Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union#IRFU Flag

Hi all, I want to gather consensus to change the links of the leads of the articles that currently exist in List of rugby union clubs in Germany. In some of the articles (FT Adler Kiel Rugby (I've edited), TSV Handschuhsheim, RG Heidelberg, RG Heidelberg, Heidelberger TV, and many more). All of these articles in the lead, say "(CLUBNAME) is a German rugby union club<--red link ...". I figured out the red link happened because the category page was moved from :Category:German rugby union clubs to :Category:Rugby union clubs in Germany, with no redirect left behind. A good idea would be to fix all these links to point to the new category, but I think an edit like I did here, would be nice, since the category page lists only the clubs that exist as articles, but the list includes a full list. What do you all think? Justjourney (talk) 03:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

:This doesn't require an RFC, and I would encourage you to remove that part of this post. We shouldn't be linking to categories from the article space, so replacing the cat link with a better article link is obviously the best way to proceed. Primefac (talk) 14:37, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

::So I have changed the links for the articles under "Baden-Württemberg" heading, so {{partially done}}, may contiune to do this later Justjourney (talk | contribs) 19:54, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

I raised a topic on this article's talk page, but I figured it probably doesn't get much traffic, so I'm raising the issue here too: how come Tonga's cap number 207 and 213 are held by the same person (Viliami Tupoulahi Mailefihi Tukuʻaho) under two different names? Am I missing something? – PeeJay 19:26, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Going to assume this was an ESPN error. I've seen a couple of other examples where ESPN have had two profiles for the same player due to different names being used in team lists. The only other thing I can think of if it's not this error would be that the England XV games weren't fully capped games or something like that. Whether these numbers correlate to the official Tongan cap numbers though I don't know. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:18, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

::I don't think I've ever seen an official list of Tongan cap numbers, which makes me wonder if we ought to remove that column from the list and remove the duplicate name. The source is adequate, though; it's dead but has been archived at the Wayback Machine. – PeeJay 20:25, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:::If there is no official list, then I agree that column/information should be removed. Primefac (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Just asking, but why does there have to be an official list? If there is an adequate source for the number of caps of a player, isn't that enough? If there is no adequate source, you can leave it open. Ruggalicious (talk) 01:29, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::We're not talking about the number of caps, we're talking about the cap number, i.e. the order in which the players were first capped for their country. New Zealanders might know it as the "All Black number" for their national team. – PeeJay 11:59, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

There is currently a move discussion in place Talk:Super Rugby #Requested move 20 April 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Servite et contribuere (talk) 11:43, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

History of the Highlanders (rugby union) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 21:20, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

A bit of a dispute I'd appreciate some comments on. @PeeJay keeps changing 2025–26 Ulster Rugby season to put URC fixtures before the league table. I'm of the opinion that it's natural to put tables before fixtures, because the table is the summary of the competition and the fixtures are the details. I've looked up a selection of examples (2024–25 Premier League, 2024–25 United Rugby Championship, 1986 FIFA World Cup, 2020 Indian Premier League, 2024 Currie Cup Premier Division) and they're all arranged that way. I can't find any counter-examples that aren't PeeJay's work. Any else have any thoughts? Nicknack009 (talk) 14:32, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:I would agree and say table before fixtures. It makes the most sense in my opinion. Louis (talk) (contribs) 15:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

:I'd always go table before fixtures. I don't think I've seen it any other way in any rugby union or other sports examples I can think of. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:34, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Bringing this here to try and get some more views on this. {{u|Whybeetoo}} has added large Junior Squads to the main page. While a source for the squad does exist on the main Sharks website (although not included) I think it's fancruft and not suitable for an encyclopedic article and that the section on the Sharks Currie Cup page should suffice, as we don't include for other South African sides. There's also a dispute on whether Currie Cup information should be included on the Sharks (rugby union) page of Sharks (Currie Cup) page. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:10, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you. To clarify my position.

:Re Junior Squad:

:*Including the Sharks Junior Squad is in line with Major Top 14 pages detailing the team's "Espoirs" squad. Additionally, the Junior Squad are professionally contracted players

:Re Currie Cup:

:*There is no longer a material distinction at the Sharks, Bulls, and Lions between "franchise" and "union" after the introduction of private ownership. The Bulls and Lions brand their teams exactly the same (dropping the Blue from the Blue Bulls and the Golden from Golden Lions). the Sharks add a small modifier "XV" and the Stormers have recently publicised that they are working towards removing the distinction between WP and the Stormers as both teams are now owned by the same entity. I understand this distinction was once relevant - though i'd argue still nebulous - there is now no distinction. Here is an article detailing exactly this: https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/stormers/iconic-western-province-to-be-permanently-dropped-for-exclusive-use-of-stormers-20240827

:*Crucially, there is no identifiable distinction made practically by the Sharks and Bulls between the player pools of the URC and Currie Cup. WP/Stormers retain a distinction through different websites. The Lions list the URC and Currie Cup squads under different tabs on the same website. The Sharks and Bulls dont identify a differently contracted Currie Cup versus URC squad. The overlap in the Venn diagram of players is almost a perfect circle. The relevant analogy here is professional football and a clubs team competing in the EPL versus the Carabao Cup. While the one may feature more junior squad members, it would make no sense to have different pages for the teams.

