Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/September 2007

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Hi all - it's just been pointed out to me that {{tl|SouthMoravia-geo-stub}} has reached its 60th article. Time for a {{cl|South Moravian Region geography stubs}}, methinks. Grutness...wha? 12:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

• fits the previous pattern Speedy support. Waacstats 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy. Alai 20:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

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• {{cl|Ahrweiler geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Altenkirchen district geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Bad Kreuznach district geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Birkenfeld district geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Cochem-Zell geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Mayen-Koblenz geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Neuwied district geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Rhein-Lahn-Kreis geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Rhein-Hunsrück geography stubs}}

That's all but two of the upmerged templates; regional-level cat is oversized. Alai 23:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

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Oversized, mainly due to undersorting. OTOH, might be a timely moment to consider some additional subtypes. By denomination seems to be the dominant method: these new ones would work:

• {{cl|Methodist bishop stubs}} 139
• {{cl|Eastern Orthodox bishop stubs}} 85
• {{cl|Early Church bishop stubs}} or {{cl|bishop of the Early Church stubs}} 85

Also potentially useful would be a {{cl|United Kingdom bishop stubs}}, {{cl|Church of England bishop stubs}}, or both, given the number of (arch)bish-of-someplace-in-England cats we have cluttering up the parent. Alai 00:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

• {{cl|Bernkastel-Wittlich geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Bitburg-Prüm geography stubs}}
• {{cl|Trier-Saarburg geography stubs}}

These are already approved as upmerged templates, except that I didn't get around to creating them as such. Oh well. At any rate, they're now easily viable as full-fledged types, and the parent (the Rheinland-P-geos) is once more significantly oversized. Since there's a fairly small number of these, I don't see much point in creating the regional container (especially give the small matter of its technical non-existence). Alai 20:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

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Also both oversized. One thing we could do would be to move the large number double-stubbed with both into {{cl|short silent film stubs}}. Otherwise, there's the option of splitting each by decade (hey, it's an oldie, but a goodie). Alai 02:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

• How about {{tl|animated-short-film}}? Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
• I didn't find any subcat-of-{{cl|short films}}-based split that'd work, though animated shorts was the closest, at 23. Of course, that could be both a considerable undercount of that category, and doesn't take animated shorts tagged with other stub types into account. Alai 05:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support {{tl|silent-short-film-stub}} for now, and I did find nearly 100 stub-sized items in {{cl|Animated short films}}, so I may go through those soon to see if the animated-short type is viable. Her Pegship (tis herself) 23:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
• Or would that be {{tl|short-silent-film-stub}}? Her Pegship (tis herself) 00:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
• That was my first thought (hence suggesting the cat be that way 'round), but I'm open to suggestions. Redirecting might also be a plan. Alai 01:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oops. I mis-named a new category {{cl|Silent short films}} as the parent permcat; should I get it changed before we do this? Her Pegship (tis herself) 20:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
• Do we necessarily want a perm-parent of this sort at all? There's significant resistance to "arbitrary intersection categories" in the permcats (a bullet we've long since bitten pretty hard for stubs, since we have more specific goals on the size front), so we should consider this on its merits, aside from the stub cat. Alai 21:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
• It does seem like a pretty natural type to have (and to expect to be viable); I'll certainly support it, if the numbers pan out (or an upmerged template if not). Alai 03:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create documentary-film-stub}}

These are oversized again; I don't see any new stub by-topic categories that would work. Two courses of action suggest themselves: firstly, we could split out the {{cl|documentary film stubs}}, which are actually the majority of them; secondly, we could split by decade. Alai 02:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support {{tl|documentary-film-stub}}. Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The recently created template as reached 62 articles. Propose speedy creation of category.Waacstats 13:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I believe this category has passed the critical mass. UEFA has 53 national associations, we have categories for 39 and 4 upmerged templates, leaving 10 'missing' templates. Propose the creation of these templates

• {{tl|Albania-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Andorra-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Armenia-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Azerbaijan-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Faroes-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Liechtenstein-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Luxembourg-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Malta-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|Moldova-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{tl|SanMarino-footy-bio-stub}}

nb {{tl|faroes-footy-bio-stub}} has already been passed for creation but added here for completeness.Waacstats 13:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

• I think you could speedy these, on the 'established pattern' clause. Definitely support completing the set. Alai 17:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

{{tl|Manitoba-road-stub}}, upmerged to :Category:Canada road stubs, is now in use on 63 articles. Requesting a standalone category per criterion S1. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 04:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy as such. Alai 05:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I created a few more templates for Japanese railway stations, which are sorted into prefectures. The following two have enough to justify their own category. Neier 12:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

:{{tl|Aichi-rail-station-stub}}/{{cl|Aichi Prefecture railway station stubs}} – (>60 if split from {{cl|Japanese railway station stubs}} and {{cl|Aichi geography stubs}})

:{{tl|Osaka-rail-station-stub}}/{{cl|Osaka Prefecture railway station stubs}} – (>70 if split from {{cl|Japanese railway station stubs}} and {{cl|Osaka geography stubs}})

• Support, suggest speedying. On a side note, we should probably rename the -geo- categories (adding "Prefecture" to each). Alai 12:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I propose the following new {{tl|plant-stub}} subcategories and stubs. --EncycloPetey 00:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

:Under {{cl|Plant stubs}}

:*{{cl|Santalales stubs}} - {{tl|Santalales-stub}}, includes about 30% of current general {{tl|plant-stub}}

:Under {{cl|Caryophyllales stubs}}

:*{{cl|Cactaceae stubs}} - {{tl|cactus-stub}}

:Under {{cl|Monocot stubs}}

:*{{cl|Araceae stubs}} - {{tl|Araceae-stub}}, for one of the largest plant families (3000 species)

:**{{cl|Anthurium stubs}} - {{tl|Anthurium-stub}}, with about 170 existing stubs for this genus

:*{{cl|Pandanales stubs}} - {{tl|Pandanales-stub}}, with about 100 current stubs for a group with about 1000 species.

:*{{cl|Zingiberales stubs}} - {{tl|Zingiberales-stub}}, with about 100 current stubs for a group with over 2000 species.

