Talk:Poop emoji/GA2

{{archive top}}

{{Good article tools}}

{{al|{{#titleparts:Poop emoji/GA2|-1}}|noname=yes}}
:This review is transcluded from Talk:Poop emoji/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: {{User|Boneless Pizza!}} 10:57, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: MediaKyle (talk · contribs) 16:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi there Boneless Pizza!, thanks for your work on this article. As requested, I'll be starting this review today. Please respond to each suggestion with a separate inline comment, marking completed suggestions with {{Done}}. Suggestions that are not related to the good article criteria will be marked with (Optional). MediaKyle (talk) 16:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi! Thanks a lot for picking this up. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:21, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

• {{xt!|In Japan, a pile of poop, specifically Kin no unko, is a symbol of good luck, as the name is a pun meaning "golden poo" and "good luck" in Japanese.}} Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not a pile of poop that's seen as a symbol of good luck, but specifically a golden pile of poop. I would change the wording of this to make that more clear. For example: {{xt|In Japan, a golden pile of poop, known as Kin no unko, is a symbol of good luck. The name is a pun, meaning both "golden poo" and "good luck" in Japanese.}} MediaKyle (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Many thanks for the suggestion. {{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:20, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• {{xt!|Every emoji, including "poop", is rendered differently by Apple, Android, and other platforms.}} I think "including poop" can be taken out here, as it's implied when saying every emoji. This also seems a little vague and it should be made more specific that we're talking about operating systems - Apple is a company, Android is an OS. MediaKyle (talk) 16:39, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Thanks.{{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:41, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• {{xt!|A poop emoji was used in the 2018 case of Emerson v. Dart following the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit's ruling in which Paula Emerson, a prison officer, sued the county on grounds of workplace discrimination and posted using the emoji in an employee Facebook page.}} I read this a few times, and I still can't figure out exactly what it means. That's also a very long sentence. MediaKyle (talk) 17:02, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :This source seems to be good to be adddd from the article, but I am having hard time with this one, especially as a non-native speaker. Do you have suggestion with this one? 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 17:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• No other article for emoji has received GA status, so finding comparables for this is quite difficult. That being said, I think that the term "Reception" better applies to the "Popularity" section. For example, Smiling Face with Heart Eyes emoji uses Popularity, but Face with Tears of Joy emoji uses Reception. Whereas the section on this article has gone beyond just talking about how popular the emoji is, renaming it to "Reception" may be fitting. MediaKyle (talk) 17:02, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Replaced. {{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 17:15, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• After reading over the article a few times, and reflecting on the previous review, unfortunately I have to agree with the last reviewer that the "Reception" section, previously "Popularity", essentially needs a complete rewrite to comply with the good article criteria. While not nearly as problematic as the previously reviewed version, it remains a pretty indiscriminate collection of information, with very odd flow.

:Beyond the issue I raised above regarding the court case, there's other statements that leave me scratching my head.

:{{xt!|Facebook's internal documents have also revealed that the emoji has been occasionally considered as hate speech.}} Considered hate speech by whom? What internal documents?

:{{xt!|Brenden Gallagher of Complex ranked the smiling poop emoji number one on his "emoji power" list, writing that the smiling poop emoji is amazing since it is based on a contradiction.}} I'm not sure what this statement means, either.

:{{xt!|Musk responded with the same graphic after X's former CEO, Parag Agrawal, gave him a thorough explanation of why it would be challenging to gauge the extent of bot usage on the network.}} "thorough explanation" seems like editorializing, and beyond that, this sentence is rather long winded and a bit unclear because of the unnecessary detail.

