Talk:Bengaluru#Requesting move from Bangalore to Bengaluru

:The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. As it's a marginal close, I'm going to hold off on effecting the move for a few days in case somebody wants to discuss the close further with me, but – for the meanwhile, I believe there ultimately exists a consensus for the move.

First off, whilst previous RMs may be indicative, they are not permanently binding. It has been over a year since the last substantive discussion, and responding with "nothing has changed" when there is a solid argument to the negative just sounds like opposition for the sake of. This article is in that category of post-colonial name changes which take years to reach a tipping point, and it's a judgment call as to when exactly that happens, so it makes sense to keep revisiting the issue every so often.

For the sake of WP:COMMONNAME, arguments can be made that both "Bangalore" and "Bengaluru" are the most common name. But there are some considerations in COMMONNAME that can lean one way or the other, and it is only through discussion and evidence – instead of thought-terminating cliches – that we can reach the answer.

On the one hand, the historical context and Google Trends leans towards "Bangalore". However, the analysis provided by User:Skarmory indicates that reliable sources are now breaking towards in favour of "Bengaluru" – heavily so in the case of some newswires – to the point that even the Daily Telegraph – which has a known conservative outlook – is using it.

WP:MPN explicitly, and WP:COMMONNAME implicitly, indicates that RSes are what determines "common" usage. WP:NAMECHANGES also indicates that the sway RSes have over the question decay over time. This is why the Kiev → Kyiv move took place quickly in 2022; after the Russian invasion, RSes changed almost on a dime, and even though "Kiev" probably prevails when you ask the man-on-the-street, "Kyiv" definitely prevails in RSes.

Finally, WP:TITLEVAR also lends itself towards a move. It seems rather evident that "Bengaluru" is now the predominant term in Indian English, and as this is an article about an Indian city, then long-standing guidelines tell us we should be using Indian English wherever possible. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

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:Bangalore → {{no redirect|Bengaluru}} – Hello, I would like to highlight a previously closed proposal to move the article from Bangalore to Bengaluru. The last discussion was closed due to lack of evidence. The official name of the city is Bengaluru and is also the common use.

Below are the evidences.

As per WP:NAMECHANGES

• https://web.archive.org/web/20120406020325/http://archive.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/oct82006/index2044162006107.asp
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/bangalore-becomes-bengaluru-11-other-cities-renamed/articleshow/45002333.cms
• https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/it-is-official-bangalore-becomes-bengaluru/articleshow/45000684.cms
• https://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/bangalore-is-now-bengaluru-114110100927_1.html
• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29845215

As per WP:COMMONNAME

• https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/bengaluru-used-to-be-a-magical-city-for-urban-ecology-but-not-so-anymore/article68805101.ece
• https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/britains-king-charles-on-a-personal-visit-to-bengaluru-6905225
• https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/bengalurus-second-international-airport-kunigal-emerging-as-front-runner-report-101729240799715.html
• https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/south-bengaluru-likely-to-get-city-s-second-international-airport-3239145
• https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/mpox-cases-bengaluru-airport-starts-mandatory-monkeypox-testing-for-international-passengers/articleshow/113378881.cms
• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-68509409

