:Talk:Union Jack#Merge proposal

The "Royal Union Flag" enjoys none, and never did. An editor who reverted me the last time I deleted that blurb from the lede went on to add another reference...which still didn't prove anything.

First, the article text said "by parliamentary resolution"; this is a major clue to anyone who knows anything about Westminster parliaments that it wasn't a statute and is thus not legally binding in any way.

Second, the cited press release by the office of Jason Kenney, on the occasion of "Commonwealth Day", doesn't even cite such a (non-legally-binding) parliamentary resolution. Information on such a resolution also wasn't readily found with Google search; I didn't search Hansard, but others are free to try FWIW.

Third, the newly added "Canadian Encyclopedia" reference doesn't mention anything about legal status of the Union Jack. In fact, both the Canadian Red Ensign and Flag of Canada articles plainly state that the Maple Leaf flag was the first to ever have official status in Canadian law. Moreover, even this very article states that the Union Jack has no legal status in the United Kingdom itself...so why would it have status in Canada? Again, it never enjoyed any legal status as such, and neither did the Red Duster. Both are described as de facto national flags.

It doesn't matter how many times my edit is reverted; the facts speak for themselves. The only flag to have ever had legal status in Canada is the Maple Leaf. 142.126.188.33 (talk) 17:57, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Union Jack and Flag of the United Kingdom are the same thing, why must we have two different articles about the British flag? The only reason I see for not merging them is that the article could be "too long" or whatever Thegoofhere (talk) 23:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Thegoofhere}} They are separate articles because the uses of the Union Jack in the United Kingdom are notable and are discussed in detail in the Flag of the United Kingdom article. This article also has a further information template that leads to Flag of the United Kingdom that discusses uses in the United Kingdom in detail. The Union Jack is a broader topic because its design is used in places other than the United Kingdom and has been used on many flags, such as the flag of Australia, flag of Ontario, and flag of Hawaii. The construction of the Union Jack is discussed in detail in this article. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:38, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

::Seems clear cut duplicative to me. The following sections on the Flag of the United Kingdom article are also in the Union Jack article with no difference in content beyond paraphrasing:

::*Name > Terminology

::*Flying the flag and Flying from public buildings > Flying and Status in the United Kingdom

::*Welsh representation, Northern Ireland and Scottish independence > After 1801

::*Construction sheets > Design

::In fact, the flag of the United Kingdom article even opens, 'The national flag of the United Kingdom is the Union Jack...'

::I'll add a merge discussion template to the pages as I don't think this has been discussed since 2016, looking through the archives. Dgp4004 (talk) 10:34, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

{{Discussion top|result=The result of this discussion was to merge Flag of the United Kingdom into Union Jack. A discussion on the name of the merged article may follow if desired. Dgp4004 (talk) 14:40, 23 June 2025 (UTC)}}

I propose merging Flag of the United Kingdom into Union Jack. The content of the Flag of the United Kingdom article is not a fleshed out version of the Union Jack article as it relates to the United Kingdom. Rather, the content is either copied and pasted from the Union Jack article or it is paraphrased.

:*Name > Terminology

:*Flying the flag and Flying from public buildings > Flying and Status in the United Kingdom

:*Welsh representation, Northern Ireland and Scottish independence > After 1801

:*Construction sheets > Design

:In fact, the flag of the United Kingdom article even opens, 'The national flag of the United Kingdom is the Union Jack...'

Dgp4004 (talk) 10:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Given that the Union Jack is also known as the Union Flag, and that other designs were proposed after the foundation of the Union but before the adoption of the flag, it would make more sense to merge Union Jack into Flag of the United Kingdom. It also aligns better with other "Flag of..." articles. Bazza 7 (talk) 12:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::Ideally, we shouldn't go down the rabbit hole of Union Jack vs Union Flag as that will inevitably scupper the merge, I fear. I think establishing a consensus on merging the pages based on content would be sensible, then a discussion about the name of that page can follow as a separate discussion following the merge. Given the content is fairly light on the Flag of the UK article, it would be easier to merge the content into the much more substantial Union Jack article, and likely generate less controversy than doing it the other way around. Dgp4004 (talk) 13:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::The merge should be done into Union Jack, because that's where most of the edit history is. As Dgp4004 says, the merged article can be renamed later, if people decide that's appropriate. But first we need to do the merge. --Zundark (talk) 10:42, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:Support the merger. Ahammed Saad (talk) 07:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Support the merger. Although the use in the United Kingdom is notable, much of the information seems to be duplicated in the broader Union Jack article. The article on the Japanese Wikipedia, :ja:イギリスの国旗, covers uses of the Union Jack in general and goes beyond the coverage within the United Kingdom. Z. Patterson (talk) 22:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::I also think that the contents of Flag of the United Kingdom should be merged into Union Jack, and Union Jack should be moved to Flag of the United Kingdom to standardise the article names. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:25, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:Support. Whose idea was it to make these separate articles? Zacwill (talk) 20:59, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{replyto|Zacwill}} According to Special:History/Union Jack, in 2001, Zundark created the Union Jack article at Special:Diff/560849690. Two years later, in Special:History/Flag of the United Kingdom, Tarquin originally created a redirect to Union Jack in Special:Diff/3498996. On 5 July 2004 0:28 (UTC), an unregistered user with the IP address 203.220.170.121 turned the Flag of the United Kingdom redirect into an article in Special:Diff/4448602. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:30, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:Support the merge. --Zundark (talk) 10:44, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

{{Discussion bottom}}

{{requested move/dated|Flag of the United Kingdom}}

:Union Jack → {{no redirect|Flag of the United Kingdom}} – Now that the two articles have been merged, it's unclear which name should be used. I'm pretty on the fence about this--"Flag of the United Kingdom" is more in line with other flag articles on Wikipedia, and it's not common to use a nickname for a flag. However, the Union Jack is referred to as the Union Jack enough that it might qualify as WP:COMMOMNAME. Thoughts? Omnigrade (talk) 05:24, 24 June 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose move per WP:COMMONNAME. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:30, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose move as both the more common name, and more concise. . . dave souza, talk 09:37, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. DankJae 17:58, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. Originally, I had supported the decision when we were merging Flag of the United Kingdom into Union Jack, but because Union Jack is a common name and may be more well known than "Flag of the United Kingdom", I would have to oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Z. Patterson (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support. It's called the Union Flag, not the Union Jack, as anyone with any knowledge about the subject knows. I wouldn't object to it being moved to that title, which is also very common. If we're going to apply WP:COMMONNAME to flag nicknames in this way then we should move Flag of the United States to Stars and Stripes. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:05, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Did you read paragraph 3 of the lead, and the references? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:13, 26 June 2025 (UTC)