:These are just some examples to try to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. My recommendation would be to write an entirely new section. Let me know if you have any questions on this point. MediaKyle (talk) 18:47, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

::Revamped a bit and removed the Facebook claim. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 11:33, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

• The lead claims that a slang term for the poop emoji is "poomoji". This is not brought up again in the article, and it doesn't seem like any of the sources call the emoji "poomoji" or refer to "poomoji" as being a slang term. Could you elaborate on why this is there? MediaKyle (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :I decided to delete it off. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::I just noticed you also deleted the British English version of "Poo emoji", do you have a justification for this? I just took a look at a couple of the sources and it seems like it is occasionally referred to as "poo emoji", I just wasn't seeing the slang term "poomoji" anywhere. MediaKyle (talk) 16:29, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::Oops sorry. I restored it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• {{xt!|In 2024, Google stated that it will develop an app that will be able to create a "fart noise" using the poo emoji in Android messaging.}} Is this particularly relevant to the article? I can see it being included if Google did in fact develop the app, and it was given coverage, but the article barely even mentions the poop emoji and I feel like this may be more of a piece of "trivia". MediaKyle (talk) 16:39, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Fair enough. {{done}} deleting it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:42, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

• [https://slate.com/technology/2015/12/emojis-are-no-longer-cool-in-japan.html 3] {{endash}} The article doesn't specifically mention the poop emoji, but it does say "The very first emojis appeared on a handset sold by the company J-Phone (now Softbank) in 1997". Based on the article Emoji#History, is it possible that a poop emoji appeared earlier than this? MediaKyle (talk) 16:51, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Reworded, and it states from this source [https://slate.com/culture/2020/04/cute-poop-emoji-unicorn-toys-why.html] that it appears in 1997. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 17:00, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• 4, 5, 6 {{endash}} I'm not sure if I'm satisfied with the quality of referencing with this paragraph under "History". This is long enough that citations should be provided throughout the paragraph rather than stacking them all at the end. Looking at the sources, I'm having a hard time figuring out where each piece of information came from, which would be problematic to readers. MediaKyle (talk) 16:51, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :{{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 17:15, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• [https://www.fastcompany.com/3037803/the-oral-history-of-the-poop-emoji-or-how-google-brought-poop-to-america 4] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/24687/1/what-does-the-stinky-poop-emoji-really-mean 5] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2014/11/emojis-rapid-evolution.html 6] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://www.vice.com/en/article/emoji-makers-went-to-war-over-a-new-frowning-poop-emoji-vgtrn/ 10] {{endash}} This article confirms the controversy over the frowning poop emoji, however it does not confirm that it was ultimately removed from the list of candidates from my reading of it. MediaKyle (talk) 17:45, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Removed that sentence 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 18:03, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::Removing that sentence made that no longer make any sense. {{xt!|In 2017, a "frowning pile of poo" emoji was shortlisted for inclusion in a future Unicode release. After negative feedback against including this character from WG2 experts, including Michael Everson and Andrew West.}} What happened after the negative feedback? This introduces the topic but doesn't expand on it. The solution here ideally would have been to find a source that also confirms the removal from the list of candidates, the text itself was fine and I assume it's correct, it's just the specific claim that it was removed from the list which needs to be sourced. The cited article appears to be from before that happened. MediaKyle (talk) 18:11, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::Yeah, I did reworded into "In 2017, a "frowning pile of poo" emoji was met with controversy for inclusion in a future Unicode release after negative feedback against from WG2 experts, including Michael Everson and Andrew West." 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 18:13, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::Also, added [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Poop_emoji&diff=prev&oldid=1285938660] 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 18:23, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/patrick-stewart-voice-poop-emoji-emoji-movie-965588/ 16] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/10/poo-taboo-emojis-party-bags-board-games-museum 17] {{endash}} This article doesn't appear to refer to Mr. Hankey as "the original poop emoji", rather just discussing Mr. Hankey in the context of poop-related media. MediaKyle (talk) 17:45, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Removed 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 18:03, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• [https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2122090/new-apple-iphone-x-ad-features-singing-karaoke-poop-emoji-called-animoji 18] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a9250261/poop-troop-emojis/ 19] {{endash}} I would remove the statement cited with this personally. This doesn't appear to be independently written, based on the tag that says "we may earn commissions from this article." MediaKyle (talk) 17:45, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Replaced the source 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 18:03, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stop-everything-and-design-your-own-poop-emoji-for-world-toilet-day_n_564de22de4b08c74b7347f61 20] {{endash}} Verifiable
• [https://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/canadians-top-the-world-in-smiling-poop-emoji-use-report-finds-1.3043143 21] {{endash}} Verifiable