Please let me know if any more evidence needs to be provided. Manthara^talk 19:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 06:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Raladic (talk) 16:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Manthara has listed many Indian outlets, and BBC, using Bengaluru commonly. Bengaluru is also now the common name in other non-Indian outlets, e.g. [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/31/world/asia/india-bangalore-water.html New York Times], [https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/may/22/india-bengaluru-heatwaves-climate-inequalities-cities-planning-informal-workers The Guardian], [https://www.reuters.com/world/india/rain-batters-indias-bengaluru-renews-haphazard-expansion-concerns-2024-10-23/ Reuters], and [https://apnews.com/article/bengaluru-water-crisis-climate-change-india-17554235dba0741a266f2251b91aec8f Associated Press]. The move is very long overdue. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 05:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The evidence is strong and the sources don't even qualify Bengaluru with an "also known as" or a "formerly known as". The common name has clearly shifted. RegentsPark (comment) 19:46, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support -- long overdue.zoglophie^•talk• 12:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - The most recent substantive discussion of this name change was in June 2023: Talk:Bengaluru/Archive_8#Requested_move_20_June_2023. It doesn't look like the Google Trends have changed since that discussion, but non-Indian outlets may have adjusted their editorial policies. From a quick look, it seems that e.g. the New York Times uses both almost every time it is discussed; try to Google "site:nytimes.com bangalore after:2023-01-01" for example. Suriname0 (talk) 15:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• :Indian websites such as Hindustan Times are still using the old name at some places.
• :* https://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/bangalore
• :* https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/bangalore-weather-today-aqi-and-rain-forecast-updates-november-3-2024-101730597407584.html
• :Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:45, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::You can check the count of new articles with the changed name.
• ::https://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/Bengaluru
• ::Even the article that you have quoted is using the new name. Manthara^talk 12:23, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, for reasons listed by nominator and other users above (including WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:COMMONNAME). It genuinely seems like the common name has shifted in reliable sources. Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Long overdue, our refusal to use the new name is becoming embarassing as so many sources change their own usage. We should strongly favour the usage in Indian English-language sources per WP:TIES, and use of Bengaluru is overwhelming in such sources, as it is increasingly in other sources as well. AusLondonder (talk) 00:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Is there any evidence that the WP:COMMONNAME has changed? The evidence presented so far is merely isolated examples of the name being used - and searching Google News, the systematic review I posted last time this was discussed appears to still apply, which [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bangalore%2CBengaluru&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2CBangalore%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CBengaluru%3B%2Cc0 ngrams] also still shows a clear preference for Bangalore. BilledMammal (talk) 12:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• : {{ping|BilledMammal|Vestrian24Bio|LindsayH}} If you go by ngrams, you'll have to move [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Calcutta%2CKolkata&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3 Kolkata back to Calcutta] and and [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bombay%2CMumbai&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3 Mumbai to Bombay]; they still show the old names above! (zoom in the Bombay/Mumbai results to start for 2000 to see it more clearly, as they're close in later years). Similarly for Google Trends, they still have [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=kiev,kyiv&hl=en-GB Kiev above Kyiv worldwide]. Yet, that's not what we have for Wikipedia article titles. What actually matters is the usage in reliable and prominent sources, such as international and specially national sources (because of WP:TIES). They ought to be considered, much more seriously. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 14:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::@TryKid per this [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=kolkata,calcutta&hl=en-GB Google Trends report], Kolkata is the most searched and Calcutta only accounts for 1-3%. As per this [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=mumbai,bombay&hl=en-GB Google Trends report], similarly Mumbai is the most searched and Bombay accounts for 6-7% only. Thus, Kolkata and Mumbai are the WP:COMMONNAMES.
