Talk:Main Page#Adding Template:Main Page banner to the Mobile site front page

{{Edit fully-protected|answered=yes}}

Given the lack of opposition to Minilammas's proposal, I'd like to request an administrator make the above edit. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 21:48, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: I object to this. The community has deliberately chosen to include certain projects and exclude other ones, not just because there's limited space to include them but as an expression of their merit - we're not linking to wikis overrun with bot-created stubs for example. I would think those same choices should be respected here, rather than simply displaying every single one. And "proposal has been uncontested for 3 days" is a really weak grounds for requesting an edit to the main page anyway; I would think this requires broader discussion. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:03, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

::This isn't about displaying the languages, that's done by {{template link|Wikipedia languages}}. This proposed change would only permit users manually searching in the language box for specific languages as can be done for every other page on the encyclopedia. Regarding the complaint of the low participation, this page generally gets almost no comments. Despite being watched by over 100,000 editors, the last edit request (adding active editors to the head, a much more visible and substantive edit) only got two participants. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 02:08, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

::I think you misunderstood the proposal. It's about the interwiki links in the dropdown box. --Minilammas (talk) 15:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:::{{reply|Minilammas}} Given the low participation on this page I think your best bet here would be to either open an RFC or bring {{template link|Main Page interwikis}} to TfD. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 15:28, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't really have the time or motivation to start an RfC about this, especially as my home wiki is the Finnish Wikipedia, and I am not too familiar with how to conduct a proper RfC here, as I only edit here every so often. --Minilammas (talk) 15:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1752087668}}

{{rfc|tech|rfcid=67E2391}}

On behalf of Minilammas in the above discussion I'd like to propose an RFC on removing the main page's restriction on interlanguage links. This would permit readers to use the language dropdown menu's search box to find Wikipedias in any language. Note that this proposal does not affect the links advertised in the Wikipedia languages section of the main page, which will continue to be handled by {{template link|Wikipedia languages}}.

Editors are encouraged to visit the main page of the Finnish Wikipedia for an example of this implementation. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 18:27, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

{{block indent|em=1.6|1=Notified: Template talk:Main Page interwikis#Vector 2022. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 18:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)}}

