Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#Request for Comment on Proposal to Merge Wikiprojects

I found this error [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Teapot&diff=prev&oldid=1194437991] where the WikiProjectBanner set was moved from the top of the talk page to the middle of some else's comment and the WikiProjectBannerShell was put there in the middle of the talk page by {{user|cewbot}}. If it happened once, I would hazard that it happened several times. I have already informed the operator of Crewbot, {{user|Kanashimi}}.

I expect that some of these page will now have multiple sets of project banners, as the old ones would appear where no one would expect it, and the talk pages appears to have no project banners at all, so editors may place a new set of banners at the top of those talk pages.

-- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 18:30, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:Ok looks like we need to check the bots edits then see if we can correct them. Sheriff U3 19:24, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for reporting. It is same issue as Module talk:WikiProject banner#Misplaced banners by bot. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:25, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for the report. In January 2024, cewbot performed a problematic operation. Although most of the bugs have been fixed, there are still some remaining. Module talk:WikiProject banner#Misplaced banners by bot and many previous discussions have mentioned this problem. Modifying {{tl|WPBS}} may detect these problems, but it is still under review. Kanashimi (talk) 00:14, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

:Who? Mary Joy 20 Marcial (talk) 15:26, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Has Wikipedia:WikiProject Data Visualization, created yesterday, ever been submitted as a formal proposal, or even discussed here? I've not been able to locate any obvious prior discussion of the project anywhere in Wikipedia talk space etc, though possibly I've missed something. At minimum, it would seem to me that Wikipedia:Graphics Lab should have been informed of the proposal, given that there appears to be a substantive overlap in scope. AndyTheGrump (talk) 10:40, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Hello, here I'm proposing a new WikiProject about datagraphics. I previously proposed it on a meta talk page and just went ahead and created it: Wikipedia:WikiProject Data Visualization.

The goal is to keep datagraphics up-to-date and to create and add datagraphics. Wikipedia:WikiProject Statistics is about Wikipedia articles on the subject.

I did not know that there is a place to propose a WikiProject until a user – who around a day ago called me a {{tq|tendentious little shit}} – pointed out that I had not proposed this WikiProject before creating the draft-stage project page (sorry about that, it wasn't intentional since I didn't know of this page here).

Information on things the WikiProject will be about can be found on the draft-stage WikiProject page. Please first see that page. I created various tools and resources relating to datagraphics on Commons earlier.

Wikipedia:Graphics Lab describes itself like so {{tq|The Graphics Lab helps improve all graphical content stored on Wikimedia Commons and the English Wikipedia.}} so that is not about datagraphics in particular and it doesn't seem to be about updating, creating, adding, and maintaining datagraphics but about editing graphics. I'll notify it and WikiProject Statistics.

I think the project will still be active in 5 years because datagraphics are kind of a timeless thing and with things like the possibly upcoming OWID Gadget and datagraphics continuously becoming outdated, there is lots of work to do.

Users that I believe may be interested in joining: {{ping|Theklan|John Cummings|Timeshifter|Doc James|RCraig09|Sleyece|Zache|Bikesrcool|Ozzie10aaaa|Jason.nlw}}. Please comment if you're interested in joining this WikiProject. Prototyperspective (talk) 10:52, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:Could you please provide a link to the discussion on Meta. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:09, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::Listen, I'm no criminal for creating a new WikiProject or not knowing about this page. The proposal is here and the other comment received no replies. Note: the user has moved this talk page thread into his thread, created shortly before mine which is fine but please know that I started writing this before the other thread existed so I didn't see that thread. Now, let's please focus on the proposed new WikiProject. Prototyperspective (talk) 11:13, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:::I posted an entirely reasonable request that you provide a link to a discussion you said took place. If you are serious about this proposal (which in my opinion has considerable merit, though I have some reservations) I suggest you stay on topic. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:21, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::::I'll link it later or if any other user would also like to see the backstory of how the idea for the WikiProject took shape. I'll also link at least at least one other related discussion that does not use the term WikiProject but is essentially also proposing this or sth like it (also without any replies). It's not well-written and both are somewhat more specific so I think it's better if people read the WikiProject page and this proposal for info on what the project will be about than some distracting background info that's not the actual proposal. Not everything I do or start is required to get your approval and yes your request is reasonable. I am serious about this proposal and am staying ontopic. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:07, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::The comment is at m:Talk:OWID Gadget#Data visualizations may have a hard time on Wikipedia. Finding this out required maybe 30 seconds in Special:Contribs. WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:22, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes, especially the second comment of mine since at first it was just something I was thinking of alongside and more of a note. The second place is c:Commons:Village pump#Updating needed ––– outdated files. Again, both are not as broad and informative as the draft page above. Prototyperspective (talk) 14:26, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:* Early-draft-stage Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Resources/Charts discussed here with interest from {{ping|Joe Roe|Isochrone|WhatamIdoing}} is another related initiative. What it seems to be about is something that I think would be one of many things the proposed WikiProject could do. They could link to each other and that task force could also opt to become part of this WikiProject but that's entirely up to them. If that's where people collaborate on the new Charts extension, then this wouldn't fall within the scope of this WikiProject I guess.