• ::Just like that here Bangalore is the WP:COMMONNAME. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 15:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::What about Kyiv? This just shows that there is precedence to move the page against the Google Trend data. Manthara^talk 17:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :I am also not sure how valuable your "systematic review" is. You don't tell us what date range they're from: if you've considered recent usage or all mentions from any period, and the surveyed newspapers seem to be randomly selected from various countries like Canada and Cambodia. Consider manually selecting recent coverage in prominent sources in India, and internationally prominent sources that consistently cover India. Automatic and broad sweeps of databases that might contain a lot of artificially generated junk, such as Google News, isn't helpful. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 14:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :: Originally 2022, and today I've validated that the results still apply.
• :: The sources also aren't random; they're papers of record, and policy requires us to consider a global perspective. BilledMammal (talk) 14:37, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: Based on the [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bangalore,bengaluru&hl=en-GB Google Trends report for last 365 days], Bangalore is the more searched. April 2024 where it had the peek, the old name accounts for 80% while the new name is only 20%; given the 4:1 ratio, Bangalore is the WP:COMMONNAME.Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 12:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :How does search engine data outweigh reliable sources? AusLondonder (talk) 17:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::Exactly! Search engine data is highly optimised for SEO. Companies and Media outlets intentionally use keywords to get more clicks. The evidence should be based on reliable sources not Search Engine data. Manthara^talk 17:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support It's high time that name is changed to official name. It is adopted in most of the places by this time. Like Prayagraj, Chennai, Mumbai, Ayodhya etc. -Vijethnbharadwaj (talk) 13:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Silly to say things like "long overdue", when it is clearly not an obvious change; evidence given by Vestrian and BilledMammal makes clear it's at best evenly balanced. In time, more than likely, the change will be completely the common name, but it doesn't seem to be there yet, quite. Therefore, against mine expectation, Oppose. ~ Lindsay^Hello 14:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: per [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%201-H&q=bangalore,bengaluru&hl=en-GB Google trends] and [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bangalore%2CBengaluru&year_start=2016&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false Ngrams 2016-2022], both still shows "Bengalore" as more commonly used than "Bengaluru". Ckfasdf (talk) 14:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :Again, irrelevant dataset that too is outdated by 2 years. Manthara^talk 17:39, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Procedural speedy close: The same proposed renaming has been rejected in 14 previous formal RMs. The last one was only six months ago, and nothing dramatic has happened since then and a few cherry-picked sources are not significant evidence (e.g., the second listed source is from 10 years ago). Simple statistical searches seem to show continued use of the current article name. People shouldn't be able to get their way by just wearing other people down with repeated insistence. Please give it a rest for a few years before trying this again. We shouldn't have to keep repeating this discussion this often. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :Ever wondered why there is a repeated insistence? Because we live in this city and we know the ground reality. The sources listed which are 10 years ago are evidences for WP:NAMECHANGES. The sources cited are not cherry picked, I can cite more articles from reliable sources both Indian and International media outlets which is using the changed name. Manthara^talk 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::To me it also seems a matter of respect. When a city is renamed, by a democratic government and the name is adopted by the people, why should we say "sorry, no I prefer your old name"? It's just disrespectful and condescending. AusLondonder (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::Yup, that too after providing enough evidence. People want to speedy close this for some reason when there is overwhelming support for the move. Manthara^talk 17:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::If you want to play the game of {{tq|we live in this city and we know the ground reality}} or {{tq|disrespectful and condescending}} you probably need to go and find another community to play it in. Here we work within the bounds of our policies and guidelines, and use evidence (as opposed to anecdotes/personal experience) to find consensus. Secondly, saying that {{tq|[p]eople want to speedy close this for some reason when there is overwhelming support for the move}} is certainly not assuming good faith when a reasonable reason for a speedy close has been given (too soon after the latest [of how many?] move requests has been turned down); and i say this as someone not agreeing with a speedy close, though i agree that there probably should have been a moratorium on these requests. ~ Lindsay^Hello 19:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::I am not playing any game, I was just responding to BarrelProof's comment on repeated insistence for the move. I am working within the policy. I have provided evidences based on WP:NAMECHANGES, WP:COMMONNAME and also the article qualifies on WP:TIES and WP:TITLEVAR. The last discussion was closed as the nominator did not provide any evidence. That should not be a reason for speedy closing this discussion. Manthara^talk 19:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Per WP:TITLEVAR "If a topic has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation, the title of its article should use that nation's variety of English." We should use the name most common in Indian English-language sources. AusLondonder (talk) 17:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy close. This has reached the point where we'll need a moratorium. O.N.R. ^(talk) 17:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :You can't just speedy close because the proposal is getting support. AusLondonder (talk) 17:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: These "statistical searches" and "systematic analyses" that keep getting trouted out every RM are pretty much worthless. If Banglore is actually the common name, editors shouldn't have any trouble showing actual articles from prominent sources in India or Anglosphere countries that use Bangalore and not Bengaluru. Pretty much every single outlet that I can think of has Bengaluru: [https://www.ft.com/content/8e9dd393-9f2a-4770-8274-bd6065c59ed7 Financial Times], [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-27/india-s-tech-boom-has-fueled-bangalore-s-growth Bloomberg], [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/23/india-building-collapse-bengaluru/05ef44f0-9112-11ef-b5b1-75167840d9f3_story.html Washington Post], and on and on. Instead of posting dubious numbers from aggregators with unknown data quality, can editors actually post articles demonstrating so from the supposed newspapers still using Bangalore more? regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 17:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per recent mainstream media results which still use the older name.[https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/bangalore-weather-today-aqi-and-rain-forecast-updates-november-2-2024-101730511007196.html][https://www.outlooktraveller.com/destinations/india/top-things-to-do-in-bangalore-this-weekend-3][https://www.financialexpress.com/market/commodities-petrol-diesel-price-today-1-november-2024-in-bangalore-new-delhi-lucknow-nashik-noida-3654004/] Orientls (talk) 18:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :The link for the Hindustan Times article itself says "bengaluru-news". Financial Express is using Bengaluru in the recent articles * https://www.financialexpress.com/sports/ind-vs-nz-3rd-test-day-3-new-zealand-defeat-india-by-25-runs-secure-3-0-series-clean-sweep/3655344/ Outlook Traveller is not a reliable source. Manthara^talk 18:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::It seems Outlook Traveller is associated with the Outlook magazine, which pretty much always seems to use Bengaluru! They have it as the [https://business.outlookindia.com/topic/bengaluru topic tag]. All the links using Bangalore posted above have a listicle quality to them, and aren't serious long-form articles. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 18:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::Outlook Traveller was not listed in WP:RSPSOURCES, hence thought it might be non reliable. Nevertheless, like general consensus it just shows Bengaluru is being used. Manthara^talk 18:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::No, you're right. I didn't mean to imply Outlook Traveller is reliable; it at least doesn't seem to be at the first glance I gave it. It's a different brand using a different website, just being associated with the magazine doesn't make it reliable. I was pointing out that the "parent" magazine used Bengaluru, the Traveller article looks like AI generated low quality SEO stuff. regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 19:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support as per WP:NAMECHANGES, WP:TITLEVAR "Bangalore" and "Bengaluru" is same name, "Bengaluru" is just spelling correction, non Indian sources also started to use Indian English version of the name. The article Prayagraj also using new name from earlier "Allahabad" which is complete new name, unlike this "Bangalore" to "Bengaluru" spelling correction.RI talk 18:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock - Ratnahastin (talk) 08:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Adding more international sources using the Bengaluru name:
• [https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/building-collapses-heavy-rains-southern-india-city-killing-115055194 ABC News (United States)]
• [https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/biggest-upset-of-the-century-new-zealand-complete-famous-3-0-sweep-over-india-20241103-p5knjo.html The Age]
• [https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/building-collapses-after-record-downpour-floods-indias-bengaluru/video/00063a15b48ce7a515d58cd40a3a7b68 The Australian]
• [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/30/asia/king-charles-queen-camilla-india-private-visit-intl-scli/index.html CNN]
• [https://www.forbes.com/sites/timellis/2024/10/21/rohit-sharma-remains-calm-as-new-zealand-poke-the-indian-bear/ Forbes]
• [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/india-ap-building-bengaluru-police-b2634009.html The Independent]
• [https://mg.co.za/business/2024-02-05-cape-town-to-mint-6100-new-millionaires-in-projected-wealth-boom/ Mail & Guardian]
• [https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/india-is-likely-undercounting-heat-deaths-affecting-its-response-to-increasingly-harsh-heat-waves National Post]
• [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/india-new-delhi-air-pollution-fireworks-diwali-rcna177755 NBC News]
• [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/black-caps-v-india-world-media-reacts-as-black-caps-claim-first-3-0-series-win-in-india/OKWJWMYUWRCSXBLEUK2UWMIRDQ/ The New Zealand Herald]
  