• Earwig highlighted a 67% similarity with [https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/rFaB8d/Emoji-Poo-Pixel-Art this source]. Upon review, it is very clear that the source copy and pasted the text of the Wikipedia article, and not the other way around. I did not identify any problems with close paraphrasing as discussed in the previous review, and I believe these issues have been resolved. MediaKyle (talk) 16:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :That surprised me. Yep, 100% they are the one who copied it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:20, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

• The first and last images in the article are appropriately licensed, and are suitably captioned. I'm not 100% sure about the 1997 emoji though. Per criteria 6(a), "valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content", could you please direct me to the specific fair use rationale for using the image on this article? MediaKyle (talk) 16:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Hi! I decided to delete it since I'm not sure what would be he rationale and it was the uploader who wanted to restore the non free image before. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:15, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::I think this might have actually been a misunderstanding on my part. It appears there actually is a rationale provided on the file page: :File:SoftBank 1997 Pile of Poop.png for some reason I was expecting it to be on the talk page. I think you can add it back, it's been around for a while and honestly I find it kind of ridiculous that someone can copyright that cluster of pixels anyways. MediaKyle (talk) 16:22, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::I see. Great! I thought it was irrelevant hehe. {{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:25, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Review is currently on hold pending improvements to the "Reception" section as discussed above. MediaKyle (talk) 20:30, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

:I'll try to work on it on Tuesday or Wednesday (my day off). While I'm not sure how do I improve it, but will try. Many thanks! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 00:59, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

::@MediaKyle I'm not sure, but I did what I could at Reception section. Can you check? 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 11:33, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Sorry for the delay, @Boneless Pizza!. The section is looking better now. I'll dive into the article again over the course of the day and see where we're at. MediaKyle (talk) 10:27, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::NP! Thanks! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:59, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::@MediaKyle following up 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 00:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

{{outdent|::::::}}@Boneless Pizza! Oh, goodness. I'm sorry. Let's get this finished up. I'll start making some notes here:

• {{xt!|However, across all generations in 2022, a poop emoji has been considered the least preferred emoji to use.}} This should specify where the data came from. In this case, something like {{xt|According to data released by Adobe in 2022, the poop emoji was considered the least preferred emoji to use that year.}}

::{{done}}

• Unfortunately, I'm still finding the part about the court case to be unclear. It's hard to determine from the text why exactly the poop emoji was a relevant part of the case. Did the court comment on it? Did it affect the outcome of the decision? Etc. Otherwise, the reception section is looking a lot better now, and I think we're close to GA quality now.
• {{xt!|Synergy Pharmaceuticals created "Poop Troop" emojis to help people figure out what their poop means.}} Figure out what their poop means... Is it talking to you? I'm still not entirely convinced the source isn't promotional, either. It's a rather short article that seems to exist to direct you towards their poop emoji keyboard on the app store. I'd probably still strike it unless you can find better coverage.

::{{done}} removed

Will start there, going to carefully read over the article again a few times since this review has taken awhile, and we'll go from there. MediaKyle (talk) 00:34, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

