Talk:Israeli–Palestinian conflict#rfc F9812D5

Why has mention of settlers been removed from the infobox? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1270753800&oldid=1270138634&title=Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict ] Makeandtoss (talk) 13:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

:Probably the reason is that other belligerents are organisations that took part in a conflict whereas the settlers do not constitute an organisation. The attacks conducted by settlers are more similar to terror attacks carried out by individual Palestinians - note that they are also not mentioned in the infobox.

:Mentioning "Extremist settler groups" (possibly linked to hilltop youth) in the infobox might make sense, if this is supported by reliable sources. Alaexis_¿question? 22:09, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

::That is incorrect since Palestinian fedayeen, who were individuals not part of any group, are in the infobox. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:50, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

These figures look grossly outdated and inaccurate - you could reach the figure given for Palestinian deaths without including the losses since October 2023. Can these be updated please? 82.8.128.15 (talk) 14:26, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

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The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs counts 6,680 Palestinian and 314 Israeli deaths, and 156,963 Palestinian and 6,352 Israeli injuries for the period from January 2008 to October 2023.[28] 2001:4BB8:2C1:10C7:B4E0:99FF:FEED:EAE9 (talk) 06:56, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hi IP editor. Thanks so much for taking the time to make an edit request. Please review WP:EDITXY and state, specifically, what you think should be changed or added in this article (e.g. change the third sentence in the fourth paragraph to read "XYZ"). Be sure to include WP:RS in your request so that it meets our WP:V standard. Feel free to reopen this request when you've had a chance to do that. Chetsford (talk) 22:24, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

The 1,200 deaths (a figure often quoted as being the number of Israelis killed during the Hamas incursion) always fails to mention that many were actually killed by 'friendly fire' from the Israeli military as they tried to flee Hamas militants. 122.108.116.196 (talk) 03:58, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

{{edit extended-protected|Israeli–Palestinian conflict|answered=yes}}

Change "The British Empire supplied a large amount weapons" to "The British Empire supplied a large amount of weapons" for grammar. Czmz8 (talk) 01:18, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:@Czmz8 {{Done}} Thanks for pointing that out! 🏳️‍🌈JohnLaurens333 (need something?) 02:13, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

I noticed there’s an en-dash. Why not a hyphen? מושא עקיף (talk) 02:25, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:See MOS:DASH, although it doesn't answer your 'why' question. I would also like to know the answer to this question. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:29, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::It was starting is conflict date 14 May 1948 – present
({{Age in years, months, weeks and days|day1=14|month1=5|year1=1948|day2=|month2=|year2=|duration=no}}). The Finnish from Finland I was born in Sweden, it was a lying thing The Greek from Greece I sorry 11:30, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}

Description of suggested change:

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{{TextDiff|1=ORIGINAL_TEXT|2=CHANGED_TEXT}} 2A02:6B67:D5A0:2300:313B:D8C2:83F4:A559 (talk) 13:25, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

it was the British fault.

:That is one way of seeing this. However, without any proper sources we cannot write that in our article. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 14:33, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Reading this article, it is unarguably not written from a purely neutral perspective.

Examples include:

• The article mentions "Palestinian fedayeen" for non-organized Palestinian attacks, but "Israeli settlers" for non-organized Israeli attacks, instead of the more equivalent term, "Mitnahablim";
• The article claims, quote, "Israel's occupation resulted in Israel constructing illegal settlements there, creating a system of institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians under its occupation called Israeli apartheid." using one singular reference, despite this not being a widely accepted fact; a better, though imperfect alternative would be "claimed by some to be an apartheid" and similar wordings;
• The article portrays "Israeli forces" as one, even before the existence of the IDF and the state's monopoly over violence, for example, "During the ensuing 1948 Palestine war, more than half of the mandate's predominantly Palestinian Arab population fled or were expelled by Israeli forces.", completely ignoring the existence of the Lehi and Etzel, whose full incorporation into the IDF was only completed post—Altelana;
• Etc etc etc.

The article, especially its beginning, read like a manifesto detailing Israeli war crimes; there's no mention of the Porshim's direct disobedience to the Hagannah command; no mention of the Hagannah's claims that it only displaced villages whose population fought in the 1948 war or assisted the invading Arab armies; and all of this is in direct contrast to how say State of Israel, Gaza war, and most other English Wikipedia pages are written, that is, with basic benefit of the doubt, and proper attribution of claims to those who make them, instead of declaring a widely disputed opinion, however correct it might be, as fact. אתמולתיים (talk) 11:34, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:Side-note, I do not personally have the time to fix the entirety of this article, but I do have some nitpickings than can be easily solved:

:* "Israeli settlers" should be reworded to the Hebrew phrase, Mitnahalim or Mitnahablim to match the Palestinian one.

:* The consistently put quotes around the phrase Jewish homeland are unnecessary and should be removed.

:* The participating sides infobox should be updated to remove the "Yishuv" title at the top (as it was not an organization but rather a colloquial name), and properly show when EtzelLehi were disbanded and/or merged with the IDF, within and outside of Jerusalem.

:אתמולתיים (talk) 11:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

::Agreed. This page is very biased to one perspective and leaves out a lot of Jewish history. Ba ba ba bingo (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

::I am looking into this.

::# {{tq|"Israeli settlers" should be reworded to the Hebrew phrase, Mitnahalim or Mitnahablim to match the Palestinian one.}} I get your point, but neither of these words has a Wikipedia article, and using those words would probably confuse most readers.

