Talk:Coal power in Turkey

{{ping|User:Chidgk1}} Hi, I have re-arranged content under headings and begun copy editing to improve readability and revise wikilinks (and remove some surplus ones). There is still lots to do. The next stage will be a more thorough review of the parent-child article relationships in each section, to ensure that there is a useful summary in this article of the most relevant points from the linked "main" article. After that, I propose to further review and enhance the lead, probably just another paragraph.

One area of content location that warrants some further consideration is Subsidies. I note that in the Coal in Turkey article, there is significant content about subsidies for coal-fired electricity generation in this section Coal in Turkey#Subsidies. Options for the location of content about subsidies are:

1. leave all the existing content about subsidies where it is in Coal in Turkey#Subsidies, but just have a summary in Coal power in Turkey
2. move most of the content about subsidies from Coal in Turkey#Subsidies to Coal power in Turkey#Subsidies_and_incentives (a possible justification is that the subsidies are directly relevant to electricity generation, and in particular, the capacity payment is explicitly a mechanism affecting the electricity market, ie the topic of subsidies is firstly a coal-fired electricity generation issue, then a broader coal industry issue)
3. copy the content about subsidies from Coal in Turkey#Subsidies and insert all of it as an excerpt into Coal power in Turkey#Subsidies_and_incentives

What do you think would be best ? Marshelec (talk) 23:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

::I have added several hidden comments in the source text about points that need to be addressed to resolve apparent conflicts in factual data etc.Marshelec (talk) 04:17, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

::::I don't have an opinion about where to put subsidies - do as you think best - but I have tried to resolve the points you made. More welcome. Chidgk1 (talk) 08:56, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

File:Health effects of coal-fired power stations in Turkey 2019.svg

{{ping|User:Chidgk1}}. I have come across the report Chronic coal pollution Turkey (January 2021) from the HEAL group: [https://www.env-health.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Chronic-Coal-Pollution-Turkey_web.pdf]. Publications from this group are cited in various articles related to coal and electricity in Turkey, but there is no direct citation for this report as yet as far as I can see. It seems to be a great source. Content referring to this report could potentially go into: Coal in Turkey, Coal power in Turkey, Air pollution in Turkey, and Electricity sector in Turkey. I could get underway with this if you think it is worthwhile. Are there any sources you are aware of that critique the work published by HEAL ? Is there any "official response" from government ? It looks like this report has received significant coverage in several sources that we could cite. So far, I have found these publications that cite the HEAL report: [https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/27-of-turkeys-health-expenses-stem-from-air-pollution/news], [https://energyandcleanair.org/pollution-from-coal-power-costs-turkey-as-much-as-27-of-its-total-health-expenditure-new-report/], [https://balkangreenenergynews.com/coal-pollution-in-turkey-brings-annual-health-costs-of-up-to-eur-10-9-billion/]. Marshelec (talk) 20:46, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

:: As a learning exercise, I have produced this illustration based on the data in the HEAL report. This is easy to modify if you have any comments. What do you think ?

Marshelec (talk) 00:13, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

::::Oh I thought I had put that report in somewhere - I guess I missed it because of confusing it with a previous report - anyway their previous one was v good so will almost certainly use this too thanks - diagram is great and thanks for using svg - will definitely use - did not spot any tweaks needed on first glance but will take a closer look shortly Chidgk1 (talk) 06:44, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I just noticed that 2020 lignite "base" (maybe means average) LHVs and tonnes bought are shown for a few plants in tables on pages 65 and 70 of http://www.sp.gov.tr/upload/xSPRapor/files/82KiO+TKI_20_FR.pdf

I know we cannot do original research but as the 2020 generation is already on Wikidata do you think if I added that info to Wikidata it would help Climate TRACE estimate CO2 emissions? Maybe I should ask them? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:08, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

{{u|DecarbonizationEngineer}} {{u|Marshelec}} or anyone,

Does it make much difference to local air pollution do you know? Chidgk1 (talk) 15:34, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

: more height will help push coal dust away from local people. coal has mercury which gets into streams, lakes and oceans; and this gets into fish. also, particles get into lungs and cause heart disease. coal causes tremendous health problems.DecarbonizationEngineer (talk) 15:40, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

::This is not my area of expertise, but it seems likely that increased chimney heights will (in general) spread air pollution (especially particulates) further away from the flue. However, gases such as SO2 and NOX are also a major component of the health hazard. One source comments: "With pollutants sometimes traveling thousands of kilometers, air pollution from coal power is a problem for the whole of Europe no matter the source,". This same source says that three coal plants in Turkey are in the top 10 emitters of SO2 across all of Europe. [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/energy/coal/small-no-of-countries-responsible-for-europe-s-air-pollution-from-coal-plants/32770]. I think chimney height is a distraction from the core issue - it only affects the local distribution of the harm caused by air pollution from coal plants, sends pollution to distant places, and probably makes little difference to overall harm. Here is a old source from 1975 on the topic.[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0004698175900050]. Here is a more recent source from 2011 that is definitely worth a look. [https://publicintegrity.org/environment/epa-wants-to-limit-pollution-from-tall-smokestacks/]Marshelec (talk) 20:29, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

::::Thanks both of you. I just added a stack height regulation which seems to be for the small plants in factories. I thought there would be one for large combustion plants (perhaps transcribed from an EU regulation) but as I cannot find one I think that is because it is covered implicitly by the limits on air pollution just above ground level at a certain distance from the plant. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:12, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

{{u|DecarbonizationEngineer}} {{u|Marshelec}} or anyone,

I suspect I am missing proper technical terms for the table I have just added. For example I guess one of the columns is referring to whether the storage pond is lined or unlined? And other headings and entries in "other" I must have translated wrong too? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:41, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

: i don't know much about coalDecarbonizationEngineer (talk) 15:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

https://ipc.sabanciuniv.edu/Content/Images/CKeditorImages/20211103-20111678.pdf

{{Talk:Coal power in Turkey/GA1}}

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https://caneurope.org/content/uploads/2023/08/Milas-Beyond-Coal.docx.pdf Chidgk1 (talk) 19:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)