/realjjfrosh-viral-tiktok-creator-pioneering-africas-social-media-growth/

::* https://www.vanguardngr.com/2025/03/realjjfrosh-the-rising-force-behind-viral-tiktok-trends-in-africa/amp/

::* https://thenationonlineng.net/how-realjjfrosh-nigerian-internet-sensation-redefines-content-creation-across-africa/amp/

::* https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2025/04/01/realjjfrosh-the-digital-strategist-redefining-social-media-influence-in-africa/

::* https://dailytrust.com/realjjfrosh-a-rising-tiktok-creator-known-for-engaging-social-media-trends-2/

::I’d truly appreciate it if you or any experienced editor could take a second look and advise if this level of coverage supports notability. I’m happy to wait or work on improving anything further.

::Thanks again 🙏

::—Realjjfrosh Realjjfrosh (talk) 03:25, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::I am sorry Realjjfrosh, but there is problem in your context. I have already included a guideline that says WP:What Wikipedia is not, please read it carefully. Creating your own BLP is stongly discouraged and may not pass AfC review as usual. Think it like this- adding a bunch of news article does not means that article is able to be written in mainspace (Wikipedia article space) because we follow varieties of guidelines when we decide to write an article, such as BUT NOT LIMITED TO, WP:Notability (are you notable enough in public, outside TikTok, to pass your own article criteria), WP:RS (every source is reliable and not a biased promotion), WP:Primary sources and WP:COI etc. Primary sources carry very less weight if you will not pass other guidelines. More importantly, what does these sources tells about you matters more than just mentioning you. Even well-known newspapers can publish soft journalism (interviews, paid features, or PR fluff). Many African newspapers — like Vanguard, ThisDayLive, and even Punch — have a high number of advertorials, which do not count under WP:RS (Reliable Sources) or WP:SIGCOV (Significant Coverage). Also being popular on social media platforms like TikTok, even with millions of followers, does not mean notability per Wikipedia standards unless their influence has been the subject of analysis in third-party media, academia, or other non-trivial contexts. Again, please understand that Wikipedia is not a promotional blog site, i can understand that you just want to publish your BLP but we must adhere with Wikipedia guidelines. I would advise you to wait few years until you gain more coverage, thank you for making Wikipedia better place. Wh67890 (talk) 06:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Sorry for not including WP:NPOV. Wh67890 (talk) 06:18, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::@Realjjfrosh There are already a number of articles in Wikipedia covering TikTokers. They are listed at :Category:TikTokers. We currently have 10 :Category:Nigerian TikTokers and if you look at some of these articles you will get an idea of the sort of sources which work to show Wikinotability. Writing a draft using the articles for creation process is the accepted way for people like you who have a conflict of interest to proceed. Please also read Help:Your first article and our policy on biographies of living people. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:19, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:I do not understand why there is so much misunderstanding that Wikipedia is a blogging platform. WP:What Wikipedia is not. Wh67890 (talk) 02:55, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::OP is not asking about blogging. Their query is reasonable and this is a good place to ask it. This is the tea house where inexperienced users including potential article subjects are expected to be treated with kindness and understanding. The tone of your reply is inappropriate anywhere on Wikipedia, but especially on this page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:48, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::No I merely gave all the information one need without spoonfeeding, it depends on how you take it, have a good day. Wh67890 (talk) 09:14, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Also I don't expect anything else from a TikToker other than blogging, since Wikipedia hardly need them here when they are already quite well known on other websites. Regarding my tone, I don't spoonfeed, if you are child or get offended by reality on my telling in how Wikipedia works you need to work on Youtube Kids. Wh67890 (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::You are required to Assume good faith.

::::And cut the snark. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:19, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{ping|Wh67890}} I agree with Mabbett, OP did well. Most people in their position I encounter instead directly create promotional articles which end up being deleted, which is a sink of time for everyone involved. I think we should be kind to newcomers, especially cooperative ones. Thanks for your consideration. Sophocrat (talk) 16:33, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes I can understand, direct AC without prior experience is classic thing. Please forgive me if I was seen disrespectful but my main motivation was to provide him with relevant information. Also it would be better if Mabett kindly look it just beyond snark and sending me blocking threats. Good night. Wh67890 (talk) 16:48, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::I haven't sent you any "bocking threats". I simply observed that "You will either moderate [your tone], or end up with blocks." I stand by that assessment.

::::Two "b"s. HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:54, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::Thank you all for your feedback and guidance — I appreciate the honesty and the opportunity to learn more about how Wikipedia works.

:::::I understand now that the focus is not just on having press coverage, but on whether the sources provide significant, independent, and in-depth coverage of my work. I’ll review all six articles again to make sure they meet WP:SIGCOV and WP:RS.

:::::I also want to thank @Andy Mabbett and @Sophocrat for reminding us about the importance of treating new users with kindness. I came here because I want to do things the right way, not to promote myself, but to contribute something valuable and verifiable if it meets the guidelines.

:::::I’ll hold off on drafting anything further until I better understand how strong the sources really are. If anyone is willing to help evaluate them more closely, I’d be grateful.