• (Optional) {{xt!|Some possible uses include as a response of passive-aggressive emotion; for comedic value; as commentary on what is bad; or for its literal meaning.}} This is just personal preference, as this is technically correct, but I'm not a big fan of excessive semicolon-ing. This could be changed to {{xt|Some possible uses include: a passive-aggressive response, comedic effect, commentary on something bad, or its literal meaning.}} to remove the semicolons and make it slightly more clear and concise.
• Come to think of it, after I typed the above, I realized none of this information is actually discussed or cited anywhere in the article. Do you have any sources that discuss what the poop emoji is used for?
• :::Added a source and reworded as well. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 01:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• (Optional) For clarity and to avoid mentioning Unicode twice, {{xt!|A poop emoji was added to Unicode in Unicode 6.0 in 2010 and to Unicode's official emoji {{xt!|A poop emoji was added to Unicode in Unicode 6.0 in 2010 and to Unicode's official emoji documentation in 2015.}} can be changed to {{xt|A poop emoji was added to Unicode 6.0 in 2010 and included in Unicode's official emoji documentation in 2015.}}

::{{done}}

• {{xt!|It has also surfaced and been used by a variety of sources, including X's auto-reply message.}} "Surfaced" is kind of vague, what do we mean by surfaced in this context? Maybe something like {{xt|has appeared in a variety of sources}} or however you want to word it would be better.

::{{done}}

• {{xt!|The United States then absorbed that facet of Japanese culture.}} This seems rather out of place with the surrounding text. What do we mean by "absorbed"? Can the poop emoji really be called a "facet of culture"? If the source provides, it may be worth changing this out for some background information on how the poop emoji spread from Japan to the United States/internationally.

::Eh I decided to remove it.

• {{xt!|The first popular emoji set was created by Shigetaka Kurita, an employee of the Japanese telecom company NTT DoCoMo.}} This seems like it belongs at the top of the History section, not near the bottom. Are these the emojis that were used by J-Phone, or did they come before it?

::Moved from the top.

And I'd say that's about all I can come up with for any more concerns. The main thing holding us up is still the reception section, I'd say, but just around the court case. Information regarding uses of the emoji will have to be added to the body as well in order to comply with MOS:LEAD. Rest is small stuff. MediaKyle (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:(Optional) Oh, just one more thing: I've been pondering about the placement of the encoding table. It doesn't mean anything for GA, but it's something that should be thought about so that this article can be used as an example for other emojis. I think I like the way it's done at Face with Tears of Joy emoji, with a separate "Encoding" section at the end. Up to you how you want to handle it though, or if you're fine with it as is. MediaKyle (talk) 01:33, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 01:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::@MediaKyle I tried whatever I can. Unfortunately, I decided to remove the court case because kts really tough to incorporate its info. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 01:48, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:::That's totally cool with me, I don't think whether or not that's included has any bearing on breadth, so as far as the review is concerned that's a nonissue. Just one last thing:

:::* {{xt!|The name is a pun, meaning both "golden poo" and "good luck" in Japanese. It is used as an expression, such as joke or hateful speech.}}

:::Now that you've added the part about the uses, I realized that the part about the golden poo is a little out of place. This is likely related to it's popularity in Japan as touched on earlier in the article, and so would make more sense as part of that paragraph. It reads a little strange going from "poop emojis look different on various operating systems" to "golden poo is a pun in Japan". Do any of the sources discussing the poop emoji's origins in Japan talk about that context in a way that could be included? After moving that sentence, I would change {{xt!|It is used}} to {{xt|The emoji is used}}. MediaKyle (talk) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't think so sadly, maybe I can move it at the last sentence of first paragraph? Does it work or it is still doesn't make sense? I cannot tell since I'm not native in English. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 02:00, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Decided to move it to the middle of first paragraph 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 02:08, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::I've been mulling over it trying to work it into that paragraph myself, but it's a bit of a challenge. Wherever it goes, it'll likely have to be adjusted for flow. I was thinking something along the lines of {{xt|In 2007, Google decided to include the poop emoji in the Gmail emoji package after the emoji became very popular in Japan. This popularity is due to the fact that in Japan, a golden pile of poop, known as Kin no unko, is a symbol of good luck. The name is a pun, meaning both "golden poo" and "good luck" in Japanese.}} ... except I think that may be too long-winded. I wonder if there's any active editors with WP:JAPAN that might have input, if we can't figure it out? MediaKyle (talk) 02:26, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I don't think combining this one is good idea. I feel like it would be fine the way where it is right now. Removing that info is kinda sad hehe 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 02:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I'm not suggesting we remove it by any means, and I think the information is actually necessary for breadth given that it's the reason why the emoji became so popular in the first place. My issue with the current placement of that sentence is that it has no relevance to the sentence before and after it, it seems like just a random fact that got shoehorned in there when in fact it is quite relevant. I feel this falls under GA Criteria 1, and so should be dealt with before promoting. MediaKyle (talk) 02:41, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Fair enough. I did asked at our group offwiki about this, but got no respond yet (not sure if they're gonna respond to this question). 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 02:44, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