Also, as many users pointed out the page move should be supported as per WP:TIES and WP:TITLEVAR. Manthara^talk 19:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment let's not speedy close this – there's already enough discussion to warrant keeping this discussion going. A moratorium can be discussed afterwards if this doesn't pass.

:Anyway, some pure google hit totals over the past year like I provided in the June 2023 discussion:

::"Bengaluru" (normal google search since July 1, 2023) – 84,500,000

::"Bangalore" (normal google search since July 1, 2023) – 99,500,000

::

::"Bengaluru" (normal google search since November 1, 2014) – 190,000,000

::"Bangalore" (normal google search since November 1, 2014) – 327,000,000

::

::"Bengaluru" (google books search since December 31, 2022) – 16,600

::"Bangalore" (google books search since December 31, 2022) – 3,070

::

::"Bengaluru" (google books search since November 1, 2014) – 93,600

::"Bangalore" (google books search since November 1, 2014) – 294,000

::

::"Bengaluru" (google scholar search of 2023–2024) – 18,000

::"Bangalore" (google scholar search of 2023–2024) – 21,000 (this seems to hit on a few fairly prolific author names)

::

::"Bengaluru" (google scholar search of 2015–2024) – 68,600

::"Bangalore" (google scholar search of 2015–2024) – 228,000 (same problem as the 2023–2024 search)