:::::Thanks again to everyone for your time and for helping me navigate this the proper way. 🙏 Realjjfrosh (talk) 20:02, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I received articles from a paid service claiming they are usable for Wikipedia page creation. Can you please confirm whether these articles meet the reliable sources policy?

Article publish paltform links such as:

1. https://medium.com/...

2. https://vocal.media/...

3. https://livepositively.com/... 1.165.202.253 (talk) 01:45, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi IP editor, pieces published on these platforms are generally unreliable because they are WP:USERGENERATED: anyone can write anything on these platforms. In addition, paid-for articles are not independent sources, so they cannot be used to establish notability. Do not send money to these people or anyone else who contacts you; see WP:SCAM. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 02:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{Tq|1=claiming they are usable for Wikipedia page creation}}, this is strange. Furthermore Medium, vocal, livepositively and other PAID services are not reliable in Wikipedia standard, this is because Wikipedia is FOSS (free and open source) platform, and we generally allow informations that are not just reliable but also free for most of the community members. However, note that there is no absolute rule that paid articles are completely restricted, because in many cases we allow paid sources (such as JSTOR etc.), but we strongly discourage sources that are undisclosed and provide biased promotion such as in your case. Morever, Vocal platform is not available in other many countries (such as India etc.). This creates more bias and misinformation for those who does not have access to cross verification.

:What you can try are:

:1. News

:2. journals

:3. reputable websites

:4. goverment sources etc. Wh67890 (talk) 02:49, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

It says he’s alive on his page but on deaths of 2025 it says he’s dead why is that? Lordofcallofduty (talk) 02:12, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello {{user link|Lordofcallofduty}}. It seems the Axel Skalstad article has simply not been updated by anyone. You can do it yourself if you wish :). Cheers, Sophocrat (talk) 02:28, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

{{courtesy link|Woni Spotts}}

How do I report vandalism and attacks on a wikipedia page since 2019? It started when a traveler had a wikipedia page and a rival explorer added a controversy section, vandalized the page September 2019) and somehow it was scheduled for deletion. The subject of the vandalized page lost faith in the process. Later, someone restored her page and set the record straight with articles and a world record. Now, the same vandalism is being penetrated again (this time with personal attacks). Also, since the other woman has no world record, admitted to not going to Syria, and is not notable as "first." Why does she have a page? She just selling a book, which somehow is allowed. What can the be done?

Thank you 2600:8802:3A09:6400:86C:E076:FB1:CD8 (talk) 03:00, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:IP editor, it would help if you could identify the article in question. What you are describing does not sound like vandalism, and world records are not needed for an article to exist. [[User:CanonNi]] (talk • contribs) 03:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

: {{tq|The subject of the ... page lost faith in the process}}. It sounds as though WP:COI may be relevant. You may report the issue you describe at WP:BLPN, if following the process described at WP:DR is unsuccessful. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi everyone,

I’ve been given a task to help my grandfather, and would appreciate your guidance.

My grandfather, Juwana, served as Indonesia’s ambassador to:

• China (1994–1997) – listed here: :id:Daftar Duta Besar Indonesia untuk Tiongkok
• Vietnam – listed here: :id:Daftar Duta Besar Indonesia untuk Vietnam

His name appears on both lists, but there’s no dedicated article about him yet.

He recently asked how every ambassadro had their own Wiki... and it didn't help that his son also has a Wikipedia article (not sure who wrote it, but my dad's wiki is here: Hikmahanto’s page is here: https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikmahanto_Juwana. Definitely aint me :D

So here’s my question:

Would my grandfather qualify for a Wikipedia article, given his ambassadorial roles?

I found an article referring him, but most of the information is given by my grandfather. Are primary sources acceptable if there aren’t many third-party media references? Considering he was mostly active in 60s - 90s... in which there wasn't a lot of digitally available documents then.

Is it possible to set up a page for him?

Appreciate any advice so I can approach this respectfully and properly. Thank you in advance! Opj5000 (talk) 03:15, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:HI @Opj5000, welcome to wikipedia! Ambassadors aren't "inherently notable", which means that in order to have an article on them, we need to see that they pass the guidelines at WP:NBIO. Primary sources aren't acceptable, unfortunately. You might be surprised about digitized sources - the 1990s can be rough, but earlier than that is often digitized in national archives. -- asilvering (talk) 03:33, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello @Opj5000, it looks like you are referring to the Indonesian-language Wikipedia. Each Wikipedia project has its own rules and its own set of articles; we at the English Wikipedia cannot help with matters on the Indonesian Wikipedia. You can try asking at :id:Wikipedia:Warung Kopi (Lain-lain), Indonesian Wikipedia's version of the Teahouse. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 03:36, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for direction, will try to consult there! Opj5000 (talk) 05:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Please also be aware of :id:Wikipedia:Konflik kepentingan (equivalent of our WP:COI) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:03, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi Teahouse,

I recently submitted an article draft about my company/organization [BNW Developments] on Wikipedia, but it was not accepted. I tried to follow the guidelines, wrote in a neutral tone, and included references. However, it keeps getting declined or deleted, and I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.

Can someone kindly help me understand what specific issues might be causing the rejection? Is it about notability, tone, sourcing, or something else?