::# {{tq|The article claims, quote, "Israel's occupation resulted in Israel constructing illegal settlements there, creating a system of institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians under its occupation called Israeli apartheid." using one singular reference.}} This is a sentence from the lead. The section "Apartheid" has four sources, and one of them (presently source 187) has many sources. So, "Israeli apartheid" is well sourced.

::# {{tq|The article portrays "Israeli forces" as one...}} Please give a suggestion of how you think this sentence should read instead.

::# {{tq|The consistently put quotes around the phrase Jewish homeland are unnecessary and should be removed.}} The phrase Jewish homeland is used once in this article: "... issued by Britain, which promised to support the creation of a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine." There is no more mention of Jewish homeland, with or without quote marks. In this context, I think that the quote marks are fine. The Jewish homeland doesn't yet exist, and this is what the Brits promised.

::# {{tq|The participating sides infobox should be updated to remove the "Yishuv" title at the top}} When looking into this, I tend to disagree with you. As far as I can see, Yishuv was a coherent, organized, and central actor in the conflict prior to the establishment of Israel, and its inclusion is historically accurate and structurally appropriate. I could be wrong though. I think this is a judgement call, and as such, there needs to be consensus on the talk page for this. The contentious topics procedure applies to this article, and as a non-extended confirmed editor, you cannot search consensus, so there is nothing you can do about this.

::Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 10:46, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

:::{{Quote|using those words would probably confuse most readers}}

:::In that case, I believe the Palestinian word should be replaced with an English equivalent as well.

:::{{Quote|So, "Israeli apartheid" is well sourced.}}

:::And so is its nonexistence. It is not an undisputed fact, but rather, a heavily controversial opinion, and cannot be represented as anything other than an opinion. As I said, the phrasing is NPOV as well. Additionally, more of said four sources you should be added to the claim, even though it is in the lead.

:::{{Quote|Please give a suggestion of how you think this sentence should read instead.}}

:::I believe it should be expanded upon; I can't give a precise rephrasing, but it should be more than a single sentence.

:::{{Quote|The Jewish homeland doesn't yet exist}}

:::False. Kingdom of Judea. Homeland, not country.

:::{{Quote|Yishuv was a coherent, organized, and central actor in the conflict prior to the establishment of Israel}}

:::I'm a native Hebrew speaker, and it is not. "Yishuv" literally means "settlement", and more directly, "village". It is always referred to as "the yishuv" (that is, not a proper noun), and as I said, it is a colloquial name for the Zionist communities in pre-1948 Israel. The term "Yeshuv leadership" is often used; but it refers both to the leadership of the Hagannah and the civil leadership (the predecessor of Mapai; which had no actual authority, but rather, was a grassroots movement), and to Jewish leaders of thought in general. The "yeshuv" consisted of many, many groups, and to this day, Israeli villages (Yeshuvim) are named by what organization founded them (Kibbutzim, Moshavim, Moshavot, Yeshuvim Kehilatiyim, Kfarim etc.). The usage of the term "members" is because socialism and (then-)pan-nationalism.

:::Thank you for giving this time, though :D אתמולתיים (talk) 17:55, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

::PS I'll subscribe to this discussion, so if you would like to reply to me, I'll see it.

::::{{tq|In that case, I believe the Palestinian word should be replaced with an English equivalent as well.}} Yes, I get your point. So, which word would you like me to use instead of Palestinian fedayeen?

::::I added a source to the lead to the "Israel apartheid". If you would like to add text that says that it does not exist, then write a text that is confirmed by WP:reliable sources and I can add it for you.

:::: About the quotes, I have given it some thought, I have checked the Balfour Declaration article, and it says: "The term "national home" had no precedent in international law", so I keep the quotes to keep the connection to that Declaration where it was coined.

:::: Finally, about removing Yishuv from the infobox. You may be right, I don't know. Once you are an extended-confirmed editor, you can try to find consensus about this. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 08:20, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}

Description of suggested change:

This issue is a very heated topic and this wikipedia page is very biased to only explain the Palestinian perspective. This page leaves out the long history of Zionism and the Jewish diaspora that was included in other Wikipedia articles. For context, links to the following should be included at the top in the history section otherwise people think that this all originated in the 1920s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

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{{TextDiff|1=ORIGINAL_TEXT|2=CHANGED_TEXT}} Ba ba ba bingo (talk) 20:46, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:{{not done}}: Your claims of bias aside, links to other Wikipedia articles would be more appropriate in the "See also" section than where you propose. If you feel that some aspect of the history of Zionism is not adequately covered by the article, you may make a new edit request with specific text you want included, and it will be considered. Day Creature (talk) 02:52, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

::Ba ba ba bingo I added some of the wikipedia articles your proposed to the "See also" section. I did not add Bar Kokhba revolt and First Jewish–Roman War because this article starts with the 20th century, so those articles are beyond the scope of this one. Lova Falk (talk) 05:58, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

{{edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}

Addition of Iran-Israel 12 day war that has recently culminated into a ceasefire agreement.

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{{TextDiff|1=ORIGINAL_TEXT|2=CHANGED_TEXT}} Jonologist (talk) 10:25, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

:This is an article about the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and unless you have text that connects this war to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and a reliable source that confirms your text, I don't think that this should be included. But I won't close your edit request just now, in case an editor comes along who agrees with you and disagrees with me. Lova Falk (talk) 10:37, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 13:50, 26 June 2025 (UTC)