Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/state-of-matter#Blind PT

• PTG/theme-state-of-matter

• In this theme, as a science, there is discussion on SoM should be noted as "of the real world material" (like O₂, diamnd/graphite C), or plasma-phase (more physical) property. WT:ELEM.

::See also this parallel talk: {{slink|Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elements|Emergency_edit:_remove_fontcoloring_State-of-Matter}}

• All fontcolors are set to be black. Contrast problems too bad. -DePiep (talk) 19:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Details (2021-01-23)

:These two edits did it:

::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Element_color&diff=prev&oldid=1002292325&diffmode=source] ({{tl|Element_color}})

::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Periodic_table_legend/State_of_matter&diff=prev&oldid=1002292304&diffmode=source] {{tl|Periodic table legend/State of matter}}

:Mainspace articles affected:

• Chemical element
• Timeline of chemical element discoveries
• Periodic table
• Period 3 element
• Valence (chemistry)
• Standard atomic weight
• Naming of chemical elements

;By font color:

• {{Element color/example|solid|attr=color}}
• {{Element color/example|liquid|attr=color}}
• {{Element color/example|gas|attr=color}}
• {{Element color/example|unknown phase|attr=color}}

;Wikilink blue

• {{Element color/example|wikilink|attr=color}}
• {{Element color/example|wikilink visited|attr=color|note=wikilink, visited}}

:Legend=empty by Emergency edit.

{{PTG/contrast-header|set=2020|note=|title=Contrast check for SoM font colors ("2020")|state=mw-collapsed}}

|-

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=s-block|fontcolor=solid|note=AlkMetal |hsv=yes}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=s-block|fontcolor=gas|note=H, He |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=s-block|fontcolor=somunk|note=Unk |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=s-block|fontcolor=wl|note=wl |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=p-block|fontcolor=solid|note=solid |hsv=yes}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=p-block|fontcolor=liquid|note=Br |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=p-block|fontcolor=gas|note=N, O, F etc. |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=p-block|fontcolor=somunk|note=Unk |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=p-block|fontcolor=wl|note=wl |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=d-block|fontcolor=solid|note=solid |hsv=yes}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=d-block|fontcolor=liquid|note=Hg |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=d-block|fontcolor=somunk|note=Unk |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=d-block|fontcolor=wl|note=wl |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=f-block|fontcolor=solid|note=solid |hsv=yes}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=f-block|fontcolor=somunk|note=Unk |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=f-block|fontcolor=wl|note=wl |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=g-block|fontcolor=somunk|note=UNK all in g-block |hsv=yes}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=g-block|fontcolor=wl|note=wl |hsv=no}}

|}

{{PTG/contrast-header|set=2020|note=|title=Contrast check for SoM font colors ("2020")}}

|-

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=s-block|fontcolor=liquid|note=---- |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=d-block|fontcolor=gas|note=---- |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=f-block|fontcolor=liquid|note=---- |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=f-block|fontcolor=gas|note=---- |hsv=no}}

|-

|

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=g-block|fontcolor=solid|note=---- |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=g-block|fontcolor=liquid|note=---- |hsv=no}}

{{PTG/contrast-row|set=2020|name=g-block|fontcolor=gas|note=---- |hsv=no}}

|}

{{Periodic table/ptg-blind-zh-char|set=2020}}

:(lol name/id: has nothing to do with SoM because we don't want to go back to (SoM)-fontcolors). -DePiep (talk) 01:03, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

• Topic 'block bg colors' move to Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/blocks#Block-wl color contrast. -DePiep (talk) 17:40, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

;April 5, 2021

:File:Gas phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

:File:Liquid phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

:File:Solid phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

:File:Phase, blank placeholder.svg

::DePiep (talk) 22:11, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

::{{tl|Element cell-named/som-image}} -- cell

These sets of icons are mentioned:

• LP03, 2021-01-18 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elements/PTG/state-of-matter&diff=1001082712&oldid=1000139535&diffmode=source]

::Solid: A black cube, like 20px

::Liquid: A black teardrop, like 20px

::Gas: A black cloud, like 20px

::Unknown phase: A black question mark, like 20px

• YBG, 2021-01-25 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elements&diff=1002759702&oldid=1002747026&diffmode=source]

:: 20px - a cloud for gasses

:: 20px - a drop for liquids

:: 20px - a cube for solids

• DePiep, 2021-01-27

:File:Gas phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

:File:Liquid phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

:File:Solid phase, icon in black-and-white.svg

::DePiep (talk) 22:11, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

• DePiep, Unicode characters
• {{unichar|1F4A7|DROPLET}}
• {{unichar|1F322|BLACK DROPLET}}
• {{unichar|286A|BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-2467}}

;Responses & commentary

:::Worth thinking about: Plasma (physics) phase? -DePiep (talk) 22:19, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

::::No. -DePiep (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

:Plasma is not needed in a PT context, though if there were any chance the icon set would be used in contexts broader that the PT, it would be a plus to have a coherent set of four. But not sufficiently a plus that it should derail progress.

:Any of these would work for me. DePiep's has the interesting characteristic that when presented as shown above they look like a candle with a flame and smoke. YBG (talk) 07:40, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

::OK, won't create a plasm one then (Double sharp also note this at WT:ELEM). Will work on a PT-implementation. As I mentioned before, for recognisability when font-size small, I prefer the simple 2D ones. And yes, a candle :-) BTW, I think the gas-dots are not randomly enough, can't help thinking about domino tiles ;-) -DePiep (talk) 12:06, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

:::I think there might be some benefit to having 3-D effects visible at larger sizes provided they automagically disappear into invisibility at smaller sizes.

:::As to making the dots more random, consider these possibilities (1) remove the 2nd-from-bottom dot on the left; (2) make some of the dots a different size or different shape.

:::YBG (talk) 06:07, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

::::re "3D when in larger sizes" -- in which situation would this help? 2D-to-3D (icon-to-image!) does not make its legend superfluous (iow image still needs clarification). And when these are in here, there are about 5–9 data facts per cell. So imo no need for extra details. We surely should see a full PT mockup first (also, because I think that supports my points ;-) ). Working on this. -DePiep (talk) 22:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

FWIW, my favourite is LP03's, but I'd be fine with any. Double sharp (talk) 08:00, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

::Se my reply to YBG above. -DePiep (talk) 22:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

• First demo in PT: {{tl|Periodic table/som-image}}. -DePiep (talk) 21:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

The more I think about it - and now especially that I've seen your example - the more I think that the 3D effect is helpful. These black rectangles look to me like so many scraps of carbon paper. YBG (talk) 06:30, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

:{{+1}} Double sharp (talk) 07:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

::{{nobold|1={{-n}}}} We have to show 118 statuses, and showing a pattern with it. So better use icons/symbols, not images.

::As with background colors, to do so icons or symbols can do this; a picture does not help at all. The profit is: once you know the mental-easy meaning of a well-chosen symbol, only once, one cannot unknow it and one will recognise it easily by looking not by 'interpreting'. Best illustration for this: A-B-C-... Would you be helpd reading a book or paper when the alphabet was 3D? Images? Above this, the cell has much more info (esp. text and numbers), which makes it hartder to distinguish details (like, giving meaning to serif/non-serif font distinction). All in all, the question here is presenting information, not eh documenting it. -DePiep (talk) 18:00, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Now the result for Fl (predicted liquid) seems to be formally published: [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/anie.202100486]. So if one wanted, one could definitely write a cited predicted state for the transactinoids too: all solid, except Cn and Fl liquids. (It may be useful in some cases even if we eventually decide not to do it for the main PT.) Double sharp (talk) 09:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC)