Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Potential navbox deletion proposals

I was recently tasked as part of my disclosed paid editor duties with Arizona State University to overhaul the alumni list. I found it to contain many, many omissions—somewhere on the order of 300 notable football players alone were missing (and that is the largest athletics-side piece left of the overhaul at User:Melted Brie/Alumni).

However, I'm running into an issue for which I cannot find any guidance in any college sports project. It is increasingly common now, thanks to the transfer portal and changed eligibility requirements, for college athletes to split their eligibility among two or more schools. In perusing publications from ASU's own athletic department, e.g. a list of Sun Devils competing in the NFL, players that had played at ASU but transferred to and finished their careers at other institutions (e.g. Jayden Daniels, Ricky Pearsall) were not listed, though players in the opposite situation (started at another school and transferred to ASU) were. I would expect people who played at ASU—even if they later finished their career elsewhere—to be listed, even if official sports information documents don't claim them as alumni. This is something I expect to see in more sports, given that the list expansion has turned up other notable transfers out of ASU like Hubert Kós and Joson Sanon.

Is there any guidance or point of view that can assist with this, or a standard of when players should and shouldn't be classified for list purposes? Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 03:28, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:Sammi, you're referring to List of Arizona State University alumni, correct? Those sorts of lists are outside of the scope of this project and that of other college sports projects as well. They should probably fall under the purview of Wikipedia:WikiProject Higher education. Nonetheless, I think that ASU alumni list should include athletes (and others) who attended ASU before transferring to another college. You'll note that in the case of Jayden Daniels, Arizona State is listed in the college field of the infobox, and the article includes :Category:Arizona State Sun Devils football players, which is a grandchild of :Category:University of Arizona alumni. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:50, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

::@Jweiss11, yes. I appreciate the comment. (Also, did you do that ASU/UA mixup deliberately? I have found some startlingly bad mixed-up links in this process as well as newspaper articles that say ASU grads went to "Phoenix State University" and "University of Arizona, Tempe". Nuh-uhhhh.) Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 07:12, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:::No, that was an accident! I meant to say that :Category:Arizona State Sun Devils football players is a grandchild of :Category:Arizona State University alumni. Things do sometimes get a little confusing when researching the 1800s and early 1900s. The early names for a lot of state colleges get messy, e.g. the University of Missouri was called "Missouri State University", which is not Missouri State University. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:46, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:My dictionary shows alumni as "a graduate or former student of a particular school, college, or university". So it seems it's subject to the list's selection criteria.—Bagumba (talk) 07:59, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Jim Moran has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:54, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

{{u|Dissident93}} made some edits to Template:CFB Yearly Record Subhead and Template:CFB Yearly Record End yesterday that removed gray background coloring for heading and total rows in the college football head coaching record tables. This has something do with rendering in light-on-dark color scheme ("dark mode") it seems. The gray background color is still present in the analogous templates for college basketball head coaching record tables. Doggie Julian#Head coaching record is a good example where you can compare the two. I certainly think the tables look better with the gray shading. Dissident93, can you explain what the problem was with the "dark mode"? Is there a way we could keep the gray shading by default, but change things as needed for dark mode? I know you also have some more general concerns about the layout of these tables. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:I thought I was going crazy, my eyes are not fond of these all-white record tables. Thetreesarespeakingtome (talk) 20:14, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:It looks better with the gray. It's a little easier to distinguish between tenures when the whole table isn't white. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:28, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

There is a discussion occurring at the CBB wikiproject that raises the same question for CFB.

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College basketball#Are redshirts who didn't play considered national champions?

PK-WIKI (talk) 02:32, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

:From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&prefix=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+College+football%2F&search=Redshirt+champion&ns0=1&searchToken=2r2555weuongpszwzxnvdzdpz searching "redshirt champion" in the archives], it looks like related issues have been discussed in this college football project twice before:

:*WT:WikiProject College football/Archive 10#Redshirts on championship team templates

:*WT:WikiProject College football/Archive 13#Redshirts on Champions' navbox?

