talk:plover

These two pages appear to be redundant covering the same group of birds. They should be combined by someone who is more expert in the area than I am. Dzbech (talk) 03:38, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

: See comments in next section.  —  Jts1882 | talk  15:26, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:nl:Kieviten en plevieren

plovers are apparently plevieren and there is a whole page dedicated to it already. MandyYoungh (talk) 17:18, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

:I tried, but it took me to Wikidata and then told me that the Kieviten en plevieren page was already linked to that item (Q139321) - which I can see right at the top under languages, but not down the bottom in the Wikipedia links section. It needs someone more experienced than I am in that area, sorry. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::{{ping|Dzbech|MandyYoungh|Laterthanyouthink}} As noted in the previous section, there are two Wikidata items :d:Q139321, en plover and 28 other languages, and :d:Q28449, en Charadriidae and 60 other languages, which cover the same group of birds. The nl article is linked to the latter. I suggest a conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds about merging the articles. There was a recent discussion about merging :Green-backed heron and :Butorides. TSventon (talk) 12:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::I have started a conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds#Merge plovers?. TSventon (talk) 12:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Thanks very much for that. I won't have time to look at it again until tomorrow, but hopefully it will be decided there. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::: I don't think there will be a quick answer as the articles probably need more substantial reorganising. In short, plovers can be used sensu lato to cover the whole of family Charadriidae (= :d:Q28449) or sensu stricto for only subfamily Charadriinae (=:d:Q139321), with the lapwings in subfamily Vanellinae. The Dutch article :nl:Kieviten en plevieren (=lapwings and plovers) is properly linked to {{wdq|Q28449}}. Recent phylogenetic work suggests the tradition subfamilies need revision and I'm not sure such a revision has been published yet. As mentioned above, this will be discussed further at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds#Merge plovers?.  —  Jts1882 | talk  15:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::@Jts1882, Laterthanyouthink, MandyYoungh, TSventon - yes, they should be merged, as both articles cover the same 69 species; I'd say it should be at the name Charadriidae, as not every species in the family is actually called 'plover', and the name as used is polyphyletic (some birds called 'plover' are more related to birds called 'lapwing', than they are to some other bird that are also called 'plover'). The revision has been published; see the Černý & Natale reference cited at Charadriidae and also IOC [https://www.worldbirdnames.org/bow/buttonquail/ 14.2]. - MPF (talk) 21:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)