{{outdent|:::::::::}}Well, I think I'm just about satisfied with the article - but now that I've read it a hundred times over, I think it would be wise to ask a more experienced editor to give the article a quick skim to ensure I didn't miss anything as far as the criteria goes. Please bear with me for a little bit. MediaKyle (talk) 11:56, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi there, I was asked for a second opinion, so here's my 2c, which you can take or leave:

• I think there is a bunch of material in "history" that is really just about the emoji's appearance; I think "appearance" or something similar should be a separate section. This strikes me as a useful precedent to set for future GA-level emoji articles, too.
• "Appearances" and "reception" don't really make sense as section headings to me. It's not an actor in a film. It's a drawing of a pile of poop. There's got to be a better way to arrange these. I suggest making a heading called "Uses", that incorporates information on the meaning of the emoji (currently stuck in the History section) and some individual uses of it (eg to reply to emails about X).
• {{tq|According to data released by Adobe in 2022, the poop emoji was considered the least preferred emoji to use that year.}} This is concerning, since the rest of the article talks about the emoji's popularity, and this appears to be completely counter to that. I notice that the rest of the sources are from 10 or more years ago. This suggests to me that the "reception" stuff should more properly be in with the "history" section, and that we've got something missing here - more information about how the poop emoji "fell out of favour".
• Whatever changes you decide to make, you'll want to have another go at the lead when you're done, to make sure it's a summary of the article.
• By the way, you may be interested in this: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/poop-cafe-debuts-this-weekend-hopes-it-isn-t-a-stinker-with-locals-1.3797420]. There was also one in Seoul, but it's closed now: [https://jeniventures.com/2021/03/15/i-drank-from-a-toilet-insadongs-poop-cafe-%EB%98%90%EC%98%B9%EC%B9%B4%ED%8E%98/]. (No RS for that one that I can find in English, but there's probably something in Korean.)

Cheers! -- asilvering (talk) 18:32, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you very much asilvering for your comments. I too had my reservations about how the information was presented, but having it all spelled out like that makes it clear that the article still has a ways to go for GA.

Boneless Pizza!, I do apologize, but after thinking over it for a while I believe at this point I'm going to have to end the review for now. We're going on 11 days, and although you've made great strides in bringing the article up to par, it seems like it just isn't quite there yet. I really wanted to pass this article, but we have to call it somewhere. You should still be proud of what you've managed to accomplish - writing an encyclopedia article about poop iconography is no easy feat. I would recommend implementing the feedback provided by asilvering, and nominating the article again at a later date. Best regards, MediaKyle (talk) 23:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:I can actually finish to address his concern but since you mentioned that the article is still long way to go and failed it already, I decided to give up at this article. Thanks. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 00:10, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

::"Failed" would not be my choice of words. This wasn't a failure, it's just not promoted yet. If you think you can handle it, there's really no reason not to, now that we've put all this time into it... It made more sense to end it here than leave the review open another week, as it's likely going to need a fresh review once the article is restructured and expanded, anyways. I'm very sorry if I discouraged you. MediaKyle (talk) 00:34, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Fair enough. Many thanks for the review though! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 00:45, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

{{archive bottom}}