:Left guide (talk) 06:01, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

:As it relates to college football, [https://www.buckeyerosters.com/player/t-j-downing/ T.J. Downing] redshirted (zero games played) on the 2002 Ohio State Buckeyes football team that won the 2003 Fiesta Bowl national championship game. He then recorded appearances in 2003 and 2004 before becoming a starter in 2005.

:In 2006 The Marion Star, a reliable third-party secondary source, stated that Downing [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-marion-star-tj-downing-national-ch/170017612/ {{tpq|"could trump that by winning a national championship ring to match the one he received as a redshirt freshman in 2002."}}]

:Circa 2011, Ohio State came under investigation for Tattoogate. One of the [https://media.cleveland.com/metro/other/cicero-complaint.pdf pieces of evidence cited in the court records] of the case was "T.J. Downing's National Championship ring" that had been traded for NCAA-violating tattoos.

:This [https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2013/6/7/4406590/ohio-state-terrelle-pryor-tattoo-for-memorabilia-scandal-auction-pictures same ring was later sold on eBay], clearly marked "DOWNING" and engraved with the score of the 2003 Fiesta Bowl.

:T.J. Downing was a redshirt for this season and did not record any playtime but did receive a national championship ring. PK-WIKI (talk) 19:53, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

The "bowl games" parameter at {{tl|Infobox college football player}} (example usage Kyren Lacy) seems like clutter that fails to impart relatively meaningful information unique to that individual player; it's far more of a team accomplishment than a player accomplishment. To me, it would be like if NFL players had a "playoff finishes" parameter showing the result of their final playoff game each year they appeared. I'm inclined to remove it, but would be curious as to what others think first. I checked the talk and archives of both this project and the template, and couldn't find prior discussions about this. Left guide (talk) 06:50, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

• Support. I agree with you, but bowl games have been in player infoboxes for many years. Accordingly, we will need a good consensus here to implement such a change. Cbl62 (talk) 18:14, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

:: To clarify, merely being on a team that plays in a bowl game isn't infbox worthy, but something like a Rose Bowl MVP can remain in the highlights. Cbl62 (talk) 19:39, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was implied, but thanks for clarifying. :) Left guide (talk) 20:10, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

• It's been a week with no opposition expressed, so the parameter has been removed. Left guide (talk) 07:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
• Agree here. Merely playing in a bowl game doesn't need to be listed in a player infobox. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg You are invited to join the discussion at :Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Are 'Sports-Reference.com' websites reliable sources for redshirt seasons and awards?. PK-WIKI (talk) 17:54, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

1899 Sewanee was demoted from GA to C. A part of me understands, but another part finds it hard to add anything more. What can be done to improve the article? The team deserves a proper article. Also, what is Fuzzy trying to say about Suter? I think that's the only thing hurting the article. If that were clarified, I'd be more bitter about the demotion. Any help appreciated. One thing to add might be the film Unrivaled suggests the reason for Sewanee's road trip was the disputed baseball title with Texas. Cake (talk) 04:28, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{yo|MisterCake}} I assume this post refers to the article 1899 Sewanee Tigers football team. Have the concerns raised at Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/1899 Sewanee Tigers football team/1 been addressed yet? If not, that would probably be a good first step. Aside from that, expanding the article with reliable sources wouldn't hurt. If that's something you're interested in taking on, some of the best sources I found in a cursory Google search are [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/sports/sewanee-tigers-alabama-oklahoma.html this New York Times piece], a [https://www.pbs.org/video/unrivaled-sewanee-1899-1vp1hk/ PBS documentary], and a [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ninety_Nine_Iron/FB7zAwAAQBAJ?hl=en University of Alabama Press book]. I hope this reply is helpful. Left guide (talk) 07:55, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:: The article includes some unsourced assertions that appear dubious. For example, it says without sourcing that Sewanee played "on rocks for a gridiron on their home field." While they may have played on a dirt field with some rocks tossed in here and there, it seems highly unlikely that they played "on rocks for a gridiron." I will review in greater detail and leave comments on the article's talk page. Cbl62 (talk) 15:30, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Skip Holtz has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:13, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

My work on GLIAC decade articles for the 2010s is making good progress. E.g., Ferris State, Grand Valley, Hillsdale, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood, Saginaw Valley, Wayne State. I would like to start such articles for the 2020s but first want to see if can form a consensus for those. Here are a couple options:

• Option 1. Start the article with a title covering only the current years. E.g., Grand Valley State Lakers football, 2020–2025. Then move the article at the end of each year to include the following season. Thus, in December 2005, we would move the article to encompass 2026. E.g., Grand Valley State Lakers football, 2020–2026.
• Option 2. Start the article with a title covering the full decade. E.g., Grand Valley State Lakers football, 2020–2029. Then just add each new season as it unfolds.

