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Talk:A-flat clarinet/GA1

GA Review

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| status =

| result = Passed. Schminnte [talk to me] 00:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

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{{al|{{#titleparts:A-flat clarinet/GA1|-1}}|noname=yes}}
:This review is transcluded from Talk:A-flat clarinet/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Schminnte (talk · contribs) 08:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello @ Jonathanischoice, you know the drill by now so I'll skip the boring bits. I'll start working on this review soon, at least within the week. As a clarinettist, I'm excited to get started and spotcheck with my own copies! All the best, Schminnte [talk to me] 08:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

:@Jonathanischoice, I think I have finished with review comments. I will now place the article on the standard hold period to give you time to address them. All the best, Schminnte [talk to me] 21:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

:: {{ping|Schminnte}} - Hi, I'm half-way through, but it's now Christmas in my part of the world (Merry Christmas!) so I might not be able to get to this for another few days. Cheers, Jon (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:::@Jonathanischoice: Still a few hours here! I'm more than happy to extend the hold for a while, say until New Year's Day? Would that work for you? Schminnte [talk to me] 22:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

::::That would be good - I've just got back to it today. Cheers — Jon (talk) 10:10, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Schminnte}} nearly but not quite finished, can you let me know what you think so far? Cheers — Jon (talk) 00:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::@Jonathanischoice, great progress. Just a few more points. Schminnte [talk to me] 02:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

:::: {{ping|Schminnte}} side note... I'm trying to get hold of [https://tewaharoa.victoria.ac.nz/permalink/64VUW_INST/1m9iv9v/cdi_askewsholts_vlebooks_9780810886483 this resource] (Dictionary for the Modern Clarinetist) which could be a good RS for remaining points, but I might not get to it in time; apparently the full text is available through ProQuest but my library doesn't get to it, and I won't be able to interloan the physical book until after 8 January. Are you able to get it? — Jon (talk) 08:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::It appears to be available on [https://archive.org/details/dictionaryformod0000ells/mode/1up archive.org] with a free membership. Can you get it through that? Schminnte [talk to me] 09:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::{{ping|Schminnte}} happy new year :) thanks for finding that, I didn't think to look on IA. I've attempted to address the remaining points, where possible, and marked them with a yellow (!) icon for convenience. Zero luck with images or sound samples so far, alas. Jon (talk) 20:32, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::Happy new year Jon. Seeing as all other points are resolved and User:Mscuthbert has been inactive for two weeks, I'm going to pass this review. Other discussions about new images and sounds can be discussed on the talk page: for now I am aware that the review has been open for two weeks and content that locating the best quality media has been attempted. Congratulations on another GA! All the best, Schminnte [talk to me] 00:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