:Prototyperspective (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::A WikiProject is a group of people. If you don't have a group of people, then you don't have a WikiProject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Did I say something else? With WikiProject I'm referring to the proposed WikiProject – if it's necessary to say "this proposed WikiProject" instead of {{tq|this WikiProject}} I can do so. The subject is "Proposing a new WikiProject Data Visualization". Prototyperspective (talk) 14:28, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Have you already recruited anyone? I see that you've pinged people, of course, but will they be surprised when they see this discussion, or have you already talked to them about it? WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:37, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::I made the two threads above but these did not get a reply, I did not know of this page which as said in the post is why I created the draft page before proposing it here. As I wrote those are {{tq|Users that I believe may be interested in joining}} and while I have talked with some of them about datagraphics-related things before and some of them may have read either of the two threads above I haven't talked with them earlier about the WikiProject in specific before in terms of replying to them or pinging them or hearing from them. Prototyperspective (talk) 14:41, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::For the most part, you need to recruit editors in advance. This is not a "build it, and they will come" situation; this is more like a "make reality official, since our group is already working together" situation. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::As clarified, I didn't know about this / {{tq|that there is a place to propose a WikiProject}} until today. I've marked the page which contains the info as draft-stage with {{tl|WikiProject status}}. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:33, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

• Thanks for the ping. Happy to be involved with a WikiProject on the topic here on EN WP. Thanks to User:Prototyperspective for starting this effort. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:07, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for including me. I'd be happy to help. What's the over/under on how advanced you want the solution? Do the graphics just need to display in an agreeable format or do we need a full AI management tool for UI/UX visuals. I've got a lot of ideas for the latter, but we'll have to agree on the epistemic limits of the AI tool through consensus. -- Sleyece (talk) 01:18, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

::{{tq|What's the over/under on how advanced you want the solution? Do the graphics just need to display in an agreeable format}} The project would be about datagraphics in general like the ones in the Examples section, it's not about a solution or any particular solutions. Personally, I organized Our World in Data files on Commons for example (by subject and type), identified & updated outdated ones, and added a few of them to articles where they were missing, used KST to create a few charts, and added datagraphics from studies. This is for anybody interested in / involved in charts etc so a quite broad subject area. Prototyperspective (talk) 10:48, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

I added my username to the project participant list:

• :Category:WikiProject Data Visualization participants

{{re|Prototyperspective}} I think you said we need 10 members to allow this project to go ahead? Note to: {{u|Sleyece}} and {{u|Doc James}}. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:10, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

