Talk:Genocide of indigenous peoples#rfc 6A5350F

Re: the NPOV tag. The section title here, which denotes Palestine AND Israel, speaks for itself. Using UN criteria for genocide, there is zero coverage about the genocidal efforts directed at the people in Israel. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 03:50, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:Add it? Drive by tagging serves no purpose. Selfstudier (talk) 09:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

::Agree. I removed the tag. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:50, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:::I have been active in these debates, RfC's, etc, for some time -- this is not a "drive by tagging", and besides, that comment more than suggests that only some editors are allowed to make edits. Please observe WP:OWN#Types of ownership.   The fact remains, the tag does serves a purpose, as the section in question indeed is one sided, and alerts other editors of the issue. This issue has not been resolved. Please observe When it's appropriate to remove the tag, rather than trying to control the section's narrative. The closer of the RfC clearly maintained — {{tq|"The key policy in this case is WP:NPOV, whose core tenet is "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic"}}. (emphasis added) The whole purpose here, given the controversial nature of the issue, is to discuss how the section can achieve neutrality, first, so as to avoid an edit war. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 16:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

::::I repeat, "Add it" and leave the speeches/lectures at home. Selfstudier (talk) 16:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:::::I have created a separate section for "Israel" since there are no problems with the Palestine section and added an "empty" template" to the new Israel section so that you or anyone may add to it. Kindly desist with POV tagging. Selfstudier (talk) 16:53, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:::::::Tag removed. This still needs to be discussed first. You seem to be in disagreement that Hamas and Hezbollah are bent on genocide and have resorted to some of the same things Israel has been accused of "genocide" for. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 17:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

::::::::I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with anything except the tag being improperly applied and without good reason. If you want to assert that Hamas or Hezbollah are accused of genocide against Israel, then you can add that to an Israel section with appropriate mains/sourcing. Selfstudier (talk) 17:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:::Please... There was nothing inappropriate about the tag. Your premature removal was what was inappropriate. The section was missing any coverage of genocidal efforts and intentions towards Israel. Easy math. By insisting that the tag was inappropriate you are more than suggesting that you actually believe there are no genocidal efforts and intentions against Israel, which is a bit curious, because various Hamas officials, including Ghazi Hamad, have stated their intentions publicly,[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/hamas-official-we-will-repeat-october-7-attacks-until-israel-is-annihilated/0000018b-8b9d-db7e-af9b-ebdfbee90000 Hamas Official: We Will Repeat October 7 Attacks Until Israel Is Annihilated][https://web.archive.org/web/20240311111155/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/hamas-intending-nothing-less-than-a-second-holocaust-niall-ferguson/video/248ab4e66a7ed0b5ac3180537e065024 Hamas ‘intending nothing less than a second Holocaust’:] as has Hezbollah and Iran, time and again, let alone all the missiles and drones these entities have aimed specifically at civilians. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

::::It was inappropriate because it was nothing more than an attempt to tag material that there is nothing wrong with, for POV reasons I would imagine. For the second time, I am not objecting additions you want to make but so far I haven't seen any. Selfstudier (talk) 18:54, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:::The material it has seems to be well sourced. It was the material that was and remains missing that is at issue. Again, there remains no coverage of genocidal efforts and intentions against Israel. That I have to recite the 'alphabet' for you on such a glaring issue seems to indicate you have no desire to include this material. Now an other editor has removed the section you created, without a discussion, claiming in edit history that you had "no point", and did not restore the original section title. i.e. Palestine / Israel. As I said, I'd like to add material but at this point I fear it's going to be reverted because it seems I'm the only one thus far who wants to obtain neutrality over this issue.. Will you be restoring your prior edit? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:54, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

::::Gwillhickers, this is not a productive discussion. If you feel material is missing then you are free to add it, as long as it is well sourced. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:10, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

• I think that Holocaust would definitely qualify for inclusion to this page. As about other later events - yes, sure, if this can be reliably sourced. For example, the October 7 attack... My very best wishes (talk) 01:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
• :The Holocaust was certainly a genocide, but it wasn't my impression that European Jews are considered an Indigenous people of western Europe in a way distinctive from other western Europeans. This article focuses on genocides against Indigenous peoples. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 02:14, 3 December 2024

(UTC)

:::So that Ashkenazi Jews are not indigenous people of Europe or Middle East? Obviously, they were very distinct from other peoples of Europe during Middle Ages for example.My very best wishes (talk) 22:53, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples&curid=35951572&diff=1272913984&oldid=1271585249 This edit] added the following unsourced content:

Conducted by the Ottoman Turks and Young Turks between 1913 and 1922 in order to ethnically cleanse Asia Minor from influential and wealthy Christian peoples. The substantial Greek population of Pontos at the coast of the Black Sea, the Greeks of Cappadocia, the Greeks of the western and southern coastal regions and the Greeks of the Aegean Islands were either murdered or perished from exhaustion and disease in endless death marches and death camps in the interior of Asia Minor. Accounts of rape, torture, amputations, infant murder and lynchings abound. There are accounts of westerners in Smyrni (Tr. Izmir) that recount livestock and people being burnt to death, patients that were purposely burnt alive inside hospitals and children being burnt inside schools, where they were rounded up in and set afire.

The sizeable Greek population of Constantinople and its surrounding areas and Eastern Thrace was massacred or forced to flee. Many people fled with barely their lives and ended up in the since 1821 independent country of Greece, or in the Caucasus or the Soviet Union. A total of 55.000 Armenians and 1.2 million Greeks fled to Greece. Estimates very from roughly 1.5 million to 2 million deaths in these genocides.

Conducted by the Ottoman Turks and part off the plan to rid Asia Minor of its Christian populations, the Assyrian populations weren't exempt of the genocides to that goal. From January to May 1915 some 275.000 Assyrians were murdered by the Turks.

-I reverted the edit but I'm just making this talk page entry so the content can be reviewed. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:00, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Hoping to get some editors familiar with this topic to chime in. Moxy🍁 04:33, 3 April 2025 (UTC)