I’d really appreciate any guidance or suggestions for improving it so that it meets Wikipedia’s standards.

Thanks in advance! SamCollierz (talk) 05:44, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:If you see it getting rejected, you will also find somewhere in the rejection field the reason for the AfC declined. Usually AfC reviewer must leave a reason as to why they have rejected the Article. Thankyou. Wh67890 (talk) 06:15, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Also the place where you wrote your WP:First article is called sandbox and it is different than draftspace and as I see it was deleted because it contains promotional tone. Please write new article in WP:About the sandbox but without any promotional tone. Wh67890 (talk) 07:34, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::No, do not create article content in the public sandbox, it is for edit testing, and gets blanked frequently. (@Wh67890, please do not give incorrect or misleading advice.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:42, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::My mistake, I gave link on public sandbox instead of about the sandbox. Wh67890 (talk) 09:42, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Each time Wikipedia mention the reason that Promotional Content.

::Could you please help me to write the article? SamCollierz (talk) 03:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @SamCollierz: I assume you're referring to your sandbox draft User:SamCollierz/sandbox? This was deleted (a couple of months ago) as purely promotional, with no evidence of notability. I don't believe it was ever submitted for review, so wouldn't have been declined or rejected (which are two different outcomes) at AfC.

:I've posted a paid-editing query on your talk page, please read and action it. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:33, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:If you intend to work to improve it and make it suitable for publication, you can request undeletion of your sandbox: WP:REFUND. However, you should first be sure that you can demonstarte that the company meets the requirements at WP:NCORP. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:25, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::My business has been featured on several reputable websites and platforms. Given this visibility, I am unclear why it is still considered to lack notability. SamCollierz (talk) 03:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:::"featured on several reputable websites and platforms" is irrevelvant, if the coverage is not significant (i.e. in-depth), independent and in a reliable source.

:::Which three sources do you think meet those requirements? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:35, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

I am not able to edit and correct my Wikipedia. P_lease help me. Rasagiline (talk) 10:17, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Are you referring to Moussa B. H. Youdim? Is that about you? If so, please see WP:About you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:54, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi, some month back i was partially blocked to edit articles, so i was tasked to make edit request on article talk pages, I have made some edits, but i have not been able to get them reviewed by an editor

1. Talk:Elli Papakonstantinou
2. Talk:Julie Brigham-Grette
3. Talk:Samuel Kamau Macharia
4. Talk:Roberto Capucci
5. Talk:Princess Lalla Hasna of Morocco
6. Talk:NaakMusiQ
7. Talk:Ahmed Shafik (surgeon)

i have attached the articles i made edit requests for, please is there something i am missing Funtiberry (talk) 12:02, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{yo|Funtiberry}} Five of the seven requests are from yesterday, and the other two are only a couple of days older. Edit requests are handled by volunteers (like everything else at Wikipedia), and there is no way of knowing when someone will have the time and inclination to look at a particular edit request – but a few days is not a long wait, so you may simply need to change your expectations a little. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 12:11, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you, for your time... well understood Funtiberry (talk) 12:12, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::I was just checking wither an edit request I made on 7 May had been dealt with.

::It hasn't. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:29, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Should I report this person? I’m not sure how or where to, or whether I can.

See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nineteen_Eighty-Four&diff=prev&oldid=1294842914 here] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nineteen_Eighty-Four&diff=prev&oldid=1294848640 here]. Keeper of Albion (talk) 12:04, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Please follow the guidance at WP:DR. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Keeper of Albion I haven't looked in detail at the diffs but the general approach is part of our usual process aimed to reach a consensus for what should be in articles. You are certainly entitled to revert other editor's contributions if you don't think they improve an article. Try, however, to keep any parts you think are OK and only revert the parts you disagree with. Then use the article's talk page (and your edit summary) to explain what you have done. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:34, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Such as: "What video games revisit past video games' levels other than Sonic Generations, Shadow Generations, the Lego Dimensions Sonic Level Pack, and Sonic Mania? Counting sequels, not remakes or remasters."

My reason for asking this question is that, as I said in Special:Diff/1294902864 (and, before that, in Special:Diff/1285603051),

{{blockquote|According to MOS:VG#Exceptions, "It is usually inappropriate to list all the levels in a game, but Sonic Generations is an exception because its reliance on aspects from prior Sonic games is the basis of the game." Sonic Generations#Levels and Shadow Generations#Levels are instances of this exception, and Sonic Mania#Levels probably is, too.}} Ss0jse (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:On the talk page of the articles concerned, or on the talk pages of the policies.

:More generally, follow the guidance at WP:DR. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:26, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I found this passage regarding putting down a rent strike in early New York state:

"Here was a sight to behold. The Dutch had taken the Hallebarreck. War, pestilence and famine inevitable. Good God! What was to be done! Some took salts, some turned pale, got the diarrhoea and sent for the doctor, and some went to lawyers to know if there was no get off. Some went to the ministers to ask for prayers, and some went to bed. Throughout, the day was one of excitement. The Irish invoked St. Patrick, and the Dutch cried “to de blixen and duyvel mid your possy commeatus,” while the Yankee reckoned it “a bad spec and that he shouldn’t engage in’t.”