:These numbers aren't the most reliable, and I don't find them too useful, but compared to last RM there does seem to be a shift towards use of Bengaluru; notably, the gap in results in the same ~year is a lot smaller now, and looking at google books searches since the start of 2023 (it wouldn't let me shrink the range any further) Bengaluru seems to be significantly ahead. Do with them what you will. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Lean Oppose for now, but we are getting closer to "Bengaluru" being common internationally. We may need a clarification on how much to weigh the "Indian English" aspect, as it seems to be more common in Indian English-language sources now. BilCat (talk) 23:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• :WP:TIES provides Mumbai as an example for Indian English, I assume that would apply in Bengaluru's case well. Manthara^talk 08:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::Examples aren't the policy, hence the need for clarification. BilCat (talk) 01:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::I know. I am just saying there is precedent. Manthara^talk 02:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::It's not accepted as a precedent. That's partly why this article hasn't been moved yet. BilCat (talk) 04:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::::That's Intresting. Can you please explain why that wouldn't qualify as precedent? Manthara^talk 07:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::::::The precedent has been rejected in 14 not moved discussions since 2008. BilCat (talk) 05:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::For what it's worth, WP:MPN rejects that idea. A couple things mentioned in that guideline are the [https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/india/#geography CIA World Factbook] (uses Bangalore) and other encyclopedias ([https://www.britannica.com/place/Bangalore-India Britannica] uses Bengaluru). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose & Speedy close — We have been through this over 14 times already, nothing here persuades me that Bengaluru is a more common name than Bangalore. In fact Bangalore still remains much more common than Bengaluru — Bangalore is more common in [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bangalore%2C+Bengaluru+&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3 ngram comparison],[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Bengaluru,Bangalore&hl=en-GB last 12 months comparison in google trends] shows Bangalore as the dominant name, [https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=2da342831ce4f6e8&sxsrf=ADLYWIKHa33MK4vJlMM8UWkIhSlShWL08Q%3A1730657006552&q=Bangalore&tbm=bks 7,280,000 hits for Bangalore] vs [https://www.google.com/search?q=Bengaluru&sca_esv=2da342831ce4f6e8&biw=1128&bih=2053&tbm=bks 152,000 hits for Bengaluru] in Google books, [https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=2da342831ce4f6e8&sxsrf=ADLYWII1QvX14QAMtFL4_N02XT2a-2H__w:1730657193626&q=bangalore&tbm=nws 1,020,000 hits for Bangalore] vs [https://www.google.com/search?q=bengaluru&sca_esv=2da342831ce4f6e8&biw=1128&bih=2053&tbm=nws 62,900 hits for Bengaluru] in Google news. Even after using the past year option in the news search, Bangalore still got 45,100,000 hits while Bengaluru only got 26,400,000 hits [https://www.google.com/search?q=bangalore&sca_esv=a74e3a6c87ea0c1f&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ADLYWIJfxYzhzkHzdKWRcAI7HLBjCDBJtA:1730659410638&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisxJfb6MCJAxUXsFYBHUdfDu0QpwV6BAgBEAs&biw=1128&bih=2053&dpr=2.64][https://www.google.com/search?q=bengaluru&sca_esv=a74e3a6c87ea0c1f&biw=1128&bih=2053&tbs=qdr%3Ay&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ADLYWILSH_RRldG6I8ak8FgzPpl7nBSbBg%3A1730659420622&ei=XMQnZ4nXJZ2b0-kP07LwgAo&oq=Beng&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiBEJlbmcqAggAMgoQABiABBhDGIoFMgsQABiABBixAxiDATILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwEyDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigUyCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBMgoQABiABBhDGIoFMgoQABiABBhDGIoFMgsQABiABBixAxiDATIIEAAYgAQYsQMyChAAGIAEGEMYigVIkRhQAFinCHABeACQAQCYAZEEoAHACaoBBzAuNC41LTG4AQHIAQD4AQGYAgWgAo4KqAIAwgIOEAAYgAQYkQIYsQMYigWYAwqSBwcwLjQuNC0xoAe3Gg&sclient=gws-wiz-news]. So the argument that the common name has shifted falls apart. I would also propose a moratorium on making repeated RMs regarding this for a year, as it has always proven itself to be a waste of community time and effort.Ratnahastin (talk) 02:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• :At this point, it's not eligible for a speedy close. It's run for four days, and has genuine support comments. BilCat (talk) 02:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• :So, you will deliberately ignore all the reliable sources using the new name and rely on Google searches to come to an conclusion? Manthara^talk 02:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• ::{{ping|Manthara}} Perhaps you should stop bludgeoning this discussion and badgering editors who hold an opposing view point with these baseless aspersions. Ratnahastin (talk) 03:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• :::You are the one not acting in good faith by deliberately wanting the RM to speedy close while there is significant support for the move. Let evidences decide the RM and not your previous bais. Manthara^talk 04:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment If Google trends and hits is the solo criteria for article title than what is the need of other policies and lengthy discussions? RI talk 08:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• :They aren't – the only reason I provided the hit totals is because I did last time, and it's worth looking at how they've shifted since. I don't think they're that powerful of a tool when the numbers are so finnicky. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Certainly not the common name. Just the name that the Indian government would like it to be called. Not the same thing at all. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: I have previously commented on this issue. Firstly, Ngrams cut off at 2022, and the very clear trendline suggests that "Bengaluru" must outnumber "Bangalore" by now, but that's not totally certain, so we must wait until certainty. On the other hand, "Bengaluru" is just the correct transliteration of "Bangalore" (Kyiv vs Keiv) and not something like a new made-up word. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} — Preceding undated comment added 17:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• : Weak Support per the discussion below. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: The Google search results show a trend of decline between the usage of [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Bengaluru%22+-Wikipedia+-Bangalore&lr=lang_en&safe=off&sca_esv=5c8e479236d2424c&hl=en&tbas=0&biw=1360&bih=631&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A5%2F4%2F2024%2Ccd_max%3A11%2F4%2F2024&tbm= Bengaluru] and [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Bangalore%22+-Wikipedia+-Bengaluru&lr=lang_en&safe=off&sca_esv=5c8e479236d2424c&hl=en&tbas=0&biw=1360&bih=631&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A5%2F4%2F2024%2Ccd_max%3A11%2F4%2F2024&tbm= Bangalore]. I highly believe that the usage of the old name is to boost the SEO rankings of the sites and has very less to do with the common usage.

:

Manthara^talk 17:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• I want to also point out the WP:CRITERIA, since it's a relevant part of move discussions and it hasn't really been discussed.

:# Recognizability – sort of what the discussion hinges on, whether people will recognize the name Bengaluru.