= Comments =

:GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

  1. It is reasonably well written.
  2. :a (prose, spelling, and grammar): {{GAList/check|y}} b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): {{GAList/check|y}}
  3. :: §Lede:
  4. ::: Turn the two links to clarinet and clarinet family into a single link to clarinet family over both words - S
  5. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  6. ::: {{tq|common B♭ clarinet, and pitched a minor seventh higher}}: remove comma since we are still discussing the Bb - S
  7. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  8. ::: {{tq|Around the beginning of the 19th century several}}: comma needed after century for clarity - S
  9. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  10. ::: More generally I would like to see the lede expanded to include more points from §Construction and §Repertoire - S
  11. :::: Have had an initial go, thoughts? — Jon (talk)
  12. ::::: Good start, maybe mention some of the makers and more famous composers (Verdi, Bartók)? - S
  13. ::: Including infobox things here:
  14. :::: Arguably "Wind Woodwind" is not necessary since woodwind is linked above. I think you can remove these but keep "single-reed" - S
  15. ::::: have indicated a classification heirarchy, but this is not done on other instrument pages, so maybe you're right? — Jon (talk)
  16. :::::: I think the arrows work quite well as a compromise, not entirely sure on the MOS for this - S
  17. :::: Clarinet might not be needed to be linked in "related instruments" since clarinet family is linked below. If it is kept, I would like a link to Bb clarinet or Bb clarinet specifically - S
  18. ::::: Done (fixed other things here too) — Jon (talk)
  19. :: §History:
  20. ::: Could we have links to the musicologists mentioned in the first sentence? - S
  21. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  22. ::: "Small" should be in italics, not quotes per MOS:WAW - S
  23. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  24. ::: {{tq|Of the three highest and smallest "octave" clarinets [...] only 28 centimetres (11 in) long}}: I think a split is called for after "bands" - S
  25. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  26. ::::: Much better, thanks - S
  27. :: §Construction:
  28. ::: Wiki-link mouthpiece and bell - S
  29. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  30. ::: {{tq|larger clarinets, or even}}: this last comma seems a bit too much separation - S
  31. :::: Have reworded sentence for hopefully better clarity. — Jon (talk)
  32. :: §Repertoire:
  33. ::: Do we need to know that go featured other tangentially related instruments? - S
  34. :::: Maybe not, but it's kind of fun... Vérifications also has piccolo, musette and Casio SK-1 — Jon (talk)
  35. ::::: I think it's fine on reflection - S
  36. ::: I think the contemporary works list is unnecessary since its already in prose form - S
  37. :::: Me too, fixed, moved Vérifications into prose — Jon (talk)
  38. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
  39. :a (reference section): {{GAList/check|y}} b (inline citations to reliable sources): {{GAList/check|y}} c (OR): {{GAList/check|y}} d (copyvio and plagiarism): {{GAList/check|y}}
  40. :: No copyvio found in internet sources with Earwig's - S
  41. :: Source spot checks for copyvio and text-source integrity (copyvio only checked when mentioned):
  42. ::: Ref 2 (Shackleton 2001): pass for verifiability. Maybe consider mentioning that Shackleton also calls these octave clarinets - S
  43. :::: He clarifies later that Tschaikov (p43) clarifies that "octave" clarinets refer to the three highest in A B♭ and C, an octave above the more common regular-sized (soprano) clarinets in those keys.
  44. ::: Ref 3 (Lawson 1995): pass for verifiability - S
  45. ::: Ref 4 (Baines 1977): pass for verifiability - S
  46. ::: Ref 5a&b (Rice 2017): both passes for verifiability - S
  47. ::: Ref 6 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability, perhaps also mention he calls them "little" at some points - S
  48. :::: Done — Jon (talk)
  49. ::: Ref 9 (Rice 2017): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S
  50. ::: Ref 10 (Forsyth 1914): pass for verifiability - S
  51. ::: Ref 11 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio, though is there any reason not to use the given spelling of picksüsses Hölzl (or picksüßes Hölzl as is given in other sources)? - S
  52. :::: Fixed, as in the cited ref — Jon (talk)
  53. ::: Ref 14a&b (Baines 1977): a is a fail for verifiability but a pass for copyvio, page doesn't mention any time-frames or countries with regards to military bands. b is also a fail for verifiability for aforementioned reasons and as it doesn't mention doubling the piccolo flute line, only being able to play into piccolo range - S
  54. :::: That's because for 14a I was using the wrong ref (now 11b, Tschaikov 1995 p.53), and for now I can't remember where I read that it largely copies the piccolo line in band parts, but I will find it and update the other ref (for now, ref 15) — Jon (talk)
  55. :::: I've given up on the piccolo factoid; I can't recall where I read it at the time, and now can't find it. — Jon (talk)
  56. ::: Ref 16 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S
  57. ::: Ref 18 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S
  58. :: Can we have author-links for Nicholas Shackleton, Colin Lawson, Cecil Forsyth and Anthony Baines? - S
  59. ::: Done — Jon (talk)
  60. :: "Hans-Joachim Hespos website", "website" is not needed - S
  61. ::: Done — Jon (talk)
  62. :: What makes The Clarinet BBoard a reliable source? - S
  63. ::: It really isn't, but I have been hoping to find this in a more reliable place, without luck so far. Can always remove/revise the claim I suppose. — Jon (talk)
  64. :::: Unless a better source can be found, I think the statement should be removed - S
  65. ::::: Rephrased, cites a Leblanc museum specimen built 1983 — Jon (talk)
  66. :: YouTube and Discogs are unreliable and shouldn't be used to support that text - S
  67. ::: Moved to §External links — Jon (talk)
  68. :: The first paragraph of §Construction and the last of §Repertoire need citations - S
  69. ::: Reworked the last repertoire paragraph, found a choir history article and Cailliet Grove entry. There's literally nothing written about the construction of A♭ clarinets, but at least the one-piece body segment is self-evident from photos in manufacturer catalogs/websites, and I'm thinking it's bordering on WP:SKYBLUE? Have used a web-ref to an example museum item which states the obvious.
  70. :: When the publisher is Cambridge University Press, the location isn't needed - S
  71. ::: Fixed — Jon (talk)
  72. It is broad in its coverage.
  73. :a (major aspects): {{GAList/check|y}} b (focused): {{GAList/check|y}}
  74. :: Although short, the article holds up when compared to other literature (Cambridge Companion, Grove, etc.) - S
  75. :: I was hesitant on the inclusion of other piccolo here, but on reflection I think this is fine. It makes sense to address them as well in this article - S
  76. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
  77. :Fair representation without bias: {{GAList/check|y}}
  78. :: Not sure how you could be biased towards a clarinet, but the articles seems neutral. Bias is not present when discussing makers - S
  79. It is stable.
  80. :No edit wars, etc.: {{GAList/check|y}}
  81. :: Just a question here, is the content dispute detailed at talk page section "Military bands and composers in Italy" completely over? A simple yes/no is fine - S
  82. ::: I'm not certain; it's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something, and I'd be interested what Mscuthbert thinks about things. — Jon (talk)
  83. :::: Seeing as the user is inactive and it was quite a while ago, I'm AGFing this criterion and passing it - S
  84. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
  85. :a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): {{GAList/check|y}} b (appropriate use with suitable captions): {{GAList/check|y}}
  86. :: Images tagged properly with CC licenses - S
  87. :: Is there any way to get a non-free sound file here, or an external link to an appropriate site? - S
  88. ::: {{ping|Mscuthbert}} would you be interested in recording something for the article? Otherwise I haven't been able to find anything on Commons or elsewhere that is compatibly-licensed (public domain, CC, etc.) — Jon (talk)
  89. :: Can a better picture of reeds be found than :File:B-flat e-flat a-flat reeds.jpg, which looks quite low quality? - S
  90. ::: {{ping|Mscuthbert}} I don't think it's that bad, but could you take another photo of your reeds? I'm assuming Schminnte means the reflection/glare. — Jon (talk)
  91. :: Per MOS:CAPLENGTH, a caption is not needed for this infobox photo - S
  92. ::: Done — Jon (talk)
  93. :: Caption 3: {{tq|Note the greater difference in size between A♭ and E♭ than between E♭ and B♭}}: why should we note this? It isn't mentioned in text and seems unnecessary to say. - S
  94. ::: Fair enough. — Jon (talk)
  95. Overall:
  96. :Pass/Fail: {{GAList/check|y}}
  97. ::

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