I don't know exactly what the Dutch cried, even if "hallebarreck" almost certainly means "warpath". Also, what did "a bad spec" probably mean? Shushimnotrealstooge (talk) 16:14, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:A bad speculation, a bad business or bad direction that's not worth pursuing. Hope that helps. Just Al (talk) Just Al (talk) 17:10, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Try asking on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Netherlands; or WP:REFDESK/L. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:30, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Even without speaking 'Dutch', I have enough general Germanic and Latin to tell that "to de blixen and duyvel mid your possy commeatus" means "to the lightning and [the] devil with your posse comitatus", which is probably an English writer's parodic imitation of what they thought 'Dutch' people might say.

:Note that in the context, 'Dutch' might refer to actual Dutch people (New York having previously been New Amsterdam), or might actually refer to German (Deutch) people, as in Pennsylvania Dutch. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.40.15 (talk) 18:07, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{u|Drmies}} is a native Dutch speaker who has expertise in Middle English and Old English literature. It is likely that he can analyze archaic Dutch writing. Cullen328 (talk) 04:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:: Fake Dutch, as IP 94 said. Mathglot (talk) 19:47, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

The article is at: User:Jagretee/sandbox

how do I publish it? or if it has to be reviewed how do I submit it for review? Please help Jagriti (talk) 16:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Please follow the process described at WP:AFC.

:But first you need more independent, reliable sources, per WP:V.

:See also WP:FIRST. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:00, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you.

::Now it is in Draft:Uma Subedi. Could someone please help move it to the article namespace?" Jagriti (talk) 17:22, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::@Jagretee There is a large blue "submit" button at the top of the draft, so you can submit it for review when you are ready. If you do that now, the draft will be rapidly declined because it doesn't show how this author is notable in the quirky way Wikipedia defines that word. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:25, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::She is a published author of many books in Nepali language. How can I help get it published if it can be declined? Do I need to edit her contribution in Nepali literature? Any help will be appreciated. Jagriti (talk) 17:35, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::You can get it published by adding more independent, reliable sources, to show that the subject meets WP:NAUTHOR, as already advised. If she does not, then she is not eligible for a Wikipedia article. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:43, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I have added an accurate comment about Neo-Nazis. I am a history professor who studies Nazism. Why removed? 2603:7080:AA40:69:84E1:221A:CF28:A08F (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dave_Smith_%28comedian%29&diff=1295284685&oldid=1294969756 This edit] was reverted by User:Pro-anti-air; you could ask them on their talk page, but now that I have mentioned them, hopefully they will comment here. I'll hazard a guess that it's because you described someone as a neo-nazi, without citing a source, contrary to our policy on biographies of living people.

:As a history professor, I'm sure you understand the importance of citing sources. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:06, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:There's a link to Gavin McInnes where you made your edit. If you're going to apply negative epithets to McInnes, you should either cite a reference, or use something from Wikipedia's article about him, preferably from its lead. There's plenty critical material there. Maproom (talk) 22:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

How do I appeal a block? 2600:382:3831:94C:2DD5:9D4C:7DE2:126A (talk) 00:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Evading it to ask how to appeal is not a good start- if instructions were not provided on your user talk page, please see instructions and the unblock appeals guide. If you don't have access to your user talk page, use WP:UTRS. 331dot (talk) 00:19, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::If their intent was to evade, they would have edited a page, not immediately noted that they were blocked. This is clearly in good faith and does not violate the purpose of a block (“prevent you from making disruptive edits”).

::Indeed, this actually makes it more difficult for them to violate the actual purpose of the block, because they just made it clear that they are blocked. So I would say a good start. LordDiscord (talk) 12:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Hello,

I am currently writing my PhD thesis on the subject of “greenwashing”.

In the course of my research, I noticed that a change was recently made to the Wikipedia entry on the term “greenwashing” and then restored by another editor with reference to certain sources.

For my scientific work, I am in urgent need of primary and absolutely reliable sources to verify the original coining of the term “greenwashing” by Jay Westerveld. The sources currently mentioned in the entry, which were added afterwards, are unfortunately not sufficient for my requirements as primary evidence. I have not been able to clearly identify the essay in which Jay Westerveld is said to have coined the term.

Could you please help me to find the exact reference or the exact location of this essay? A verified primary source for this is of utmost importance to my research and I urgently need your assistance in this search.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sofia Verstappen Sofia Verstappen (talk) 11:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:It seems to me, {{U|Sofia Verstappen}}, that rather than asking about a concept, you're asking about a word. If this is so, then rather than asking here in Wikipedia, you'd be better off asking at Wiktionary. But that said: Even desultory googling brings plenty of (disappointingly imprecise) claims that Westerveld coined this -- somewhere, and meaning something -- in 1986. However, [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22greenwashing%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1980,cd_max:1987&lr=lang_en this] brings earlier uses. (Change the values for cd_min and cd_max to taste.) -- Hoary (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Courtesy link: Greenwashing.