• Sound like excellent ideas to me. Given the uncontroversial nature of the large recent batches of taxon-based splits, I'd say this is probably speediable on pattern and precedent. Alai 01:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

S1 speedy as upmerged template has over 60 articles. Waacstats 10:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• Super-strong speedy support, with a strawberry on top. Alai 15:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
• Sounds simply superb. Support seconded :). Grutness...wha? 01:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Sped.Waacstats 20:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

{{tl|Illinois-railstation-stub}} is now used on 72 articles. Request speedy creation of the category. —CComMack (t–c) 05:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• Go for it. Alai 05:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
• Sped. —CComMack (t–c) 00:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create by decade}}

Oversized. Two obvious ways to split this: by DoB yields no decades over 60, but we could certainly split into 19thC and 20thC births; by party suggests itself, though the party cats are new, and seem to be in little use at present. Alai 00:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

:Hm. I'm in two minds about this - we've split by party elsewhere, but the creation/re-creation of parties and waka-jumping mean the possibility for multistubbing, whereas it's perhaps more likely that a political historian might be more guided by era (and most people don't have more than one date of birth :) Grutness...wha? 01:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::Our constitutional GodKing being one exception, though even he's been pinned down to a year. And given that only centuries are currently over threshold... Alai 01:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::For what it is worth, jumping the fence isn't that common in Scandinavian politics. On the other hand, Norway did see the emergence of several new parties over the century (same with the rest of Scandinavia). If split by party, please make sure to use names indicating both country and party name, as identical party names are/were used in both Norway and Denmark, e.g. Venstre (DK) / Venstre (N), Højre (DK) / Høyre (N), Fremskridtspartiet (DK) / Fremskrittspartiet (N), Kristelig Folkeparti (DK) / Kristelig Folkeparti (N). Translating party names isn't a great idea either, as this can produce bizzare results, given that some names refer to the positioning a party had more than a century ago. Valentinian ^{T / C} 15:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp nocreate}}

I'm trying to research up-and-coming notable bands and it would help to have a stub category to point me (and other researchers) to new bands to research and add to their article. I propose {{tl|2000s-rock-band-stub}}. --In Defense of the Artist 17:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

• We did just delete this, so this discussion may take on a familiar character... Firstly, what does "2000s" even mean in this context? We don't categorise by year of formation, years of up-and-comingness, year of breakup, or any other sort of year, so it seems fuzzy and inconvenient. Secondly, we're already splitting by genre, which though alarmingly fuzzy, seems the more useful axis of split. Accordingly, oppose. Alai 20:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

'00s drama films oversized, again, and these sub-genres now seems to be more-or-less viable, at 72 and 59, respectively. Probably also some re-sorting required. Alai 05:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create as revised}}

I propose splitting this by decade of birth. Having done a check on catscan I propose the following (sorry for the long list)

• {{Cl|Pre 19th century United States business biography stubs}}

::fed by tempaltes of the form {{tl|xxxxs-US-business-bio-stub}} (approx 50 in total)

• {{Cl|19th century United States business biography stubs}}

::fed by tempaltes of the form {{tl|18x0s-US-business-bio-stub}} (approx 320 in total)

• {{Cl|20th century United States business biography stubs}}

::{{Cl|1910s United States business biography stubs}} / {{tl|1910s-US-business-bio-stub}} (69)

::{{Cl|1920s United States business biography stubs}} / {{tl|1920s-US-business-bio-stub}} (93)

::{{Cl|1930s United States business biography stubs}} / {{tl|1930s-US-business-bio-stub}} (89)

::{{Cl|1940s United States business biography stubs}} / {{tl|1940s-US-business-bio-stub}} (73)

::{{Cl|1950s United States business biography stubs}} / {{tl|1950s-US-business-bio-stub}} (69)

::remainder by upmerged templates of the form {{tl|19x0s-US-business-bio-stub}} (approx 110 in total).

I realise this is a second axis for splitting this category, but might proove worthwhile in cutting down a category that has remained oversize for sometime. Waacstats 14:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

• You know, that just might be the very meat-cleaver for this particular Gordian knot. It's worked well enough for other people categories where we have no further meaningful means of splitting, so I reckon it'll serve for these, which as you say have just been getting bigger and bigger. Alai 01:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
• Hold on though: on the pattern of {{tl|1960s-US-hoops-bio-stub}} / {{cl|United States basketball biography, 1960s birth stubs}}, {{tl|US-novelist-1900s-stub}} / {{cl|American novelist, 20th century birth stubs}}, and numerous others, shouldn't that be {{tl|US-business-bio-1910s-stub}} / {{cl|United States business biography, 1910s birth stubs}}, etc? Alai 03:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Manually counted 58 (+/-) Lithuanian nobility related articles. Majority are under {{tl|Lithuania-bio-stub}}, few under {{tl|Lithuania-hist-stub}}.M.K. 19:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:Nice find. Support template now, and category when we have 60 stub articles. Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Create as upmerged template in the categories {{cl|Luxembourgian people stubs}} and {{cl|European nobility stubs}}. Counting manually, that's 31 are tagged with {{tl|Luxembourg-bio-stub}}, 3 with {{tl|Luxembourg-politician-stub}}, and 1 with {{tl|Sweden-bio-stub}}, in addition to at least 3 that aren't currently tagged as stubs despite clearly each being one paragraph long. Were I au fait with the nobility, I could probably find 50 or more. Bastin 18:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:Someone else has gone ahead and created the stub unilaterally: incorrectly, as it happens, but done it nonetheless. Bastin 20:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Oversized; by precedent and general obviousness, we should split into {{cl|Nord geography stubs}} and {{cl|Pas-de-Calais geography stubs}} (duh). On a side-note, it looks as if the existing cat should be renamed: the article is at Nord-Pas de Calais, which on the face of it seems to be correct. Alai 18:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

• Makes sense to me - support all. Grutness...wha? 23:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
• Trouble is, Nord is only around 100 articles, and Pas-de-Calais is still growing. I'm going to suggest re-splitting the latter by arrondissement -- this will also help deal with the problem with the template -- the region is currently fed by {{tl|PasdeCalais-geo-stub}}, which is what the department should be fed by. 05:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Specifically, {{cl|Arras arrondissement geography stubs}} is viable immediately, at 93. I'm guessing most if not all of the others would be too, but unfortunately most of the newest articles in this cat are seriously lacking in any detail, arrondissement included (out). Alai 05:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• If we made upmoerged templates for the arrondissements, how many would we be talking? Grutness...wha? 05:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Let me see if I can reduce the number of clicks required for you to acceess that information. :) Alai 06:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Ohhh too much hard mousework - can't you just tell me? :p Seven templates sounds pretty reasonable to me, if it helps split things into more manageable sizes. Grutness...wha? 23:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp nocreate}}

Request for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Plaid_Cymru Plaid Cymru stub as the vast majority of topics, including http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Plaid_Cymru_politicians politicians (more then 60 strong), are stub catagories without a more defining stub catagory. For this topic I recommend using the Plaid Cymru logo:

60px

Thank you, Drachenfyre 22:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:I hate to be a spoil sport, but I see several problems here. 1) We don't normally create stubs with a particular party as scope, and I don't think it will be a good way forward, 2) the logo may not used on stub templates, since the image is used under a fair use clause. Doing so would violate Wikipedia's fair use policy. 3) the proposed template name doesn't conform with the naming guidelines for stub templates, in other words, the space has to go. Valentinian ^{T / C} 23:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Bore da, Drachenfyre - I agree with Valentinian, individual parties rarely if ever get their own stub types (we don't have Labour stubs or Conservative stubs, both of which are slightly larger parties than PC. Also, as V points out, we can't use a fair-use icon for a stub type. As far as the name of the stub goes, note too that this wouldn't be in accordance to the stub naming guidelines (you'd need PlaidCymru-stub for that). A better solution to cover many of the articles you mention would be the Wales-politician-stub dealt with in the section above. Grutness...wha? 00:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Now has over 80 items; speedy cat? Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

• Indeed. Alai 21:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
• Didn't know you spoke Teal'c. :P Her Pegship (tis herself) 00:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Created this one and a few others in the same category and condition. Her Pegship (tis herself) 02:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I would like to propose the following templates and categories

• {{Tl|Bulgaria-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Bulgarian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Croatia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Croatian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Denmark-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Danish sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Estonia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Estonian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Latvia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Latvian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Lithuania-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Lithuanian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Serbia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Serbian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Slovakia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Slovak sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Slovenia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Slovenian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Turkey-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Turkish sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Morocco-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Moroccan sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Israel-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Israeli sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Indonesia-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Indonesian sportspeople stubs}}
• {{Tl|Uzbekistan-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Uzbekistani sportspeople stubs}}

with upmerged templates for the following

• {{Tl|Indonesia-footy-bio-stub}}
• {{Tl|Uzbekistan-footy-bio-stub}}

All appear viable according to catscan though I forgot to note the exact figures. Waacstats 20:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

three templates have reached 60 articles propose speedy creation of relevent categories. (see proposal below for third country)

• {{tl|Albania-footy-bio-stub}} - {{Cl|Albanian football biography stubs}}
• {{tl|Belarus-footy-bio-stub}} - {{Cl|Belarusian football biography stubs}}

Waacstats 12:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:Speedy sounds good. Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

separated this one from above for naming reasons.

• {{tl|Georgia-footy-bio-stub}} - {{Cl|Georgian football biography stubs}}

or - {{cl|Georgian (country) football biography stubs}} to match other Georgian categories.

Waacstats 12:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:I guess we'd better match the other Georgian category names (the solution isn't elegant but it works). Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I hope no-one has a morbid fear of spiders, as {{cl|arachnid stubs}} is at 799 articles. I accordingly propose:

• {{cl|Salticidae stubs}} 333
• {{cl|Acari stubs}} 69

following the names of the corresponding permcats. Alai 06:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

:Seems good to me, though I think that the question of other sub-categories for {{cl|arachnid stubs}}, as well as {{cl|Salticidae stubs}}, should be looked in to. Od Mishehu 10:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Oversized, and no Regierungsbezirke (former or otherwise) to use for lumping purposes, but as there's relatively big districts, and only 12 of them (plus some urbans, which tend to contribute many fewer stubs, if other German states are anything to go by), I'm betting some of them will be viable now, and others presently. Alai 15:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

In my earlier proposal to split the {{cl|2000s drama film stubs}}, I neglected to mention this possibility. Note we already have a {{cl|comedy-drama film stubs}} (which is probably why I forgot to suggest this one, confusing the two). Alai 17:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Just a little oversized; for the US analogue, we ending up splitting by date of birth -- should we nip this in the bud by doing the same here? Alai 16:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Suddenly massively oversized; obvious plan would be to split into some or all of the nine constituent provinces. Alai 16:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I propose the following new stub categories/templates

• {{Cl|Table tennis stubs}} / {{Tl|TableTennis-stub}} (15+45)

:*{{Tl|TableTennis-bio-stub}} (45)

Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:Any reason for the uppercase T? I would have guessed at {{tl|Tabletennis-bio-stub}} and {{tl|Tabletennis-stub}}. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

::I used uppercase T because some templates use camelcase, I have no problems either way.Waacstats 09:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

:::We usually only use the upper case in camelcase when it's a proper noun that takes a capital when written out (so New Zealand becomes NewZealand and Marvel Comics becomes MarvelComics, but table tennis becomes Tabletennis). Grutness...wha? 23:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

::::The canonical template should certainly be at {{tl|tabletennis-stub}}. I do have the occasional moments of anxiety about how many people who don't hang around the project pages as incessantly as some of us, but do do some stub-sorting will instantly realize that, and that it's not at {{tl|TableTennis-stub}} or {{tl|table-tennis-stub}}, so I'd be inclined to cut some slack to anyone that wanted those as redirects... Alai 00:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

::::Do we also need a {{tl|pingpong-stub}} redirect? Grutness...wha? 01:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create for current nations only}}

• {{Cl|Handball stubs}} / {{Tl|Handball-stub}}(~100)

:*{{Cl|Handball biography stubs}} / {{Tl|Handball-bio-stub}} (total 650)

::*{{Cl|German handball biography stubs}} / {{Tl|Germany-handball-bio-stub}} (105)

::*{{Tl|Romania-handball-bio-stub}} (59)

::*{{Tl|Hungary-handball-bio-stub}} (55)

::*{{Tl|Denmark-handball-bio-stub}} (46)

::*{{Tl|Spain-handball-bio-stub}} (32)

::*{{Tl|Poland-handball-bio-stub}} (31)

two other possibilities are

• {{Cl|Yugoslav handball biography stubs}} / {{Tl|Yugoslavia-handball-bio-stub}} (62)
• {{Tl|USSR-handball-bio-stubs}} (46)

Any thoughts.

Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:No problem with the splits by current nation. Not completely sure about the former nations. I've taken the liberty of fixing two typos, btw. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Oversized. A split by existing kreise, which is how they're currently templatised, would seem to work fine. (Until very recently the districts were organised differently, and before that there were three regions, but let's not worry about that.) Alai 15:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

{{cl|Ireland stubs}} is oversized, there seems to be 62 of these. Alai 00:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

:Would it be reduced by sorting some of them to the existing Gaelic-sport-stub (which seems, for some reason, to have been moved to Gaelic-games-stub)? Grutness...wha? 01:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

By way of a coda to the fish-stub-fest, this would also seem useful, with 88 articles and two existing subcats (the sharks, and the ray family). Will make the remaining fish-stubs less of a taxonomic grab-bag, though the lampreys and hagfish will will be mixed in with the bony fish. Alai 04:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The majority of the {{cl|plant disease stubs}} seem to be fungi, but a decent-sized chunk of around 250 are viruses. Suggest splitting out those, pending a more general solution. Alai 19:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The new {{tl|Lithuania-noble-stub}} has already crossed the 60 article mark. Suggest a speedy approval for a category. Valentinian ^{T / C} 15:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support speedying, especially given the earlier discussion. Alai 16:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

::Created. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I missed one country off of the proposal below

• {{tl|Portugal-sport-bio-stub}} / {{Cl|Portuguese sportspeople stubs}} / 70

following on from precedent.

Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Precedent would indeed seem to be extremely clear. Alai 14:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

::Speedy. No concerns here. Valentinian ^{T / C} 15:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create Salvadoran}}

• {{cl|Salvadoran football biography stubs}}

template has over 60 articles (football rather than soccer is used on template text so I have used it in proposed category title}

P.S when did we start splitting the NorthAm footballers between CentralAm and Caribbean?Waacstats 11:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

:Comment. No problem with a Salvadoran category, but this tree is named without the usual systematics. Compare: {{cl|Football (soccer) biography stubs}} (Main category + the supercategories for North America, Oceania and Central America) vs. {{cl|English football biography stubs}} (Europe, Asia, Africa, South America). The per-country categories for Central America and the Caribbean seem to be following the European pattern so the category name indicated above sounds sensible. Oceania is just confusing: {{cl|New Zealand soccer biography stubs}} but {{cl|Australian football biography stubs}}. Valentinian ^{T / C} 14:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, Australia isn't in Oceania as far as soccer is concerned. These all follow the permcats as far as I know. NZ is one of the few countries that uses soccer as the primary name for the sport, as there is a more prominent code here called football (Rugby Union). Grutness...wha? 23:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I'm afraid at least the Australian one doesn't: it was until recently at {{cl|Australian football (soccer) players}}, but has since been renamed to {{cl|Australian soccer players}}. I suggest we SFR the stub cat to follow suit. Alai 02:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

::::I must admit I wondered about that one - ISTR football in Australia means Aussie Rules. I'd support a name-change if proposed. Grutness...wha? 04:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create mystery-film-stub & cat; create upmerged adventure-film-stub template}}

Many a time I have created films of the adventure or mystery genre and not seen a stub tag for it and have had to put it as drama or action. mystery films alone have perhaps 300 stubs adventure - clearly far more than even this. Conedy and drama have even developed by decade split -its about time these were made to help people develop article stubs in these areas ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 15:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support {{tl|mystery-film-stub}}; since the line between action and adventure is so often undetectable (as Blofeld knows), perhaps {{tl|action-film-stub}} could cover both? Her Pegship (tis herself) 16:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
• If there's possible issues with, but also possible utility in a distinct "adventure" type, perhaps create upmerged to the existing cat for the time being? Alai 05:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
• I second Alai's suggestion for an upmerged {{tl|adventure-film-stub}}. Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The Scots are oversized again, and new stubcat du mois looks like those under {{cl|Scottish religious leaders}}, which number exactly 60. For scoping standardisation purposes, we probably want to name this as above. Alai 18:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

54 items currently qualify, and I think I can dig up a few more. This would also take on most (if not all) the items in {{cl|Rastafari stubs}}, which is up for deletion (as poorly scoped). Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• support for this, and possibly also {{tl|reggae-musician-stub}}. Grutness...wha? 07:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• Maybe as an upmerged template; I've only found 30 articles under {{cl|Reggae musicians}} that show as stub-size. Her Pegship (tis herself) 18:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Tibet currently has about 900 stubs. I am splitting into {{tl|Lhasa-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Nagqu-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Nyingchi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Ngari-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Qamdo-geo-stub}} and {{tl|Xigaze-geo-stub}} . As most people don't know which region the towns and villages are in so I'll correct from Tibet-geo-stub as I format each article with an infobox etc as I have an indication of which region they are in. To avoid confusion with actual town names and the regions categories are as follows using "Prefecture" to distinguish between the region and town {{cl|Lhasa Prefecture geography stubs}},{{cl|Nagqu Prefecture geography stubs}},{{cl|Nyingchi Prefecture geography stubs}},{{cl|Qamdo Prefecture geography stubs}}, and {{cl|Xigazê Prefecture geography stubs}} ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 21:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Strong after-the-fact support. Each prefecture is highly likely to be numerically viable, given that there's only six of them. Alai 21:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I know the usual precedure of waiting here but this needed doing particularly as I am currently working extensively on these articles and unlike many have a better knowledge of which regions thse towns and villages and places are in. Unfortunately the Internet has little info on regions in Tibet when actually within China there is far greater available ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 21:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

By manual counting there are more then 60 related articles, most of them under {{tl|Lithuania-stub}} and {{tl|euro-struct-stub}}. Request speedy create. M.K. 21:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

:Surprised am I, but a quick galnce at {{cl|Lithuania stubs}} suggests you could well be right. If there are as many as you say, then a Lithuania-struct-stub seems speediable. Grutness...wha? 04:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

::If there are any doubts, I can provide listed stub articles.M.K. 10:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

:No, as I said, it looks like there are enough. If there's any real doubt, then an upmerged template (linking to {{cl|Lithuania stubs}} and {{cl|Europe building and structure stubs}}) could be made, and once it's certain that it is on 60 stubs, a separate {{cl|Lithuania building and structure stubs}} could be made, but given the numbers that appear to be there, I'd say the LB&S stubs category would have enough articles to be made now too. Grutness...wha? 23:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

::A, I see, thanks for clarification. M.K. 23:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

• {{cl|Illinois Registered Historic Place stubs}} 100
• {{cl|New York Registered Historic Place stubs}} 81

Parent is oversized, these two are viable, and would take take of that. Alai 20:46, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• I've sped this, partly as I noticed there was outline agreement to split by state at the time of proposing the top-level stub type. Alai 00:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

I've floated the idea of this stub type over at the Riverina WPJ. It looks like a somewhat informal region to me, but the parent is oversized, and this is one of the few regions of any sort with reasonable amount of either infobox use or categorisation. (In other cases I've gone to great pains to have council area templates upmerged to officially-defined area where necessary, but in one such case that was summarily undone by a bunch of Central Coasters on what seemed to be essentially "IDONTLIKEIT" reaons, so what the heck.) Alai 20:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|sfd}}

Oops. In an effort to get Wikipedia:WikiProject Caves going, I was copying over the meta-structure for Wikipedia:WikiProject Backpacking, including {{tl|caving-stub}} and {{tl|cave-stub}} before seeing these instructions. As I don't have the power to delete articles, I can't easily undo this. Please take them out if it's a problem that I've not gone through the process and I'll come back later.Goatchurch 16:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

• I imagine there might be some objection to {{tl|cave-stub}} if that's to be used on the "actual geography"; I'm somewhat agnostic on that myself, but at the least, use it as well as a -geo-stub, not instead of, if you would. Caving-stub sounds sensibly-scoped: do you have a guestimate of how many currently-existing stub articles it'd be applicable to? (Would I be hoping against hope that this might help a little with the {{cl|geology stubs}}?) If either is 'iffy' on size, ytou might consider having them both feed into the same stub category, at least pro temps. Alai 16:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support {{tl|Caving-stub}}, it sounds quite useful and similar in form to things like {{tl|Climbing-stub}}. Oppose {{tl|Cave-stub}} for the reasons Alai alludes to - any location should primarily get a geo-stub, and it would make more sense simply to double-stub caves with their actual location and caving-stub (e.g., Nettlebed Cave would get Tasman-geo-stub and caving-stub). Though spelunking editors are likely to know details about a specific cave, locals are likely to know at least as much, so it's important not to take these articles out of their specific regional stub types. Grutness...wha? 01:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
• As I thought: you'll have to get 801 {{tl|caving-stub}}s, of which at least 60 are actual caves, before Grutness will consider a {{tl|cave-stub}}, and even then heavy sedation, hard restraints, and the exhaustion of all other conceivable alternatives may also be required. :) Alai 01:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
• I'm that predictable, am I? :) Seriously, though, it makes no sense to remove things from regional geo-stub categories for the reasons I outlined, and double-stubbing caving-stub and the regional geo-stub serves exactly the same purpose. Grutness...wha? 01:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
• As I feared, I'm having to restub cave articles daily at the moment, all of which have had their regional geo-stubs removed. I'm taking this one to SFD - I can't see any reason why the same principle used with climbing-stub can't be used here. Grutness...wha? 23:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp nocreate}}

As far as I know, I dont think there is a stub for farming related things. For example I am creating an article on the organisation MASIPAG, a farming company which helps farmers in LEDCs. It is currently a stub, and is for speedy deletion.

• MASIPAG's thrice-speedied, to be a little more current still. There's {{cl|agriculture stubs}} and the {{cl|organization stubs}} hierarchy. However, I don't think the lack of an appropriate stub tag is why it keeps being deleted, so be very sure you're appropriately addressing the right concerns before you (re-re-)re-create it. Alai 17:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• We already have {{tl|farm-stub}} for farming. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oops - correction - that currently redirects to agriculture-stub. It might be worth looking to see whether it's worth splitting out. But I agree that that is hardly likely to be the reason for the speedying of an article. Grutness...wha? 00:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create by genre}}

Due to being re-oversized, in what's been alarmingly short order. Looking at the permcatting, there's a good deal more that could be retagged into {{cl|short silent film stubs}}, but that'll soon be oversized at this rate. Looks to me like we'll either have to re-split by decade -- also not very fruitful, due to huge bulge in the 1910s -- or by genre. Probably starting with {{cl|silent drama film stubs}}, {{cl|silent comedy film stubs}}, {{cl|short silent drama film stubs}} and/or {{cl|short silent comedy film stubs}}. Alai 06:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I'd go along with the genre split, and then if they got to big, then split by Short Films. Lugnuts 15:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create as Foo-chess-bio-stub}}

I propose

• {{Tl|US-chessplayer-stub}} / {{Cl|United States Chess biography stubs}} (62 artcles)
• {{Tl|Russia-chessplayer-stub}} (45 articles)

Waacstats 11:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• I was surprised that the template of the parent's at {{tl|chessplayer-stub}}; given the category name and scope, and the general pattern, shouldn't it be {{tl|US-chess-bio-stub}}? I'm going to suggest a redirect-keeping move to that name. For the U.S. cat, should be "chess", not "Chess". That aside, support. Alai 17:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
• Yeah, Alai's right, the name of the parent is a little strange - perhaps we should look at renaming that first (though there are unlikely to be many articles on chess coaches and manager, there may be a few on chess writers). Grutness...wha? 23:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
• I'll happily change the proposal to foo-chess-bio-stub. In actual fact {{tl|Chess-bio-stub}} exists as a redirect, do we need to go to SFD to revert the redirect. Both were mentioned at the proposal with a certain Grutness opting for chessplayer-stub! Waacstats 07:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
• I think a redirect-preserving move can go though as a "there is more rejoicing in heaven" speedy. :) Alai 18:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
• Sigh. So many stubs - so little memory :) Grutness...wha? 22:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

{{cl|Lizard stubs}} has currently over 600 articles. According to the stubs which start with the letter A, about 20-25% of them are about geckoes, which would give {{cl|gecko stubs}} a reasonable starting population size. Od Mishehu 11:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support. This one seems pretty clear as a usefully distinct scope, and the permcat could certainly grow considerably further. (Certainly it's easily viable: I db-dump count 172.) Alai 02:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create squid tpl & cat; create octopus tpl upmerged}}

I propose that we split the :Category:Cephalopod stubs into two futher divisions because of how many articles there are that are either Squid or Octopi. Any one object to me creating {{tl|squid-stub}} and {{tl|octopus-stub}}? Abyssal leviathin 21:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

• Not urgently required by any means, but logical enough. I can confirm that {{cl|squid stubs}} looks numerically viable, though {{cl|octopus stubs}} looks potentially small at aboit 50. Suggest a {{tl|squid-stub}} template upmerged to {{cl|cephalopod stubs}} until those pass 60, just to be on the safe side. Alai 21:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::What do you mean "suggest," isn't that what this page is for or is their an additional procedural requirement before creating the category? Abyssal leviathin 01:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

:::No, I mean I am suggesting that. This is the page for dealing with All That Stuff, I'd just like some assurance on size, before a non-oversized stub type is split into undersized sub-cats. Alai 04:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create as sub of Polish scientists}}

Catscan [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=en&wikifam=.wikipedia.org&basecat=Polish+scientists&basedeep=3&mode=ss&size=2048&stubop=or&links=4&go=Scan&userlang=en shows] over 250 articles under 2k words in :Category:Polish historians. This should be a subcat of {{tl|Scientist-stub}} and {{tl|Poland-bio-stub}}, equivalent to {{tl|UK-scientist-stub}}.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  21:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:Presumably that's in Cat:Polish scientists :) If so, then support botht his and the historians one below. Grutness...wha? 06:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Catscan [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=en&wikifam=.wikipedia.org&basecat=Polish+historians&basedeep=2&mode=ss&size=2048&stubop=or&links=4&go=Scan&userlang=en shows] over 70 articles under 2k words in :Category:Polish historians. This should be a subcat of {{tl|historian-stub}} and {{tl|Poland-bio-stub}}, equivalent to {{tl|US-historian-stub}}.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  21:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|upmerge to cat:asia law stubs}}

This would add new daughter categories to :Category:Japanese law and :Category:Indian law (both of which have sufficient pages to fit in these new stub categories), as well as helping to clean up :Category:Law stubs which continually needs to be pruned to keep from getting too large. We already have {{tl|India-law-bio-stub}}. This would be a big help to WikiProject Law. --Eastlaw 01:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

• Certainly templates seem like a good idea, but possibly upmerged unless there are large numbers of stubs - how many stubs do you think could currently take these templates? Grutness...wha? 01:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
• I would say 20-30 articles each (minimum)...I'm not sure if you consider that sufficient. New articles may be created in the future for these categories, so I would understand if you wish to hold off on creating them. --Eastlaw 01:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
• The usual threshold for new categories is 60 existing stubs. Perhaps upmerged templates for now - that way it's easier to monitor when categories would have enough articles. If we find there are already 60, it would be easy to speedy the category creation. Grutness...wha? 02:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
• We certainly do need some sort of plan to deal with {{cl|law stubs}}, which has been oversized for some time. OTOH, these do look possibly a little small, if permcatting of the existing law-stubs is anything to go by. What about upmerging to a "regional" container category (to wit, Asia)? Alai 03:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp nocreate}}

Oversized, but not instantly obviously how to subdivide. I'm open to suggestions. Alai 18:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

• How about by component: {{cl|Computer printer stubs}}, {{cl|Computer CPU stubs}}, {{cl|Scanner stubs}}, etc? Her Pegship (tis herself) 18:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• I like the idea for data layout as it is not overwhelming to reader. Apageor2 13:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
• I was going to suggest a {{cl|computer storage stubs}}... but I was a little nonplussed to find that that already exists! That should logically be a subcat of the hardware type, and I think existing double-stubbing eliminating, which together with some re-sorting should probably deal with the parent (at least as regards bashing it somewhat down below 800, which is as much as I'm hoping for the moment). Alai 21:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Believe it or not, these are poking onto their firth page now. The following look to be viable:

• {{cl|St. Louis Cardinals season stubs}} 122
• {{cl|Oakland Athletics season stubs}} 106
• {{cl|Baltimore Orioles season stubs}} 106
• {{cl|Boston Red Sox season stubs}} 100

Or alternatively, we could try to do it by decade (don't immediately have numbers on that). Alai 06:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

:Support Good idea for split. The only problem I can see is that the New York Yankees used to be called the Baltimore Orieles as well, but using current franchise names is how the permcats are sorted so I don't see any reason to do different. Waacstats 07:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

::Also doesn't seem to be a problem we'll have for a while, since there's only 12 Yankee season stubs at the moment. OTOH, bearing in mind how fast the others have grown... Alai 15:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp other}}

In {{cl|Hylidae stubs}}, there are currently almost 800 articles. Of these, 83 clearly belong to the genus Dendropsophus. I propose making this a seperate stub category. Od Mishehu 12:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Said almost-800 stubs represent essentially the whole family, having been bot-created (and bot-stub-sorted) in batch. If anything, it ought to shrink from here (if any of them actually do get expanded, or deleted as pointlessly obscure) so I wouldn't regard it as a case that's in any way urgent to re-split. OTOH, if there's a posse of Dendropsophus specialists out there that this would be helpful to... Alai 19:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp other}}

For all subjects or persons related to libertarianism, and analogous to {{cl|Liberalism stubs}}, {{cl|Anarchism stubs}}, and {{cl|Fascism stubs}}. CatScan gives 115 articles in {{cl|Libertarianism}} shorter than 1500 bytes (of whom, 55 are libertarians). Bastin 23:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• That's a bit sketchy as a size count, as the length threshold you're using is about triple what I'd consider "safe". Any idea how many are actually already tagged as stubs? OTOH, regardless of size, I strongly suspect at least an upmerged template would make a lot of sense. (I'm somewhat amazed there's no wikiproject, and a lot more stubs... Perhaps because it'd be redundant, and they're all post-stubs by now?) Alai 23:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

:I'm slightly negative towards this one, but that feeling is based solely of having seen several American editors trying to add the "Libertarian" tag to a lot of European material solely concerning Liberalism. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

::In the U.S. context though, liberal has come to be seen as a replacement for social democrat, so it's not surprising that European liberalism looks more like libertarianism than anything else to persons with a purely North American POV, since libertarianism is little more than a variant of classical liberalism. Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Whereas in most of the rest of the world, it means quite the opposite. It's a bit like the difference in the word "democratic" between the US and the Korean people's Democratic Republic, for instance - trying to group those different meanings into one stub type is a stretch. Grutness...wha? 23:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

:The permcat structure is a bit of a mess (and so perhaps isn't the best guide), with {{cl|classical liberalism}} as both a supercat of {{cl|libertarianism}}, and a subcat of the extraordinarily-named {{cl|libertarianism by genre}} (which looks like CFD/CFR-fodder to me). But some sort of fairly close relationship is fairly clear. Perhaps we could smoosh them together as {{cl|classical liberalism and libertarianism stubs}}, fed from distinctly-worded templates? Alai 17:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

::Libertarianism is not a sub-strand of classical liberalism, as the former encompasses both minarchism (of which classical liberalism is an example) and anarchism.

::{{cl|Libertarianism by genre}} is named after the similarly titled {{cl|Anarchism by genre}}. Even as the creator of that category, I'm not happy with the name, but I assumed it as a precedent. Bastin 22:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I'm aware of that argument, but the permcat structure doesn't exactly support it, and I'm pretty sure that there would be less than general agreement among editors to that effect. Hence my suggestion to explicitly include both, to avoid the whole circularity and involution. I'd equally argue in favour of the latter category: so far as I know, it doesn't have genres, either. What to rename them to, I dunno. Alai 23:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp other}}

{{cl|Snake stubs}} is getting too big, and a lot of the articles there seem to be about Colubrid snakes. Od Mishehu 15:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Not that big, only 500-odd. If this is to be split, I'd prefer to avoid the Colubridae family as being strongly indicated to be polyphyletic. Alai 19:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

:As are lizards, dinosaurs and order Artiodactyla, each of which has their own stub type. Od Mishehu 21:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

::None of which are "dumping grounds", however. The first is reasonable by way of the utility of common names, the other two are only polyphyletic with respect to a single sub-taxon, which is therefore just a matter of sub-categorisation. Even besides which, we'd be left with "other stuff exists" vs. "not needed", "extremely broad", and "other splits are possible instead". Alai 23:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

:On a related subject, if (and it's a big if) {{cl|Snake stubs}} is getting too big, then so is {{cl|Dinosaur stubs}} - also in the 500-600 region. Something like a sauropod-stub, or at the very list saurischia-stub and ornithschia-stub, may well be looming on the horizon. Grutness...wha? 00:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

::While those are somewhat-related taxons, and indeed they're extremely similar in size, this sounds to me like it's in imminent danger of either turning into a discussion on whether to split all 430+ stub categories with 530-ish articles and up, or of how to organise taxon-based stub types in general. I'd recommend splitting either (or both) of those out into separate discussions, either on this page or otherwise. Alai 00:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

[moved from talk page - Her Pegship (tis herself) 22:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)]

:Category:Crustacean stubs is getting rather large at over 600 articles, and I have decided to create new stub templates for crustaceans and split the category. Here are the previews for the proposed templates:

Template:Crustacean-stub

Template:Copepod-stub

Template:Amphipoda-stub

See User talk:Stemonitis for more information. --Crustaceanguy 21:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Crustacean sub-stubs were proposed and approved back in August, to wit:

:{{cl|Decapoda stubs}}

:{{cl|Amphipoda stubs}}

:{{cl|Calanoida stubs}}

:{{cl|Isopoda stubs}}

:Would these be of any use? I have taken the liberty of editing the amphipoda entry to reflect the previously approved wording. Cheers, Her Pegship (tis herself) 22:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

::Comment - please don't just copy templates down here like that - it puts this page into various stub categories where it doesn't belong! I've just removed this page from {{cl|Crustacean stubs}}. As Peg says, other, related categories have already been approved - it might be more sensible to start with them first and see whether further splits are needed after that's done. Grutness...wha? 00:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

:The copepods would certainly be viable (171 articles at last db dump). IIRC I omitted Copepoda as it's an infraorder, and I've been by and large favouring splits at the "major" taxons (typically orders and families). But if people would find that one especially useful... Alai 02:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

{{tl|Madeira-geo-stub}} has reached 60 articles, but I note that the parent category is for {{cl|Madeira Islands}} (to distinguiosh from Madeira, the largest island in the group). That means the category be at {{cl|Madeira Islands geography stubs}}. BUT, the stub type is for the autonomous region of Madeira, and the main article is also at Madeira. I'm taking the permcat to CFD... the stubcat may need to wait until that's dealt with. Grutness...wha? 01:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• I think you've made a compelling argument both for a) creation and un-upmerging, and b) not speedying. (Unless you want to end up doing a speedying creation followed by a slow rename, of course...) Alai 02:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
• I created {{cl|Autonomous Region of Madeira}} per the inconclusive discussion at cfd; does that help at all? Her Pegship (tis herself) 15:52, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support {{cl|Madeira geography stubs}}, or {{cl|Autonomous Region of Madeira geography stubs}}, whichever your Grutness can live with. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The type {{cl|biochemistry stubs}} just gets bigger and bigger; it looks like {{cl|lipid stubs}} and {{cl|carbohydrate stubs}} are now viable, but will only help a bit. Anyone else have any bright ideas? Alai 20:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

The Canadian material is being split off by province but a few first-level entities are still missing. All names are chosen to match with the -geo templates:

• {{tl|NorthwestTerritories-politician-stub}}
• {{tl|Nunavut-politician-stub}}
• {{tl|Yukon-politician-stub}}

I'm not sure how big the current need is for the latter two, but somebody seems to be working systematically through the NWT material, and we might as well create all three in one go. Upmerged templates, categories when 60. Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Makes a lot of sense. BTW, there seems to be quite a lot of politicians, politics-related bios, activists, etc, in the Canada-bio-stubs, if someone wants to apply the proverbial fine-toothed comb. Alai 23:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

• {{cl|European Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 97
• {{cl|United States Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 94
• {{cl|African Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 91
• {{cl|Mexican Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 86
• {{cl|Asian Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 78
• {{cl|Oceanian Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 73
• {{cl|Canadian Roman Catholic diocese stubs}} 62

Parent oversized, continental cats to be populated from country templates. Alai 05:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Oversized again, possible hand-sorting to 'titles' might help a little. Most of these, however, are characters. We could certainly populate a {{cl|Marvel Comics character stubs}} -- in fact, there'd be more than 600, immediately. Beyond that, there's permcats for supervillains, superheroes, supporting characters, mutants, characters with superhuman strength, deities and immortals, each of which would be viable as a stub type. Alai 04:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

:The character one sounds a definite starter. As to the subtypes like supervillains, though, ISTR there was a mass deletion of permcats of that type recently. Grutness...wha? 04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

::Less recently than the last time I brought up this up, though, so those ones don't seem to be going anyplace in any great hurry. Alai 12:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

:::There is a stub type for supervillains. Support this one to start sorting the rest. Her Pegship (tis herself) 22:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

Hi all. We now, fianlly, have geo-stubs at the national level or below to cover just about everywhere on the planet, even if only (in about a dozen cases) as redirects to other templates. There are just six areas left, mainly for uninhabited/uninhabitable lumps of rock. The question is - what to do with these last areas? Do they get their own redirects or templates, upmerged into more obvious categories, or do we ignore them and pray that they never get stubs?

The six nominees remaining places are:

1. U.S. Unincorporated Territories in the Pacific. A group of uninhabited islands currently using both US-geo-stub and Oceania-geo-stub.
2. :Suggested solution? {{tl|US-Pacific-geo-stub}}, upmerged to the two current categories. Another possible option would be to amalgamate it with the Navassa Island (see below) as a stub for all the United States Minor Outlying Islands (US-unincorporated-geo-stub?), though this might cause category problems.
3. Navassa Island. A lump of rock in the Caribbean, which is a US unincorporated territory. Currently uses US-geo-stub and Caribbean-geo-stub.
4. :Suggested solution? {{tl|NavassaIsland-geo-stub}}, upmerged to the two current categories. Another possible option would be to amalgamate it with the US Pacific unincorporated territories (see below) as a stub for all the United States Minor Outlying Islands (US-unincorporated-geo-stub?), though this might cause category problems.
5. French Southern and Antarctic Territories. Mainly just Kerguelen plus a handful of rocks. Currently uses Outremer-geo-stub.
6. :Suggested solution? Its own template, feeding into the Subantarctic Islands and French Non-Metropolitan categories. The two problems are possible ungainly template names, and the likelihood that it will be used for claims currently in abeyance due to the Antarctic treaty (other similar areas all used antarctica-geo-stub).
7. Scattered islands in the Indian Ocean. A handful of French uninhabited rocks. Currently uses Outremer-geo-stub.
8. :Suggested solution? Its own template, feeding into theFrench Non-Metropolitan category. The main problem here is the ungainly template name.
9. Plazas de soberanía. Two Spanish cities on the Moroccan coast, plus a handful of rocks in the Mediterranean. Currently uses Spain-geo-stub and AfricaN-geo-stub.
10. :Suggested solution? Its own template, possibly a redirect to Spain-geo-stub. Potential problems? This would remove any stubs from North Africa, and the offshore rocks are disputed with Morocco.
11. Western Sahara. Currently uses AfricaN-geo-stub and WesternSahara-stub.
12. :Suggested solution? Its own template would be useful, as this is the only area of mainland Africa which doesn't have its own template, and no country-level template is really currently suitable. But this is, of course, a disputed territory, albeit one recognised as sovereign by several countries.

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome for all of these. Currently only three of them actually have any stubs that I know of, but in the case of Western Sahara there are a couple of dozen - more than enough for an upmerged template to be a sensible idea. Grutness...wha? 06:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::I realize that trying to make sense of the terms applied to U.S. territories takes effort for the uninitiated, but US-unincorporated-geo-stub isn't a good idea for waht yuo are looking for. The unincorporated territories include not only most of those uninhabited rocks in the Pacific and Caribbean but also Guam, the Northern Marianas, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. However, it wouldn't include Palmyra Atoll which while uninhabited, and not part of the fifty States or D.C. is considered incorporated territory.

::Going with the current permcats would give us {{tl|US-insular-geo-stub}} / {{cl|Insular areas of the United States geography stubs}} as one possibility, as the insular areas include everything not part of the fifty States or D.C. Another possibility would be {{tl|US-Oceania-geo-stub}} and {{tl|US-Caribbean-geo-stub}}. Those would match the stub categories nicely, if not the permacats. A third if you don't want the geo stubs for the inhabited territories to intersect with the new template would be to use {{tl|US-unihabited-geo-stub}} and have it point to {{cl|Oceania geography stubs}} for now. While Navassa Island is in the Caribbean, neither it nor the other articles in {{cl|Navassa Island}} are stubs, and as an uninhabited location, it is unlikely to obtain any stubs. Besides, given the territorial dispute with Haiti, we can always mark any such stubs with {{tl|Haiti-geo-stub}} as well. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Ooookay. So here's what I propose to make, unless there are any objections:

• {{tl|US-minorisland-stub}} for the United States Minor Outlying Islands, doublestubbing with Oceania or Caribbean where necessary. It's unlikely there'll be more than a handful of stubs in total, but even uninhabited places like Navassa have capes and headlands that might get articles;
• {{tl|France-AustraleAntarctique-geo-stub}} for the French Southern and Antarctic Territories;
• {{tl|France-IndianOcean-stub}} for the Scattered islands in the Indian Ocean;
• {{tl|Plazadesoberanía-geo-stub}} for the Plazas de soberanía;

and (deep breath)

• {{tl|WesternSahara-geo-stub}}.

I'm not at all happy with the names, though - any better suggestions would be more than welcome. Grutness...wha? 03:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create as revised}}

Request for a Politics of Wales stub as the vast majority of articals of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_parties_in_Wales Welsh politicians, political topics, political parties, political party topics (including sub categories), are mostly stubs. I stopped counting after a hundred, and that is with Plaid Cymru alone, so estimate that there are more for the other topics in Welsh politics too. I would recommend using the Welsh flag for the image here. Thank you, Drachenfyre 22:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:Politics stubs aren't divided by sub-national division in other cases. Instead, they are divided into areas, primarily politicians, political parties, elections, and constituencies. Propose instead:

:* {{tl|Wales-politician-stub}} (analogy to {{tl|Scotland-politician-stub}}), feeding into {{cl|Welsh politician stubs}}.

:* {{tl|Wales-constituency-stub}} (analogy to {{tl|Scotland-constituency-stub}}), upmerged into {{cl|United Kingdom constituency stubs}}.

:That sorts out the vast majority of stubs related to Welsh politics. Bastin 23:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'll second Bastin's suggestion. Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp top|create upmerged templates}}

There is a stub for Psychologists {{tl|psychologist-stub}} I would like to differentiate {{tl|psychoanalysts-stub}} and {{tl|psychiatrists-stub}}. There are already many stub articles in :Category:Psychiatrists by nationality and :Category:Psychoanalysts that could be properly categorized with the addition of these two stubs.Tstrobaugh 18:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

• Sounds a reasonable idea, if there are enough stubs - any idea of the numbers? BTW, the names of the templates shouldn't be plurals - {{tl|psychoanalyst-stub}} and {{tl|psychiatrist-stub}} would be the correct forms. Grutness...wha? 00:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:In :Category:Psychiatrists by nationality there would be hundreds and the stub would also be available for future use. I'm a member of {{tl|WikiProject Psychology}} and I intend to add more psychoanalysts particularly in Object relations theory. I just added James F. Masterson and will add at least five more soon. But currently in :Category:Psychoanalysts I would say there are only about 10 that could be categorized as stubs. Just for clarification, Psychiatrists are MD's and Psychologists are PHd's whereas Psychoanalysts can come from either field.Tstrobaugh 14:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::I get the distinction, but the question is if there's rather few of them at present, whether splitting them does more harm than good for their prospects of expansion. If you create an upmerged template (only), it'll allow tagging of them now (and as they're created), without splitting them off to languish in a teeny stub category -- but the latter can readily be created once there's something-like-60. Alai 15:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support an upmerged template (singular form, as G. says) for clarity at worst, a full-scale separate type if there's the numbers. Alai 01:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

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{{sfp create}}

• {{cl|2000s death metal album stubs}} 89
• {{cl|2000s metalcore album stubs}} 72
• {{cl|2000s alternative metal album stubs}} 61

Parent's at exactly 800; I might start with just one of the above, given the likely overlap. Anyone have a favourite? Alai 22:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

• At the risk of poking a sore point, this comes close on talking of nixing the 2000s rock band stub that's been proposed... we need to sort out some overall rationale for this sort of thing, by the looks of it. I realise the case is a little different, given the numbers of stubs, but still... Grutness...wha? 09:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
• How about "needed, aligned to permcats and existing splits, and tolerably well-defined", as implied in my points on that proposal? Alai 13:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

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