Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musical Theatre#October Roll Call

Someone recently added a hatnote to the :Frozen (musical) article referring to a play called frozen. I deleted it, as the title of the musical article is not ambiguous. Another editor has suggested that musicals articles should have a hatnote referring to their film versions. I disagree and argue against that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Frozen_(musical)#Frozen_play_hatnote. Please comment either way at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Frozen_(musical)#Frozen_play_hatnote talk page here]. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:19, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

User:RossyAmbarsari has been adding Chita Awards to the long lists of awards noted at the end of musical theatre articles. See their contributions [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/RossyAmbarsari here]. I do not think this is appropriate, as the lists of musical theatre awards are already too long, containing such relatively minor awards as Critics' Circle. The choreographers' own articles can, of course, mention their Chita awards. What do others think? -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:22, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:Going by the way WP:FILM handles such things, I'd argue that any award that doesn't have its own article (as a way of establishing its significance) likely shouldn't be mentioned. DonIago (talk) 17:30, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

::The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chita_Rivera_Awards_for_Dance_and_Choreography do have an article], but the awards apply only to dance and choreography, which are not, IMO, significant enough for the musicals' main article, but should be mentioned on the choreographers' article. IMO, it would not be encyclopedic for the musical theatre articles' awards section to go on and on with every award related in any way to the musical. IMO they already take up too much space at the bottom of articles. If someone wants a "complete" list of awards, one could write a subarticle per WP:SUMMARY. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:06, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure it's worth fussing over given we have a wikipedia page on the award. The awards get coverage in Playbill, Broadwayworld.com, etc. which are widely read. They do meet our notability guidelines. Another line in an awards table hardly seems disruptive on the musical pages. There aren't so many theatre awards at present that a split off page is needed, but maybe someday we will get there with certain shows. To my mind it isn't worth constantly policing the awards tables to remove awards that have stand alone articles. It's only likely to invite edit warring or wack-a-mole type editing. I'd just leave them if someone added them, but not go out of my way to add them myself.4meter4 (talk) 20:05, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

::::I agree that Chita Awards shouldn't be removed from a musical's main article. Also considering that choreography are a significant part of many musicals, and they're associated with the "classic" version of some musicals (for example West Side Story, musicals by Bob Fosse & Jerome Robbins etc.) RossyAmbarsari (talk) 23:18, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

Was about to create an article for the musical version of Smash but see there is already a draft here - Draft:Smash (musical). I attempted to move it to mainspace and unable to because of the current redirect. There seems to be a backlog.

Anyone able to expediate this? A major new musical on Broadway should have its own page. Mark E (talk) 11:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:@{{U|Mark E}} we discussed this earlier as a project. Originally we talked about moving this in March, but I didn't realize at the time it was in a preview stage. Technically the show isn't out yet. It's in previews and doesn't officially premiere until Thursday, April 10, 2025. The New York critics won't write on the show until the evening of April 10/ day of April 11 into the weekend following. Our practice as a project is to wait until shows have been reviewed before allowing them to move to main space along the lines of WP:NEVENT/WP:CRYSTAL policy. Otherwise the article would mainly be built from press releases which isn't good practice. We should move it to main space on April 11, 2025 when we can add independent reviews of the production, and simultaneously put it up for a WP:DYK. If we move it to main space now the sourcing probably would get skewered as non-independent under WP:DYKCRIT, and could get taken to WP:AFD. It's better to wait until we get some solid critical reviews before moving this to main space. I'd like to see the musical get featured on the main page. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:34, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::@{{u|Liz}} Would you be willing to move Draft:Smash (musical) to main space for the project on April 11? I know at that point it will have independent critical reviews in The New York Times, The New York Tribune, and Playbill among other publications and WP:SIGCOV/WP:CRYSTAL won't be an issue. There will be lots of reviews published on that day in the national press.4meter4 (talk) 20:00, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::::I agree with 4meter4's recommendation. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

::Im inclined to disagree that a musical in previews doesn't warrant it's own page, just from the side of a consumer of the material. I'm looking for cast information and musical numbers and background information on development. Smash has had a long road to Broadway and so there is plenty of content available to source.

::Just some examples, - Just in Time (musical) has a page and hasn't started previews yet. The Greatest Showman (musical) has a page and won't premiere until next year.

::If I'm being honest, if there wasn't already a draft waiting to go, I was about to create the article as it meets notability standards for a page NOW, I honestly see no reason to wait any further. Daily page views for the TV show article have doubled since the show began previews, its obvious there are many people looking for information on the musical. Mark E (talk) 11:38, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello! I recently moved The Big Gay Jamboree to the main space and was wondering if any folks on here had advice for finding creative commons image that would be suitable to include in the main infobox. Marla Mindelle's other work Titanique has a great one, and other musicals of the like--I'm not sure how to get a poster image without violating some kind of commercial license. (I also posted the article in the article assessment section of the talk page if anyone has feedback / has places to embed this article further in the canon of information on musical theatre!) Thank you in advance! Rachelevey (talk) 03:05, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Someone has added to our flagship Musical theatre article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Musical_theatre&diff=1286805423&oldid=1286126681 this paragraph] listing a bunch of musicals, based entirely on some articles by New York Times theater critic Jesse Green, claiming that "Nerdicals" are a recent trend in musical theatre. Can anyone with good access to the NYT say if the cited NYT articles (1) properly verify all the claims made; and (2) really do represent a "trend" that is generally recognized by people other than Green? I think it is clear that if this is only Green's description of something, it would not rise to the level of "trend". -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:17, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

:Green uses the term in five articles published in the NYT from 2022-2025, and the description in the musical theatre article is accurate to those sources. I couldn't find any other writer who picked up on this neologism. Per MOS:NEO we probably should not include it in the musical theatre article because it has only been used by a single writer.4meter4 (talk) 14:07, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

::I agree and will remove it, unless others disagree. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

The article's "Recordings" section contains a long list of recordings. I suggest that the recordings of the film soundtracks (or based on the soundtrack versions) be removed and moved to the appropriate film articles, if they're not already there. We could then drop a footnote stating that the soundtrack recordings are discussed in the articles about the films. Also, some of the items listed are just a single selection. Should they be listed? And the item in the list about :Symphonic Dances from West Side Story -- should it also be moved out of the musical's article? Then, should we separate cast albums from other recordings, or just keep them all chronological? -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:@{{u|Ssilvers}} I personally would not support separating out recordings in this manner. We should have a comprehensive list. However, there is a better solution. There are enough recordings that we can and should have a separate discography page that includes the film soundtrack recordings. This would mirror the WikiProject Opera practice. For example see The Marriage of Figaro discography. We can create a separate page at West Side Story discography, and then have a small prose section in the West Side Story page with a main article link to the discography page. This would allow for significant trimming in the musical article. I am happy to work on this.4meter4 (talk) 17:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

::Yes, that sounds like a good solution. The narrative prose section that is left in the article itself can focus on the stage musical, and the film and symphonic dances articles could also cross-reference the discography. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:15, 30 April 2025 (UTC)