• Support as proposer. I don't think allowing the dropdown box to appear constitutes "advertising" the less-well-established language editions; {{template link|Wikipedia languages}} does that job and is far more prominent and includes an encouragement to visit them. I think we are doing our readers a disservice in hiding the existence of these other projects, as the dropdown's search feature allows readers to type in their preferred language and find a project written for them. Our article on Earth, for instance, advertises that it exists in 312 other languages and we're fine with readers of the article using the dropdown feature to find them. Why not on the main page as well? Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 18:27, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
• :I use Monobook. The [https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etusivu?useskin=monobook&uselang=en Finnish Wikipedia's Main Page] has a "343 more" button in the Languages section, after an apparently fixed list. The article on [https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maa?useskin=monobook&uselang=en Earth] has a "303 more" but when I click that, I do not get the FA and GA stars that enwiki's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth?useskin=monobook Earth] shows me. I don't know where these differences come from but the proposed system does not seem to be working fully. —Kusma (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per my comments above. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:13, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• :{{Ping|Pppery}} You didn't even read what Dan Leonard replied to you, did you? This isn't about the languages shown on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wikipedia_languages Template:Wikipedia languages]. --Minilammas (talk) 17:06, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• :: I did read it, but I wasn't convinced. I feel the same logic behind Template:Wikipedia languages deliberately filtering out entries also applies to Template:Main Page interwikis. You obviously don't see it that way, and I suspect we won't convince each other of our positions so let's see what the rest of the community thinks. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:07, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::I don't understand why every single article on Wikipedia is allowed to show the full interwiki language link list (via dropdown menu) but not the Main Page. Not really logical. --Minilammas (talk) 17:10, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::You can't manage to filter the interwiki links of the articles since there are millions, unlike the main page. Riad Salih (talk) 17:25, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::I don't think it's Wikipedia's job to gatekeep readers from other language editions of Wikipedia. --Minilammas (talk) 22:02, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::Each local version functions independently, and every community makes its own choices. Riad Salih (talk) 22:04, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::: If it were technically possible to do in a reasonable manner (it's not currently, and not likely to become possible in the forseeable future), I could totally see myself supporting excluding bot-created articles from interwiki links everywhere. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:59, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::: Reaffirming that I am not convinced by Amir's arguments below and retain my opposition. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:32, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::Excluding bot-created articles everywhere is a reasonable feature request. I don't necessarily agree with it, and it definitely needs thought, but it's totally valid as an idea. I can see myself agreeing with it in some form. Have you filed it in Phabricator? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:02, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::: I hadn't, because I had assumed it would be completely impractical with the current way Wikidata works not providing any information on which to declare an article "bot-created". * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:48, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::Practical implementation is easier said than done. Many articles start out as bot-created and are later edited by humans significantly, which should not count for bot-created forever. But, there is no fool-proof way to figure out what counts and what doesn't. If we use a n number of non-bot edits as a proxy, one could bypass it just by editing the articles n times. If page size is used as a proxy, you could just fill the page with some garbage and get around the restriction. Then, there are other types of mass-creations as well, that are not better than bot-edits, the Belarusian village articles around the time of WP:7M comes to mind. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 05:01, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pppery. Riad Salih (talk) 15:28, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pppery above. —Fortuna, imperatrix 15:52, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support per Dan Leonard. Gatekeeping the more prominently displayed links makes sense. Gatekeeping what's listed in a searchable dialogue is asinine. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 22:45, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support, I don't think we should list all the languages on the main template. But, allowing all languages in the searchable dialog is reasonable. A new editor trying to find, say, Hindi Wikipedia (5th most spoken language), they should be able to find it. Alternatively, my preference is to include a link to Special:SiteMatrix at the dead last of the Main Page, this will provide a one-stop link to all Wikimedia sites without requiring any Main Page real estate. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 00:22, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support. Makes sense to restrict it to the most prominent ones for the template, obviously, but for a search dialogue? I don't see any real reason to restrict a function. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:40, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support agree with Tamzin. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 08:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support agree with both Dan Leonard and Tamzin. Migfab008 (talk) 12:21, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support Wikipedias get better the more eyes they have on them. Wikipedias that get ignored for having a bunch of bad articles will have bad articles forever. This probably won't have that much of an effect but there's no reason not to. --CharaCookie241 (talk) 15:01, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pppery. The list of other Wikipedias is an explicit section at the bottom of the page, which is actively curated. The main page should not have indiscriminate links to other projects which may be of low quality.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• :That’s not what this is about - it’s about the dropdown in the corner. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:32, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Yeah, indeed. Do you want to strike your vote, {{U|Amakuru}}? Schwede66 23:41, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• :{{Ping|Amakuru}} This is not what this is about, and it has already been explained above. --Minilammas (talk) 18:38, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::I know what it's about, and I oppose it. Personally I don't think we should have any drop down list for interlanguages on the main page, it looks weird down at the bottom and we already have the prominent link to other languages. So if we can vote to remove that dropdiwn altogether then count me in. But failing that, let's at least not make it an indiscriminate list of links to potentially uncurated content.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::You said "The list of other Wikipedias is an explicit section at the bottom of the page, which is actively curated", which obviously refers to the language section on the front page shown by this template. And this change is not about that template, so that was the reason for my comment. --Minilammas (talk) 20:00, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• Question Are we talking about the drop-down that appears in the upper-right of most mains-space articles? I have always understood that to offer the same topic, but from a different wiki, not as a shortcut to switch between wikis. If I'm understanding properly, I think that's confusing, because there is no unified "main page" topic. All the different wikis do their main pages differently. It certainly should not be implemented on only one language, giving the user a confusing asymmetric, dead-end experience. If I'm understanding correctly, this seems like a change that should be made globally, at the foundation level, or not at all.ApLundell (talk) 17:57, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
• :@ApLundell he is referring to the drop-down button at the bottom of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/ main page] that links to the main pages of other wikis. Riad Salih (talk) 13:15, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::Yes, and this is already handled globally, ApLundell, through the default that any page linked to a given Wikidata item (in this case, d:Q5296) will have links to all other languages linked to it. The English Wikipedia is currently the exception in that we override this behavior for our Main Page. This made some sense back when the links were all in a column on the side of the page, but that is no longer the case. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 13:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::It is if you use a proper skin (I don't understand why people use Vector2022). Can we see a mockup of what the change would mean? I just tried to make one on Wikipedia:Main Page/1, but that page is not connected to the same wikidata item so of course it does not work. —Kusma (talk) 16:15, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::As suggested in the RFC heading, see the Finnish Wikipedia's main page for a nearly identical main page to ours but without the {{magic word link|noexternallanglinks}} magic word. Add ?useskin=monobook to any URL to preview skins. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 18:24, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::The Finnish Wikipedia looks different with Monobook than the English one. In particular, Monobook on the English Wikipedia always displays the entire list of languages for me. The only mockup I have seen (previewing an edit of the Main Page) is not available for non-admins so I think it is a very reasonable thing to ask for that one is produced that can be tested with all skins. —Kusma (talk) 18:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose, list is far too long / Main Page is too short, looks terrible in Monobook. —Kusma (talk) 16:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :{{Ping|Kusma}} The links would be behind a dropdown menu... it wouldn't make the page any longer. --Minilammas (talk) 18:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::Not in the only skin I care about. —Kusma (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::{{Ping|Kusma}} Yes they would. The CURRENT links are not behind a dropdown menu because the language links are limited by the template {{noexternallanglinks}}, which prevents the dropdown menu from appearing. But this proposal would get rid of the template noexternallanglinks, and put the language links behind a dropdown menu. The dropdown menu would be the same as it is on any article, for example Earth. It would look exactly the same as on the Finnish Wikipedia's home page. --Minilammas (talk) 18:31, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::@Minilammas, Earth does not show a dropdown menu for me but instead has all of the languages in all their glory. The article is long enough to support that, unlike the Main Page. —Kusma (talk) 18:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::I switched to Monobook to test and for me on Earth it shows 9 languages and a dropdown menu link. --Minilammas (talk) 18:37, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::At load time, it shows me all the languages, but after a second or so, everything but the top 9 items are collapsed. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 18:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::Ah, right, it is not the skin, but the "compact language list" misfeature. It hides the GA and FA stars in the collapsed languages so I have it turned off, but it seems this is a local preference, not a global one. I also disagree with that feature's premise that there are languages "relevant to me"; what languages I am interested in depends on the article more than on my knowledge of the language. —Kusma (talk) 19:01, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::The language selector is not without its flaws, to be sure, but we should be making design decisions for the Main Page that close to 100% of our readers see, not for what others see or what technical changes we might wish were made to MediaWiki. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 21:31, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose I reckon the link should be removed altogether as clutter. The section starts by saying "{{tq|Many other Wikipedias are available; some of the largest are listed below.}}" That provides a link to :meta:List of Wikipedias which is a curated and comprehensive list of them all and explains them in English. The drop-down link is superfluous. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
• :While the link to the flat list is useful, it's worth reading the findings at mw:Universal Language Selector/Compact Language Links: only 10-20% of web users know how to use their browser to search for text on a page, while the drop-down box welcomes searching with a text input box. Also, the language selector actively adapts to the user's browser language setting and IP location to suggest relevant languages, which has been shown to massively increase clickthrough to Wikipedias in smaller languages. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 14:18, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. Questionable value, and wikipedia.org already has links to other languages. The value add on this section is not that huge, and restricting this is good practice. Also, more selfishly, I too am a Monobook user and don't think we should use anything that performs poorly with an accepted skin, although I don't want to make this the crux of the argument. SnowFire (talk) 19:55, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