:It may be that Westerveld was the first prominent writer to use and popularise the word, but had encountered it in previous more obscure writing. Hopefully, Sophia, others can help you, but in passing, note that as a Tertiary source, Wikipedia by policy prefers to base itself on Secondary sources, and only uses Primary sources sparingly: see further Wikipedia:No original research#Primary, secondary and tertiary sources and Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources. Good luck! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.40.15 (talk) 11:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Sofia Verstappen, welcome to Wikipedia. You may be looking in the wrong place, as Wikipedia – like all encyclopaedias – is a tertiary source which aims to summarise reliable secondary sources where possible. I did have a cursory look at the Greenwashing and Jay Westerveld articles as well as the wikt:greenwashing entry in our sister project Wiktionary, but didn't see references to Westerveld's essay in any of those places. To be honest, this sounds like a question you should take to your university library reference desk or your doctoral supervisor before a random assortment of strangers on the internet. (We do have our own reference desk here, but I really want to encourage you to use the resources provided by your institution before a bunch of volunteers who come and go as we please.) ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 11:43, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::True, ClaudineChionh, but (i) Sofia may have queried those resources already; (ii) Wikipedia has a reputation, not entirely undeserved, of having a few editors who, if interested, can sometimes unearth hidden evidence rather as a well-trained pig unearths truffles. -- Hoary (talk) 11:51, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::Hi Sofia,

::About all we can do is point to the references already in place at the article. So you could try following back a statement made at Greenwashing to the sources we used to determine it but that's really all we can do. Some Wikipedia editors have access to a large library of academic journals and other such materials but I'm sure you, as a PhD candidate, also have such access through your school. Beyond that all I can do is reinforce what others have told you: Wiktionary may be a better destination for a specific etymological question. Simonm223 (talk) 11:51, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:::@Sofia Verstappen

:::The Oxford English Dictionary attempts to find the earliest usage of words. For greenwashing, the earliest usage is from September 1987, and the source listed is "Commerc. Appeal (Memphis, Tennessee) 4 September (Final edition) a9/4" (whatever that might be). Blackballnz (talk) 01:37, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi, while I was looking for some media to add to a wiki page I found a website. I wanted to add the media from it but I noticed that it was blacklisted on En Wikipedia. Is it wrong to add media from such websites? What if the media is helpful? Do we need any permissions from fellow wikipedians to add such media? Frodo Maximus (talk) 11:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{yo|Frodo Maximus}} Links to websites on the blacklist can't be added to any Wikipedia pages (articles, talk pages, etc). If you try, you will get an error message telling you that the text you are trying to add contains a blacklisted link. If there is a particular link that you believe should be allowed in Wikipedia, you can request whitelisting of that url here. Make sure you read all the information at the top of the page carefully before you make the request. --bonadea contributions talk 12:06, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks, my friend! Frodo Maximus (talk) 04:04, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi Teahouse Member's

I'm a Journalist and I have to create a Wikipedia page for myself. I infact tried to create a page, but it was rejected from the reviewer. Can Someone please support me? Journorahull (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:You do not "have to". See also WP:Autobiography. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:23, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Plural nouns do not need apostrophes. Osa Akwamarynowa (talk) 02:38, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::I don't know who told you that you "have to" but I would suggest that you ask them to read WP:BOSS. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 09:23, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

{{courtesy link|Draft:Ling Bouvier}}

Hi! I submitted a draft for the article Ling Bouvier (The Simpsons) — would anyone be willing to take a look and provide feedback or possibly review it faster? Mirror5ioa (talk) 15:35, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{yo|Mirror5ioa}} Looks like someone has already done so. But why the hurry? You posted this request only a few minutes after creating the draft! --bonadea contributions talk 16:02, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Mirror5ioa The problem with your current draft (which has already been declined by a reviewer) is that it cites no sources. Hence readers can't verify what you write, no matter how true you think that is. You need to find published reliable sources that show that this character is notable in the specific way Wikipedia defines that word. Fan sites will not be sufficient: we need editorial oversight in the sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::... See Lisa Simpson for the type of sources required for an article rated "good". Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:07, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

I made a major revision to the wiki page for Jerome McGann but @ 75.75.120.254 (talk) 16:21, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:There are no edits made under your IP address. Were you signed in? Did you select the "Publish" button?

:I have left some useful links on your talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:25, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:If you are User:InternalExile, this is explained at WP:Help desk#Completely befuddled. Please don't ask the same question in two places. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

In music articles, ive seen many mark the octave numbers with the HTML subscripts or use Template:Sub like this F3 and I started doing it myself and I think it looks nice. But somehow I didnt see it in MOS:SUBSCRIPT or MOS:MUSIC. drinks or coffee ~ ♪ 17:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:It would be best if you raised the matter on the talk page of those MOS pages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:44, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:And I will note that Unicode subscript digits (₀ ₁ ₂ ₃ ₄ ₅ ₆ ₇ ₈ ₉) should not be used. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:39, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

What is the most recent species to have gone extinct? Donald is Jurassic (talk) 20:52, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Donald is Jurassic, welcome to the Teahouse. This is a place to get help with using and editing Wikipedia. Your question would be better at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. Anyway, nobody knows. It takes a while before a species is declared extinct, and it's hard to be sure. Many small species like insects probably go extinct without ever having been discovered. Maybe the reference desk can find a list of recently declared extinct species by some authoritative source. You may also be interested in Special:PrefixIndex/List of recently extinct. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:37, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

