MediaWiki talk:Histlegend

Clicking on "Find edits by user" takes us to the sigma toolforge page, and there is no cursor there. Request to add focus to the Username field on page load. The alternate link at xtools does have the focus in the User field. Jay ^(Talk) 12:37, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

:{{re|Jay}} That's out of the scope of this talk. You have to ask User:Σ directly. Nardog (talk) 14:34, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

{{sudo|answered=yes}}

I believe that the histlegend would look better if separated from the surroundings using a single cell wikitable following the first

:Above is with toccolours. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:51, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

::Enqueued as an edit request to attract feedback. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:54, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

:::Pings to @Izno and @PrimeHunter who commented above. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:55, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

::::Yeah, still don't see a reason. This is in a place that should be left to the skins to style if it's necessary. Izno (talk) 16:53, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

:::::or the users... it does have an id, histlegend that can be styled on. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:07, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

• {{not done}} As there was an objection this is basically the parralel process to WP:BRD - now and is at "D"; please establish a consensus for the change to proceed. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:31, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

{{FPER|answered=yes}}

Where the link {{red|1=[https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php?page=runbotsingle&pagesearch={{FULLPAGENAMEE}} Fix dead links]}} is located, please add the code {{green|1=&wiki=enwiki}}, which corresponds to English Wikipedia, to the end of the URL. Then, it will be {{green|1=[https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php?page=runbotsingle&pagesearch={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&wiki=enwiki Fix dead links]}}. Francisco (talk) 00:43, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

:{{done}} — xaosflux ^Talk 01:24, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

{{Edit fully-protected|MediaWiki:Histlegend|answered=yes}}

In the first link, please change:

http://wikipedia.ramselehof.de/wikiblame.php

to:

https://www.ramselehof.de/wikipedia/wikiblame.php

Reason: The current URL is down, and the proposed replacement is the presently working URL (see {{slink|User talk:Flominator|WikiBlame down?}}). The maintainer would like this change to be undone when the issue is fixed, but says that changing it for the moment may be smart. (ping {{u|Flominator}} for your info)

Best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 12:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{done}} for now. I'd be happy to swap back when the maintainer says it's ready. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

::{{ping|Firefangledfeathers}} FYI, the previous URL is now working again, so the edit swapping it out can be undone :) - Special:Diff/1193230581. Best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 21:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Flominator}} any chance of getting SSL working on the first link? — xaosflux ^Talk 21:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

::::{{u|xaosflux}}, should we hold off on switching back to the old link while this is outstanding? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:54, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::@Firefangledfeathers ultimately this is up to Flominator, esp if they don't want people using their other server. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

::::::Flo's most recent request was that we swap back when possible, so I've done so. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

::::Looks like SSL is operational now for wikipedia.ramselehof.de. Flominator (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::@Flominator thanks for the note, I've updated the link to use https now. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

{{edit fully-protected|MediaWiki:Histlegend|answered=yes}}

Pleast make the change as described in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:X1&diff=prev&oldid=1216651230 this diff]. Please notify me since the url for XTools' Blame tool doesn't show up despite in the source code. Toadette ^{(April Fools Day!)} 07:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

: {{not done}} That external tool only works in mainspace anyway. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

::@Pppery, really? Toadette ^{(Let's talk together!)} 06:51, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

::: Why don't you try it yourself? I'm getting "Authorship statistics are only available for mainspace articles". I.e https://xtools.wmcloud.org/blame/en.wikipedia.org/Portal:A/?q=a * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:16, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

The default legend has changed a bit since 2008 ([https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Histlegend/en&action=history history on translatewiki.net]).

MediaWiki default in 2008:

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=Diff selection: mark the radio boxes of the versions to compare and hit enter or the button at the bottom.
Legend: (cur) = difference with current version, (last) = difference with preceding version, M = minor edit.}}

Meanwhile, the MediaWiki default has become a bit more visually balanced. Just three items, prominent enough to find when you're looking for it, but not drawing undue attention to itself. MediaWiki default as of 2021:

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=Diff selection: Mark the radio buttons of the revisions to compare and hit enter or the button at the bottom.
Legend: (cur) = difference with latest revision, (prev) = difference with preceding revision, m = minor edit.}}

Prior to 2008, we used more or less the default legend here, except for the addition of {{tq|1=→ = section edit}} and {{tq|1=← = automatic edit summary}}.