• Support I forgot to add my own support at the start. --Minilammas (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support removing the 50 languages limit. It has bothered me greatly for a long time, but I was reluctant to start an RFC myself (see the end of this post for the reason). Now that it started, however, I'm supporting it. It has never been so fair that the English Wikipedia community decides which languages to show or not to show on the main page, and limits the number to such a small and arbitrary number. It is not the English Wikipedia community's job to decide the "merit" of a Wikipedia in another language or to claim that about 300 Wikipedias are "overrun with bot-created stubs"; that's what the :m:Language committee is for (I happen to be a member; more on that later). One could argue that the English Wikipedia can decide whatever it wants, of course, but it's more right to take some responsibility for the fact that the English Wikipedia is the biggest one and for the fact that its main page is one of the de facto portals to Wikipedias in other languages. I speak a lot to people who know various languages and many of them don't know that a Wikipeda in their language exists even if it does, and it happened more than once that they told me that they didn't know that it exists because they didn't see a link to it on the English Wikipedia's main page. So instead of helping other languages grow by giving people a chance to discover them, the English Wikipedia main page perpetuates their weakness. If those interlanguage links are legitimate in articles, why aren't they legitimate on the main page?
  As for users who use non-default skins or disable the compact list in the preferences and who don't want the list to look too long—I see them and hear them, but they are a tiny group compared to the hundreds of millions of readers, and I'm sure that another technical solution can be found for them.
  Finally, anyone who is really unhappy about the existence of Wikipedias who have very low activity or quality, is really welcome to suggest their closure at :m:Talk:Language committee. The problem of low-quality wikis is real, and this is the right, albeit more time-consuming way to handle it; hiding them from the English Wikipedia main page, while hurting other legitimate communities, is not.
  Possible conflicts of interest: I'm writing this as an English Wikipedia volunteer editor. I'm also a staff member of the WMF, and as such, I've been directly involved in the development of some iterations of the language selector design before 2020, but I'm not involved in its design now. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 03:30, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support. I find Amir Aharoni's arguments very persuasive. JMCHutchinson (talk) 08:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support adding all languages to the drop-down list, for consistency and fairness. Oppose any similar changes to Template:Wikipedia languages which is actively curated and subject to the discretion of the English Wikipedia community — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:26, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support per Amir E. Aharoni. Xoontor (talk) 13:02, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pppery et al above. JayCubby 15:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support per Amir. Although I would suggest a slight CSS tweak to hide the "Add languages" button on the main page, as that is likely to just cause confusion: .page-Main_Page .uls-add-languages-button { display: none; } the wub "?!" 09:58, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Can you please report this to Phabricator and tag with UniversalLanguageSelector and ContentTranslation? This should probably be fixed for everyone and not just for the English Wikipedia. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:14, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::Done: phab:T396967 the wub "?!" 22:07, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::This should not be fixed in CSS, maybe using JS or PHP ? Sohom (talk) 22:31, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
• Support per Amir, I came into this discussion knowing very little but I am persuaded by his arguments and experiences. Flip^andFlopped ㋡ 01:25, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

June is the LGBTQIA+ Pride Month, so it’s extremely suspicious that throughout the entire month there hasn’t been a single topic about it mentioned on the main page. Compare this to politics; if a president is elected, even a controversial one, the topic will likely make it to the main page. Questionadora ávida (talk) 10:19, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

:There is nothing nefarious going on here. Most parts of the Main Page have a process to go through in order to get something posted. Elections are posted to In the news via WP:ITNC; it doesn't generally post any sort of holiday or recognized month as there isn't a single event that can be used as a hook. 331dot (talk) 10:22, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

:Yes there has. Cremastra (talk) 12:01, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

::OK Questionadora ávida (talk) 12:05, 28 June 2025 (UTC)