I am new here and can't figure out how to link published pictures (giving appropriate credit/copyright consdierations) to articles. I've noticed those with pictures have much better engagement. Any obvious tips I'm missing? RockyGrrl (talk) 22:28, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:RockyGrrl, NB those "credit/copyright considerations" can be complex and they certainly don't resemble what goes on in Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, and the like. ("Yes it's copyright, but I'll credit the copyright holder, say it's for Wikipedia only; I'm sure they won't mind" will not fly.) Unless you're planning to claim the "fair use" of a conventionally copyrighted picture for a particular purpose, you're better off uploading the public domain [in the legal sense of the term] or copyleft picture to Wikimedia Commons than to upload it here. :c:Help:Contents has a list of links to pages that explain the process. -- Hoary (talk) 02:32, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{ping|RockyGrrl}} uploading images such as :File:Sylviaarenas2025.jpg is completely unacceptable. You have not done even the "giving appropriate credit/copyright consdierations" you said, but have instead provided "Source Public figure social media account" and "Author Unknown author". You cannot just grab a picture from the web and upload it to Commons; it is a copyright violation, plain and simple (see :c:COM:WEBCOPYVIO). To upload images you must either have taken them yourself, or they must have an existing free license (see :c:COM:L) or they must be in public domain (which does not mean that the image is widely available). And you must be able to prove the free license or public domain status. To upload pictures taken by others without such a license you must convince the copyright holder to send explicit permission via :c:VRT (and "permission to use in Wikipedia" is not sufficient either). MKFI (talk) 10:17, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Can someone direct me to the list of reliable sources. I remember Guinness Book was not acceptable. I ca't find the list. 2600:8802:3A09:6400:7589:F93C:4F07:A49A (talk) 00:49, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Is WP:RSP what you're looking for? [[User:CanonNi]] (talk • contribs) 00:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::Please be aware that Reliable sources/Perennial sources {{tpq|is not a general or comprehensive list of all generally reliable or unreliable sources in the world}}. It is instead a list of sources whose reliability has been discussed frequently over the years. Editors need to develop the important skill of assessing the reliability of lesser known sources on their own. Cullen328 (talk) 11:04, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

According to Oxford dictionary, the verb forms of this word can be either single or double s. However, the preferred iOS spelling correction is focuses. Which is more appropriate?

Like the word gas, the plural can be either gases or gasses. MarcoToa1 (talk) 02:39, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:My American spellchecker is happy with both. HiLo48 (talk) 03:31, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::Although the two spelling are both acceptable in British or American English, I usually prefer the single s version. MarcoToa1 (talk) 05:14, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::The double s version is not rare, but it is less common. MarcoToa1 (talk) 05:15, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::::While spelling should be consistent within a specific article, there may not be a WP-"appropriate" spelling, so leaving it alone on a WP-wide basis is probably fine. I don't know if this falls within WP:ENGVAR. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:40, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Your preference is immaterial; do not go around changing others' uses of the version you dislike, as you have recently been doing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

People sometimes use plural adjectival nouns (for example the blind, the disabled, the elderly). However, sometimes it may be considered inappropriate because it suggests that all people (for example people who are deaf/blind/elderly/homeless etc. are all the same. From now, if I find these uses in any articles, I’ll change it. (For example use people with disabilities or disabled people for the disabled and blind people for the blind) MarcoToa1 (talk) 05:29, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:The expressions without relation to disabilities is fine . MarcoToa1 (talk) 05:30, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::Avoid using these terms

::The disabled

::The deaf

::The blind

::The handicapped

::The subnormal

::The dumb

::The deaf and dumb

::The colo[u]r blind

::etc. MarcoToa1 (talk) 05:33, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::This appears to be (mostly) a very personal preference. Be aware of WP:COMMUNICATE and WP:BRD, WP:EW can get you blocked. If this is something you want to suggest implementing WP-wide, the WP:MOS talkpage may be the place to start. The Teahouse is not the place for this kind of "declaration." You can also ask for input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disability. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:46, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Aside from personal preference, though, what would the real difference between the blind and blind people be? Augnablik (talk) 06:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::It feels natural to say the French voted for Macron, whereas French people are known for liking smelly cheese - so I'd say the difference is that the former is a statement about the group as a whole, rather than about it's members. Although a lot of organisations are called something like "Such And Such School For The Blind" and in those instances it is right to call things what they are called so personal preference doesn't really factor into it. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 08:23, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::I sort of see where you’re coming from, D’n’B, but it seems to me that to say “the French are known for liking smelly cheese” sounds just as natural as “French people …”

::::::That said, I think that if we made either declaration in Paris, we’d have to duck and run for describing cheese liked by French people/ the French as smelly! Sacré bleu! 🤭 Augnablik (talk) 11:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Out of curiosity, where did you see en-WP use "subnormal" about people, outside quotes etc? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:26, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Both "the handicapped" and "handicapped people" are poor style. They are too vague (too diverse a concept, both type and extent) to be useful in almost any context and are examples of typically needless identity-first language. That latter applies even to the more homogeneous groups listed. DMacks (talk) 09:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Several of the changes you have recently made to such terms were in quotations from published sources or speech. Do not edit quotations like that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:38, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|MarcoToa1}}. This is the second time that you have posted here to announce your personal rules for the use of English, and state that you intended to impose them unilaterally on Wikipedia. As I told you there, this is not the way to do this. However laudable your intention may be, Wikipedia is created by consensus, and one editor imposing their own views (particularly after others have objected) is disruptive editing, and may get you blocked.