• I like this initiative and will participate if I can (thanks for the ping), though from a WP:COUNCIL organizatorical perspective I do think it would be better as a taskforce of either the Graphics Lab (i.e. Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Resources/Charts, my preference) or WP Statistics. Apart from the points made above about the inactivity of most new WikiProjects, this doesn't seem like it is intended use most of the functionality of a WikiProject: it'll be creating and maintaining graphics and related guidelines, rather than monitoring and maintaining articles in a topic area. – Joe (talk) 10:40, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Great, that's nice to hear! I think it's much better suited for a separate WikiProject than a taskforce of either Graphics Lab or WP Statistics. Reasons for that include but are not limited to the following:
• :* Subpages about taskforces are harder to find than a proper separate WikiProject
• :* This is a large-scale very-broad initiative and not suited for a task-force and not a good idea to downgrade it to a taskforce
• :* It's misleading and misplaced in a WikiProject that is about articles on the subject of statistics, not instances thereof (e.g. people may not look for it there and if they do, see next point plus many participants there are/may not be interested in what this is about)
• :* These initiatives could simply link to the WikiProject as a related project and vice versa
• :* Regarding inactivity, I think most other new WikiProjects are less broad and on subjects less prevalent and/or in less need of lots of diverse types of activities (such as updating outdated datagraphics or things to do with the upcoming extensions)
• :* WikiProjects aren't necessarily or required to be about {{tq|monitoring and maintaining articles in a topic area}} and it would be good to have one more WikiProject that is of another kind (albeit monitoring and maintaining articles is part of the activities, just largely not with an per-article approach)
• :* Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Resources/Charts is a hard to find page with just 11 pageviews the last 30 days and the Graphics Lab about a much broader subject that in addition despite being way broader does not include various activities of this WikiProject; the draft-stage Charts taskforce is about a subject much more narrow that is the Charts extension.
• :Prototyperspective (talk) 13:03, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::This effort will also include a significant software development component, which is unusual for most Wikiprojects. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:46, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::I agree that this needs to be it's own Project. It's multi-modal and will require coding skills or development knowledge for anyone who really intends on helping to a reasonable degree. Also, the Foundation has expressed interest in its own in house AI Model to handle things like this, so at some point we're going to be creating software that bumps up against their desires. My concern is not that they'll pump the breaks on our efforts, but that the Project will become exponentially more complex. A Task Force may be help for specifics -- Sleyece (talk) 21:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::Do you intend for this group to be working on the English Wikipedia, or across all the wikis? If this involves activity outside the English Wikipedia, then maybe it should be a broad m:Wikimedia user group instead of an enwiki-only editors group. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:11, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't see any way this project gets completed without becoming a Wikimedia user group, but I don't want to discount a separate EN:Wiki group. It's a multi-modal issue. -- Sleyece (talk) 00:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::In case you're asking me: the project would be about just English Wikipedia. A Wikimedia user group in addition maybe and/or more WikiProjects like it on other language Wikipedias sounds like a good idea. There's more than enough to do on ENWP alone and other projects could have other kinds of tasks and methods such as possibly identifying articles that have a newer datagraphic in their ENWP equivalent and checking whether to import such to their article version (random example Energy in Iceland and :fi:Energia Islannissa). Prototyperspective (talk) 00:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::This needs to be a Project. Commons:Category:Data graphics is a broad category. It includes datamaps too. Such as:

:::Commons:Category:English-language SVG choropleth maps of the United States with visible numbers. Made with templates

:::Those maps are made with a template and instructions that have been worked on for a long time. It's not something that can be developed in Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop.

:::What is really needed is a tool where one pastes in a list of states with values. Or a .csv file of the same. And out pops a fully finished US choropleth map with visible numbers. The user sees nothing of the inner workings of the tool.

:::These are longterm projects with people sharing ideas on Wikimedia pages, and with outside map tools and sites.

:::--Timeshifter (talk) 22:26, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::That's an excellent point. The UX/UI coding of this Project is going to be a huge task. This implementation will need to be seamless. -- Sleyece (talk) 00:39, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::{{re|Sleyece}} I had to look up [https://www.google.com/search?q=UX%2FUI UX/UI]. Please add your username here:

::::::Category:WikiProject Data Visualization participants

:::::--Timeshifter (talk) 04:13, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Timeshifter}} We had such a tool for many years using the now-disabled Graph extension, though it was underused and many people continued to use the SVG templates instead. With the upcoming replacement Chart extension we should be able to do something similar again, and this could be an opportunity to form a task force to develop and push it more effectively this time. – Joe (talk) 09:43, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