:# Naturalness – pretty equal, I think?

:# Precision – equal

:# Concision – equal

:# Consistency – other articles will follow this one

:Doesn't seem like there's much of a gap, and it really comes down to recognizability/the common name/usage in reliable sources (at least for me). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

::I believe it ticks the Recognizability box as well. Almost all reliable sources have already been using Bengaluru in their articles, which I presume wouldn't be the case if the name was not recognizable. Manthara^talk 20:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The suggested target is still not the clear common usage among English-language speakers. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support as per WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:COMMONNAME. Bengaluru is more related to Indian English. Every name of the organization that has the name of the city, included "Bengaluru" instead of "Bangalore".---Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 05:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• For the Google Trends question, I'm going to note [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Bengaluru,%2Fm%2F09c17&hl=en-GB this graph]. It seems that Google somehow differentiates searches for the city and "Bengaluru" as a search term, though I have no idea how, and the gap is extreme (which you do not see with cities like [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Mumbai,%2Fm%2F04vmp&hl=en-GB Mumbai] and [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0cvw9,Kolkata&hl=en-GB Kolkata]). It's still [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F09c17,Bangalore&hl=en-GB very tight] between Bengaluru's city searches and Bangalore, and the graph actually seems to track better with Mumbai and Kolkata's, which makes me personally inclined to believe the common search is for Bangalore (I guess it's not that surprising, because it's not like the results for Bengaluru and Bangalore as search terms would change when we introduce a third search term). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

::The one thing I'd like to see more info on is usage in news articles. All we really have right now is some individual news articles, and a little more for one source (Hindustan Times), which is just not enough info to make any determinations. I don't think I can come to a clear position on this move request without more complete info there. An analysis along these lines was done during the 2022 move discussion, but I'm not entirely sure how to replicate it, and I just don't feel like doing it right this moment. I'll try to get around to it in the next couple days, unless someone beats me to it. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose and suggest a six month moratorium before the next RM. If what is said above is mainly true, then an RM in six months will succeed with little if any opposition, but it may not and that would also tell us something. Meantime we all have better things to do. See also Andrew's Principle. Andrewa (talk) 09:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: Hey @Skarmory, Thank you for the idea. I have compiled the data for the last year of the same Newspaper of record used in 2022 RM. I have used the suggestion given by @Suriname0 to find these results. (site:latimes.com bengaluru after:2023-10-31 & site:latimes.com bangalore after:2023-10-31). Below are the results:

:

Apart from The Gleaner and The Irish Times all other newspapers are using Bengaluru as common name. The reason I believe Gleaner is still using the last name is because of reporting of the IPL the team Royal Challengers Bangalore, who changed their name to Bengaluru only in 2024.{{cite|url=https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/bangalore-becomes-bengaluru-as-rcb-announce-change-in-team-name-1425426?platform=amp|title="'Bangalore' becomes 'Bengaluru' as RCB announce change in team name"|date=2024-04-19}}

Manthara^talk 11:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

:Some others to add, from (mostly international) news sources mentioned during this discussion:

::

:Not really sure why a couple of these have such extreme numbers (they might be discardable), but there's a clear trend here regardless. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