:Discuss your proposals, and achieve consensus before you try implementing them; either at WP:VPP as I suggested or at the WP:MOS talk page as GGS suggested. --ColinFine (talk) 15:05, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

On the article William Marshall, 1st Earl of Pembroke, The Issue (children) is missing from infobox for some unknown reason, but its not missing from his wife Isabel de Clare, 4th Countess of Pembroke infobox. So for the sake of consistency, and for not confusing those who read the article, i've tried to add it in , but for some reason something weird happens and the infobox becomes messy. You try it yourself. What is going on? why is this happening? if it has something to do with not yet having an account, then can someone please add the issue in the infobox? 76.68.113.121 (talk) 06:10, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

You can add "| issue = {{plainlist|", followed by the right list. Look at how it is there for the Countess, and follow the details exactly. Bduke (talk) 06:23, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:I did that before too, it didnt work 76.68.113.121 (talk) 06:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::IP editor. I don't know what went wrong in your case but I had no trouble copying the list over from the wife, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Marshal%2C_1st_Earl_of_Pembroke&diff=1295543118&oldid=1295525011 this diff]. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:45, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

I've had an argument over whether gender inequality in Korea was related to the finger pinching conspiracy theory on Talk:Finger pinching conspiracy theory. The argument was that while some news articles have mentioned South Korea's gender inequality in their article, it can't be assumed that it is related to the topic, since none of them gave any links or relations to it. You can see the full discussion on the topic. During the debate, I was pointed to this Teahouse to seek advices for my doing. I have made some mistakes when I was new to wikipedia, but during the time of discussion, I didn't realize any violation of Wikipedia's policies to the point where it could be seen as disruptive. Could you help me with what I might have done wrong and what I could improve on? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Someone123454321 (talk • contribs) 07:47, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:If you were directed here for that purpose, then whosever did so was mistaken. This forum is for advice on how to edit, not for dispute resolution.

:If talk page discussion is not helping, please follow the process outlined at WP:DR. One thing you might consider is asking for a third opinion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:33, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

I have an article I've created, and I've been trying to get published for over two years now. It is an article about my local public high school and contains facts about academics, extracurriculars, the history of the school, quick facts, and even the plans regarding the new football field.

Currently, the article has been rejected for appearing "to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia." I do agree with this, and I’m open to fixing it. But even after multiple revisions, the submission is still dismissed for the same reason. I would greatly appreciate any help rewording parts of the article to meet Wikipedia’s standards. I truly just want this page to be published now, because I think it’s quite unfair that every single high school near me has a page (I checked), and mine doesn’t.

I kindly request any extra guidance regarding my article, and I’m flexible about changing any parts of it. And I would rather help than be told my article isn’t important like before.

Here's a link to my article: Draft:Springdale Jr-Sr High School (Pennsylvania)

Thank you, Cv822 (talk) 10:18, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:I agree that the article is more neutral than previous. I don't think it's ready yet though. The minutae of what rooms are in each wing does not seem worthwhile content, nor do the naming of various areas. Those are both types of things that might be on an "about us" page of the school's own website and are likely interesting to those in the community, but aren't really "worldwide encyclopedia" material and could come across as self-promotional. The extensive level detail about the stadium is likewise only of interest to those in the community. However, and I know this is what you asked not to be told, but it's the real qustion: is this school actually notable, per WP:GNG? Individual high schools do not automatically merit their own articles (WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES). It's quite possible that only some of several in an area do (each must stand on its own merits, not by association) and it's also possible that existing nearby-school articles also do not meet current article standards either. Proving that it is means finding multiple high-quality in-depth refs, and those would be the basis for writing neutral content about it beyond the play-by-play of its construction and generic laundry-lists of its student activities. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article advice. DMacks (talk) 10:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Courtesy link to Wikipedia:Other stuff exists

:Adding on to what DMacks said, just the creation of an article can be seen as promotion (even if that wasn't your intention, and I doubt it was), as not all information is notable enough for its inclusion in Wikipedia to be WP:NPOV. If the school is notable, then that will be demonstrated by in-depth coverage in reliable and independent sources. If that is the case, then only including the information discussed there, in the proportion discussed there, will help the article stay neutral. Unfortunately, as said above, your school might not be notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia. TheDowningStreetCat (talk) 11:18, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Please don't use multiple forums to seek assistance. 331dot (talk) 11:25, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::Sorry, I didn't realize that was a rule Cv822 (talk) 11:28, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::It's not a "rule" per se, but it duplicates effort. 331dot (talk) 11:31, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