Both options are fine with me, though I have a slight preference for Option 1, so as to avoid "crystal ball" or "too soon" criticisms. I'd like to see if we can reach consensus before creating any such articles. Cbl62 (talk) 04:31, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

: The best option is a third one, already in use at Dakota State Trojans football, 2020–present. With "present", the article doesn't have to be renamed every year. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:38, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you. That works for me. We would then move such articles to a "2020–2029" nomenclature in December 1928. "Siri, set a reminder for December 2028." (o Cbl62 (talk)

::: Yes, once the decade is over, or we get to 2029, we rename the article accordingly. Until then, Siri! Jweiss11 (talk) 16:53, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

::Agree with the "present" option; spares a great deal of unnecessary editorial work down the road. Where possible, it's better to build things to last for the long haul rather than create a condition which requires regular maintenance. Left guide (talk) 07:41, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

I am notifying editors of this project that an IP-hopping vandal {{IPuser|2601:8C:982:1A40:C572:AC5D:84C9:14CC/32}} has been disrupting various college football team pages for about 2 days (also disrupted NHL-related pages, which I primarily edit so I ended up here after inspecting the IPs). It changes the number of national/conference/division titles in infoboxes. I am not a participant of college football-related pages so I cannot confirm the changes to conference and division titles, but I can clearly see the number of national titles by team at College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS#National championship claims. I have already reverted the changes 3–4 times, but the IP hopper is coming back and changing back to incorrect numbers. – sbaio 12:51, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Is there a good sources out there for award winners? The award winners section of Missouri Tigers football was tagged as having no citations (which is correct, there aren't any citations there) and I was just wondering if this project has a good source for this stuff. If not, I'll go through and find sources, just wanted to check here first. Esb5415 (talk) (C) 13:57, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{yo|Esb5415}} Did you try checking the reference sections of the linked award articles themselves? Some of them appear to have several sources (i.e. John Mackey Award#References and Burlsworth Trophy#References). Left guide (talk) 10:15, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

The deletion rationale given was:

• {{tq|"Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG."}}

We have a series of 27 articles about All-South Independent football teams:

• :Category:All-South Independent football teams

All of these articles are similar to the 1969 All-South Independent football team article and each cites a newspaper article.

Also see this 2024 conversation about these articles:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive 28#All-South independent football teams

We should probably either keep this article or delete all 27. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 00:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Pop Warner has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 12:55, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

The following deletion discussion may be of interest to project participants. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:09, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

There's a split proposal/discussion at WT:NFL#Split proposal for Field goal that involves some college football material. You are invited to join there. Left guide (talk) 21:51, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Is there any opposition to creating more award categories like :Category:Fred Biletnikoff Award winners and :Category:Chuck Bednarik Award winners to match :Category:Heisman Trophy winners and :Category:Walter Payton Award winners? I would usually just WP:DOIT but they involve a large number of pages. My rational is that if a standalone article and navbox already exist for them, then a matching category should as well. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:54, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Not sure whether there was discussion of this before implementation, but there's been a change this year of putting each captain's name on a separate line in the season article infobox. The impact is to make our already-long infoboxes even longer. The 1972 Iowa Hawkeyes football team infobox is an example of this. With two or three captains, the information previously displayed on one or two lines (depending on screen width), but now it spreads the same information over three separate lines. I'm not seeing the benefit of this change. Cbl62 (talk) 20:32, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:It can be a bit much sometimes (see 2019 Anna Maria Amcats football team with seven) Thetreesarespeakingtome (talk) 20:38, 20 May 2025 (UTC)