::It makes sense for Hindustan Times to have such extreme numbers as it is an Indian outlet and covers the news from the city. Not sure about Reuters. Manthara^talk 05:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• I'm going to ultimately Support given the news article evidence. Overall, I think I see enough evidence to say the needle for the common name has ticked over to Bengaluru, and I think with everything else also fairly even, WP:NAMECHANGES also supports the move. Maybe some evidence could be stronger, but it's enough for me to give my support. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:* Oppose - Somewhat regretfully. I do see sources trending towards the new spelling, however ngrams still far prefer Bangalore[https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=bangalore%2C+bengaluru&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3], though they are narrowing up in recent years. Combined with the Google Trends evidence provided above, and the fact that news results return 1.28 million results for Bangalore and only 145,000 for Bengaluru, I personally don't believe that WP:COMMONNAME is satisfied. - estar8806 (talk) ★ 14:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:*:ngram data is 2 years old, there is some mess up in the Google Trends data as pointed out by @Skarmory. The search term Bengaluru and city name Bengaluru gives very different results. [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Bangalore,%2Fm%2F09c17&hl=en-US] Manthara^talk 14:33, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support clear case of WP:TITLEVAR—blindlynx 21:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - I find User:Skarmory's evidence from a few major publications convincing. If this is premature, it's close enough to the "true" inflection point that other considerations (e.g. WP:MODERNPLACENAME, WP:TITLEVAR) break the tie in favor of adopting the modern name. Suriname0 (talk) 20:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• :For clarity, I was intending to refer to User:Manthara's evidence. Suriname0 (talk) 20:05, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - Standings as of 14th Nov 2024.

:

Manthara^talk 12:37, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:Remember that move requests are not a vote. O.N.R. ^(talk) 12:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• I know it has been pointed out before and ignored, but i feel the need to mention the bludgeoning going on in this discussion. Since it was opened, the revision history shows that one editor has made 31 out of 95 edits, that's just about a third, and probably more than necessary. Over the years, i have noticed that people who bludgeon tend to have two motives: They have an issue with consensus (i.e., they don't believe in it or believe it is against them) or they fear/feel their evidence is weak and needs bolstering by repetition. I have no idea if either of these is true this time; i will note, however, that the best response to a suggestion that you are bludgeoning is to be silent and prove the suggestion-maker wrong. That didn't happen {{diff|Talk Bangalore|1255292449|1255282650|the previous time}} it was brought up, but i strongly suggest that this discussion be allowed to end without any further heavy-handed comments ~ Lindsay^Hello 13:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:There's only {{tq|25 people in discussion}} as of now (including the nom), but there are 26 people listed in this table. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 13:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

::I counted again, it's 26! Manthara^talk 15:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Then why does the section header says otherwise,

File:RM Header - 2024.11.14.jpeg

::: Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 18:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

::::Because apparently I had forgotten to add timestamp to my comment (3 tildes instead of 4). Fixed now. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:Relisting comment: Relisting as discussion is still very active, but reminder that RM discussions are not a WP:VOTE and WP:AT are determined based on reliable source usage. Please add new comments below. Raladic (talk) 16:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, per Estar8806, if there is disagreement over which name is more popular then it is better to stick with the status quo. Sahaib (talk) 12:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support based on usage in reliable sources. It is evident that an overwhelming majority of national/international news outlets now refer to the city as Bengaluru. Plain Google Trends data can always be skewed and doesn't tell us anything useful; Google Trends shows that [https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=saigon,ho%20chi%20minh%20city&hl=en-GB Saigon is more commonly searched than Ho Chi Minh City], but the Wikipedia page is at Ho Chi Minh City. The arguments opposing the move based on the number of previously failed RMs are unconvincing because what the common name was during the 2008 or 2017 discussions is irrelevant here. Usage in reliable sources appears to have flipped in the last couple of years, so this RM (and any future RM) needs to be considered on its own merit. Yuvaank (talk) 10:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES and MOS:TIES. The sources put up in this discussion are convincing to me that usage in reliable sources has shifted in favour of Bengaluru. We should be prioritising sources from after the change, which favour the new name. I'm not convinced by arguments that this has been relitigated too much - only one other move request has been carried out in the past year and a bit, which is hardly excessive. Turnagra (talk) 18:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

::Maybe only one other in the last year, but 15 so far for the same proposed renaming. 15 is a lot. Has that record ever been surpassed for any article on Wikipedia? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:::I would be very interested in seeing a list of proposals by number of repeat attempts. Like the list at WP:PERENNIAL, but eventually enacted. Suriname0 (talk) 19:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Celia et al. Didn't even know what Bengaluru was until today. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• :How is your knowledge (or lack thereof) of Bengaluru relevant to this discussion? Yuvaank (talk) 16:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)