my client Gameloft wants their wikipedia article locked from edits anyone know how to get it locked 2601:19E:4381:A500:2415:82BF:97A7:ECA9 (talk) 10:19, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:See WP:BOSS. An article shouldn't - and likely wont - be edited or changed because of the wishes of the subject or an editor paid by the subject, and such a paid relationship must be disclosed. If there is a legitimate reason that the article should be locked from edits, such as frequent vandalism, then the articles talk page is probably the best place to request that. Others could probably help you more with making that request. TheDowningStreetCat (talk) 10:31, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Courtesy link: Gameloft. IP user, in addition to WP:BOSS that TheDowningStreetCat links to above, you should ask your client to read this policy: Wikipedia:Ownership of content. Articles are protected ("locked") to protect the encyclopedia from disruption, and one common type of disruption is that somebody wants to make sure that the article about them contains no criticism, or that it is written in a very positive tone. That is not Wikipedia's purpose, and if this article were to be "locked" it would be to protect it from inappropriate edits such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gameloft&diff=prev&oldid=1295535014 this one]. --bonadea contributions talk 10:43, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:I note that you recently edited the article. As they are your client, you are required to abide by our WP:PAID policy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:27, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Please see this for more context

The articles on chinese firefighting are an absolute mess and have made the entire situation very confusing. In fact, the national fire and rescue administration article was originally meant to be for the China Fire and Rescue(the firefighting force, bit like how the US navy is under the department of the navy), but somehow ended up being about the post-2023 agency instead, ironically making the article older than the agency.

For whatever reason, whoever decided to change the topic of the original article moved it instead of splitting it, causing the horrible situation now where the NFRA article is somehow about both the NRFA and China Fire and Rescue.

Those are very very different things, and should be split; could somebody please do it for me as it likely could be very messy.(If you know Chinese, read the chinese articles, they have managed it pretty well)

Additionally, articles on the ministry of emergency management fire and rescue bureau and ministry of emergency management forest fire bureau should also be made. Thehistorianisaac (talk) 12:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I write to suggest that an article be devoted to Gloria Sengha, arguably the DRCongo’s most prominent democracy and human rights activist. I see there is a long article in the French Wikipedia but only a couple of scattered mentions in English. I would be happy to write up a first draft for review, if you like.

She has been arrested on multiple occasions and is currently being sought by the secret police. There is therefore some urgency.

thank you, Daronson64 (talk) 13:16, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{u|Daronson64}} Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. While we have no deadlines here, you may use the Article Wizard to create and submit a draft article, though writing a new article can be challenging. 331dot (talk) 13:23, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Are you able to make a translation from the article available on "Wikipedia in French" ?

:Link to the article in French : ":fr:Gloria Sengha Panda Shala".

:It would be certainly easier than write an article from scratch. Anatole-berthe (talk) 13:35, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @Daronson64, and welcome to the Teahouse. You are welcome to do this, but please start by reading WP:translation. Note that, whether you translate the French article, or try writing it in a different way, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have the sources necessary to establish that she meets English Wikipedia's criteria for notability. The sources cited in the French article may or may not be adequate for the English Wikipedia. (Being in French is not a problem, but they need to meet the triple criterion in WP:42 - I haven't checked whether or not they appear to do so) ColinFine (talk) 15:13, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I am writing this to show you that the Glitch Productions articles I created are being taken down for no apparent reason. Even the people who are taking it down are users, not administrators, who just won’t leave me alone.

Thank you. RockandHipHop (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Grievances with user behavior should be brought to WP:ANI, but that should be a last resort after all other resolution efforts have failed. 331dot (talk) 14:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:Not for "no apparent reason", but for the reasons - good reasons - explained on your talk page, and in the deletion discussions linked from there. Please read those; and WP:42. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::I know doing so is for good reasons, but they just do speedy deletions, and when I check on there, the deleter is just a user. RockandHipHop (talk) 15:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

:::No, the person proposing deletion is"just" a user; that's allowed. Only an admin can actually delete. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia have a policy about quoting two speakers as if they were one?

The Shooting Brake entry has this quote:

:A body style with "a very interesting profile. It makes use of the road space it covers a little better than a normal coupé, and also helps the rear person with headroom. ... The occasional use of the rear seat means you can do one of these cars, even if such a wagon lacks the everyday practicality of four doors."

This makes it sound like it's quoting one person.

But the original looks like this. I've boldfaced the parts that were quoted in the Wikipedia article:

:It is not your basic two-door hatchback, a body style with different proportions: the hatchback tends to be squatty, while a shooting brake is sleek and has “a very interesting profile,” in the words of Peter Horbury, executive director of design for North America for the Ford Motor Company.

:“It makes use of the road space it covers a little better than a normal coupe, and also helps the rear person with headroom,” Mr. Horbury added. “Especially in America, every member of the family has their own car. The occasional use of the rear seat means you can do one of these cars,” even if such a wagon lacks the everyday practicality of four doors.

Most of the Wikepedia quote is from Peter Horbury, but the last part, "even if such a wagon lacks the everyday practicality of four doors." appears to be an addition by the original article's author, Willian Diem of the New York Times.

Should a Wikipedia quote make that distinction, or does it not matter on the prinicle that it is all a quote from that NYT article? Greg Lovern (talk) 18:39, 14 June 2025 (UTC)