{{outdent|:::::}}

{{re|Joe Roe}} Currently, the one in development says: "This extension supports the following chart types: Bar chart. Pie chart. Line chart. Area chart." I am all for more chart and map tools. Please add your username here in order to reach the minimum of 10 members to form a new wikiproject:

• :Category:WikiProject Data Visualization participants

--Timeshifter (talk) 13:12, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:The goal of the project is to replace the old Graph extension (which supported thematic maps) and its underlying Javascript library, [https://echarts.apache.org/en/index.html Apache eCharts] supports geospatial data (e.g. [https://echarts.apache.org/examples/en/editor.html?c=map-usa-projection]), so I think it's safe to assume we'll get that before too long. It is also linked to Commons' sadly-underused data namespace, which already supports geospatial data – expanding the base maps available there would therefore be a good way to get a head start on improving data maps on enwiki.

:I've added myself to the list on that page. – Joe (talk) 17:07, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

::If the group's goal is to work on mw:Extension:Chart, then you probably ought to do it at mw: instead of here at w:en:. I'm sure the devs would love to have people available to answer their questions and make suggestions. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:11, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::In this project here I think users would make use of extensions and tools and add/embed things into articles. With such practical application one usually comes across partly or fully technical issues (and ideas) – these could then be discussed with other WikiProject participants and during or subsequently to that something could be reported to devs and the issue linked in the discussion or project page. That's kind of similar to c:Commons:Village pump/Technical where technical things are also being discussed, not just on phabricator where often an issue is created subsequently to a discussion assuming it couldn't be solved in another way.

:::Looks like currently we're only about 4 people away from the minimum of 10 participants. {{ping|Enyavar|MTheiler|Wikideas1|Lady3mlnm}} is anybody of you interested in joining the proposed WikiProject?

:::Also, if anybody would like to add or change something about the draft project page, go for it. Prototyperspective (talk) 20:39, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

::::That sounds interesting but I don’t know how I would help? Wikideas1 (talk) 05:35, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::You could post some subpages of the project page explaining step-by-step how you create some of your datagraphics. That's just one idea. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:13, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::I've been creating charts and maps for Wikimedia Commons since 2022. The project looks interesting to me though with my unstable life I can't promise participation in any joint activity. Thanks for the ping. — Lady3mlnm (talk) 13:31, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::{{u|Joe Roe}} and all. Feel free to add any map-related links along with a short explanation to here:

::c:Commons:Map resources

::--Timeshifter (talk) 03:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:Happy to join as I've been contributing similar SVG for the last 15 years. Please ping if you'd like help with anything in particular. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:46, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::cnglee created this template for US choropleth datamaps:

::Commons:File:Template map of US states and District of Columbia.svg

::--Timeshifter (talk) 12:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Yes, indeed. It uses a very clever technique pioneered by {{u|TilmannR}}: see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:SVG_created_with_JavaScript cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 15:19, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::I've added my name and would be happy to help out in the future (I'm rather busy now, but have a decent amount of experience in this area). I just worry this might go in the path of some other WikiProjects with tasks of this scale – dying a slow, uncared for, death – but I can't see any harm in try to centralise this somewhere in spite of that. – Isochrone (talk) 16:16, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Trust me, it won't. We can scale this on command. It's gonna be different this time. -- Sleyece (talk) 01:59, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Great news – we've reached 11 participants. Thanks for signing up. Can the proposed project now please be approved?

::

6. Wait for approval.
The decision will be made by consensus, probably within a couple of weeks. Please don't create any templates or categories for your potential group before then. (Cleaning up abandoned templates and categories is a hassle.)

:::@Prototyperspective, thanks for reminding me about this conversation. We are trying out this new process, and I really appreciate your patience with it.

:::We haven't figured out an official approval process yet, but you've assembled a group of experienced editors, and I don't see anyone objecting. If nobody disagrees by Monday, then I think you should considered your group approved.