:*Formally the Sharks, Bulls and Lions dont distinguish the history of their teams on their websites in describing their teams. They begin their history from the unions formation to date, including super rugby, and now URC and EPCR.

:Whybeetoo (talk) 10:47, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

::On list of Junior squads, I would be ok with the U21 squad (listed on Sharks website) to be included but no more than that. The previous squads and junior squads are complete overkill and fancruft. On Currie Cup I'm happy to see what other editors feel, it would take time and userpower to merge/convert all over especially with categories and templates. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:52, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Re only u21:

:::*The Sharks appear to be transitioning between maintaining a distinction between u21/u19 rugby squad branding and contracting. Their announcements this year only detailed a "Junior Squad" and of those players, the younger ones who would otherwise have played u19 have been featuring in the u21 competition. It would be unclear how to make and enact that distinction. Unfortunately, the Sharks update their website poorly - their Senior Squad is outdated, as is the Junior Squad. They rely on social media for this type of info.

:::Re overkill on previous Junior squads:

:::*It is my belief that this has value ito of tracking general and specific player development and is not about just merely listing names - but there is a deletion discussion ongoing and there is no need to further rehash that here.

:::Re time to rectify:

:::*Yes this would be effort to properly depict. The easiest way forward imo is to convert the currie cup pages to "history of" articles.

:::Whybeetoo (talk) 11:06, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

::::I think history of articles would again be overkill, we'd struggle to find enough WP:GNG sourcing (because the majority of it is offline and it's always been difficult to access SA media from offline period) for standalone articles so would likely be a merge and redirect, but not sure whether we would merge EP Elephants to Southern Kings (per the other sides) etc. Keeping them as history of is almost keeping them the same, so we would be rehashing the information in 2 separate articles. We have previously created separate articles for NPC teams in NZ, so maybe the Currie Cup articles could be converted into Natal/Pretoria/Gauteng/Western Province rugby union articles (or however you want to title) detailing history/youth rugby/women's rugby etc and then keeping the other for squads and tournament history etc, but will need a strong consensus either way. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:13, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I will take the guidance of others as to what is best. I shifted the main sharks page in way that dealt with this problem; nevertheless it would be sad to lose the detail thats on the Currie Cup page but perhaps that is the only way.

:::::The NPC example isnt relevant here because there is huge distinction between NZ sides and SA sides. The NZ NPC and Super Rugby sides are distinct legal entities and governed separately afaik. The SA sides (Currie Cup and URC) now are ALL owned and governed by the same entity.

:::::The EP Elephants / Kings case is complex and their i would favour distinction. The Kings was jointly owned/governed by 3 provincial franchises (EPRU, SWD and Border) and then was taken over by SA rugby, as opposed to the EP Elephants which was always just the EPRU. As i said, the URC teams and their Currie Cup sides are legally the same entity. Whybeetoo (talk) 11:22, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::I was only using the NZ sides as an example on what could be done in splitting/merging the two pages and that was in reference the the NPC side pages (such as Tasman and Tasman Rugby Union) rather than the Super Rugby sides. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:26, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Understood - the issues is that youth and women's rugby now all fall under the primary sharks team and brand - the same at the Bulls i believe. The work of the KZNRU has been fully folded into the singular Sharks business. So separating the KZNRU (other than explaining its history and structure) out into different places doesn't capture the architecture of the team and business in 2025. Whybeetoo (talk) 11:16, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::If this is the case, and a similar situation with the other 3 pro teams (Lions, Stormers, Cheetahs) then I'd probably just say a selective merge if we were to go ahead and the CC pages becoming redirect pages. I just don't see there as being enough WP:GNG passing information for standalone pages, especially as there's been a cull of these sorts of pages in other sports (a number I've seen in cricket in the past couple of years, some of which were featured articles). Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::The best way to look at it is, the unions are all owners of their respective franchise. Some majority, some minority. They all operate as entities under their franchise brand. From URC, to Currie Cup, to youth and schools, they all operate under the franchise brand.

::::::In name only the Stormers/WP are an outlier, but that is only external branding (and possibly set to change). Die Revenant (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

• Would like a few more opinions on this before going ahead on the changes, although I appreciate there is only a limited number of active project editors now. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:49, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Good evening all,

Even when not I'm logged in to an account, YouTube *knows* my search preferences are for linguistics, early jet aircraft, and rugby sevens vids.

And so the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9MpuxiWgSY this] of [https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/c784dn08mzeo this] pops up in my feed. (Not a :WP:LINKVIO - as far as I can see "https://www.youtube.com/@britishandirishlions" is the The British & Irish Lions official YouTube channel.

I've created "1888 Cup" as a redirect.

Is this something that could be expanded on?

Pete AU aka Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:35, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:https://www.lionsrugby.com/en/1888-cup/history-of-the-1888-cup Louis (talk) (contribs) 11:30, 21 June 2025 (UTC)