English Wikipedia in 2008:

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary.
Legend: (cur) = difference from current version, (last) = difference from preceding version, m = minor edit, ← = automatic edit summary, → = section edit}}

In 2008, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Histlegend&diff=prev&oldid=101147082 this edit] removed "Legend: ", the "last" label is now now as "prev", and later in 2018 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Histlegend&diff=next&oldid=860921451 this edit] joined the two sentences together, giving us the state we have today.

English Wikipedia in 2025:

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary. {{nowrap|1=(cur) = difference}} from current version, {{nowrap|1=(prev) = difference}} from preceding version, {{nowrap|1=m = minor edit}}, {{nowrap|1=→ = section edit}}, {{nowrap|1=← = automatic edit summary}}}}

I imagine the vast majority of us never read this legend, because we're deeply familiar with what each indicator means. For those who need this legend to navigate and interpret the page history, I think the current state shown above is not very effective. The legend starts in the middle of a paragraph, and doesn't look like a legend when scanning up and down the page. I've got two proposals to address this:

Option A: Replace legend with link to Help:Page history.

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary.}}

There is quite a bit more to learn about the history page than just the interpretation of these indicators. We previously removed the explanation about "Diff selection" in favor of the help link. If the current legend is not effective, perhaps we can do without it?

thumb

The "m" and arrow indicators are not required for new users to understand the history. Knowing what they stand for is not required for any research activity, I think? It is useful to a seasoned editor to quickly recognise these nuances, but that's something you can learn later.

Also anno 2025, the MediaWiki software has several features that already explain these indicators elsewhere on the same page:

• Every revision marked with m also has question cursor with a tooltip that reads "This is a minor edit".
• Every arrow i front of an automatic edit summary is linked to WP:AES, which explains the feature in context.
• The native "File:OOjs_UI_icon_helpNotice-ltr.svg Help" icon on the top-right of every history page, links to mw:Help:History on mediawiki.org, which covers these things.
• Plus of course our own inline link to Help:Page history in the intro text, which also covers these things, and more.

These are prominent, discoverable, and perhaps obsolete the need for a legend?

Option B: Keep a short legend

{{Quote box|align=center|quote=For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary.
Legend: {{nowrap|1=(cur) = difference}} with latest revision, {{nowrap|1=(prev) = difference}} with preceding revision}}

Unlike the m-indicator and arrow symbols, the "cur" and "prev" link are arguably important to understand. Perhaps we believe they're self-evident for most new users? If not, these may be worth preserving. A shortened version of the legend would fit on a single line, and take up no more vertical space than the current version.

What do you think? Krinkle (talk) 14:34, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'm glad to see this topic being raised, since we ought to be focusing on interface improvements, and page histories are one of areas most sorely in need of reform. I'm also on a similar page about the legend specifically — I don't think it's good design, since the elements of the page should make sense by themselves without the need to refer to a legend (which is a very print-based type of aid). That said, I'm not sure these reforms are the way to go. The current status is that many elements of page histories don't adequately make sense by themselves, and hiding the explanations behind a click to a help page could make it harder for new editors to find them.

:There are other things I'd want to change. Why is the minor edit "m" before the byte changes rather than nearer to the edit summary, which would give more of an indication that it's something the editor designated rather than something determined by the software? And for that matter, why doesn't the tooltip note that it was editor-designated, or what a minor edit actually is? And would it really take up too much space to spell out "minor"? Wouldn't byte changes be more intuitive if displayed as e.g. (14,740 bytes, {{green|+147}}) rather than (14,740 bytes) {{green|(+147)}}? I'm sure an actual designer could come up with much more to improve, but that'd probably require WMF assistance. Sdkb ^talk 17:13, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:I think Option B is an improvement over the current state, with or without adding "Legend" back in -- the line break helps make it easier for the eye to reach the legend info. I would also support other edits to make it visually more prominent, such as its own box, or background or border colors. I think Option A is a step back. You shouldn't have to navigate to get this info, and some people will want it right there as they review the page. In fact, having the legend stay on screen while you scroll might be helpful for people who are new to edit history (though possibly irritating for the veterans, depending on implementation). -- Avocado (talk) 14:23, 27 April 2025 (UTC)