:::Please consider putting a note on your calendar to come back here in six months or a year and tell us how things are going. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::::With no objections by now, the WikiProject is approved and I'll change the {{tl|WikiProject status}} to active. Thanks everyone, let's make this a great lively project.
If you would like to add or change something at the WikiProject page please go ahead and do so or suggest it at the wikiproject's talk page.
I'll make notes in my calendar to report back how things are going with the project. On May 20-22, the new Charts MediaWiki extension will be deployed on enwp – maybe there already is something to discuss or collaborate on regarding the use/adoption of the extension once it's available. Prototyperspective (talk) 23:14, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm really new and I'd like some advice. Also how much should I link, and what, and also how much should I correct grammar and what should I correct? Starrysecton (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, @Starrysecton. I have three suggestions for you:

:* Go to Special:Homepage, and look at the suggested tasks. (If the link to the special page doesn't work, then you might have to turn on the new editor features in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-homepage – remember to click the blue 'Save' button at the bottom of the page; prefs changes aren't auto-saving on Wikipedia.)

:* Tell us what kinds of subjects interest you (could be anything we've got an article on: anime? books? computers?), so we can show you how to find a relevant WikiProject (=group of editors). For example, if you tell them that you're interested in video games, we could recommend Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games. That group's page says they have some goals, such as the Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Stubs goal, which means finding a "stub" (=very short article) and adding more content and sources to it.

:* Post a note at the Wikipedia:Teahouse to request advice.

:WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:45, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

I’ve noticed the project is defunct (and wikiproject micronations is inactive) so I’m interested in what it takes to potentially revive it. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone else who would be interested in this, so if I had to do loads on my own it probably wouldn’t be very viable but i’m interested nonetheless notadev (talk) 02:53, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:Sadly what it mostly requires is anyone else who would be interested in it. This is not a unique situation, people have created Wikiprojects for most countries, and most of them are ghost towns. I generally advocate for merging them into larger groups in the hopes of bringing together more editors, however this isn't a magic solution as many editors may simply not be interested in broader topics. For now, I recommend keeping WikiProject San Marino (and maybe WikiProject Micronations) on your watchlist, and replying if anyone else shows an interest. CMD (talk) 02:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks, I thought as such, and I do think that something like wikiproject europe might be far too broad for what I’m specifically interested in (I’m not sure if it’s active either). notadev (talk) 03:22, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Agree that would be far too broad. Wikipedia:WikiProject European Microstates would be a more manageable size. CMD (talk) 03:57, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:On the general question, see WP:REVIVE. But I agree with the above comments: It's going to be difficult to find enough people to have a durable, active group. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:31, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

How to create a portal on Wikipedia. OωO Mary Joy 20 Marcial (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:@Mary Joy 20 Marcial, you can ask for help at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:01, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks! ^ω^ Mary Joy 20 Marcial (talk) 16:03, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I see that the WikiProject on Adoption, Fostering, Orphan Care, and Displacement at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Adoption,_fostering,_orphan_care_and_displacement is defunct during a Wikipedia edit-a-thon focused on adoption issues. There are currently 12 people participating. Grad0507 (talk]]) — Preceding undated comment added 21:40, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Grad0507, if people are participating in an edit-a-thon then that's likely working closer together than many WikiProjects do. If those participants want to revive a WikiProject they can, but it won't bring any particular benefits to the edit-a-thon or really affect the edit-a-thon at all. CMD (talk) 02:03, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

::You don't have to ask permission to WP:REVIVE an old group. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:03, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

I want to create a task force under a WikiProject. How would I go about doing this? Element10101 AIW WPI TOL{{colored link|lightgrey|User_talk:Element10101|T}} ~ {{colored link|lightgrey|Special:Contributions/Element10101|C}} 22:16, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

:@Element10101, are you asking for technical information or for permission? (Permission is easy: go to their talk page, make friends with whoever is there, and ask them if they think it would be a good idea to create a task force.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:48, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

::I was asking for permission; thank you! Element10101 AIW WPI TOL{{colored link|lightgrey|User_talk:Element10101|T}} ~ {{colored link|lightgrey|Special:Contributions/Element10101|C}} 00:48, 3 June 2025 (UTC)