Talk:Sean Baker#Requested move 3 March 2025

I have created a new [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=1059659979&oldid=1059622829&diffmode=source section called Style] to try to organize the discussion about the overall themes of his films: underrepresented groups, sex workers, post-me too sexual politics. There's definitely a notable phenomenon going on here but I feel inadequate about how to describe it. I also feel what I have written might be a little hagiographical/WP:PROMO. Input requested. Thanks. Kire1975 (talk) 20:19, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Per MOS:NATIONALITY, the nationality of someone who continues reside in the United States is "American". Sean Baker is someone who was born in the United States and continues to reside in the United States. Recently, Sjoel changed Sean Baker's nationality to

US-American adding no reasons for the change in the edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1160724600 here]. I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=next&oldid=1160724600 reverted] the edit citing MOS:NATIONALITY earlier tonight and about 4 hour hours later Sjoel undid the reversion leaving no edit summary, but instead leaving a message on my talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kire1975&diff=prev&oldid=1160884753 here]:

{{tq|Hello @Kire1975. I've seen that you have reversed a change I did in the page Sean Baker. I wanted to explain to you the reason. I found clearer using "US-American" than "American", because American can be also a person living in any place of the continent, while US-American is more concrete and makes clearer that the person is a citizen of the US.}}

Sjoel ignores the MOS:NATIONALITY question for the third time. I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kire1975&diff=next&oldid=1160884753 advised] Sjoel that if they want to change the standard sitewide, it would have to be done through a consensus seeking process and left a level 1 Manual of Style warning template on their talk page. I am now asking Sjoel to please continue any discussion of this matter on this talk page and to avoid posting on my personal talk page to that consensus can be sought. Kire1975 (talk) 10:35, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

When I read this article I initially assumed the relationship with his wife was somehow related to his views on sex work. I propose creating a separate section perhaps called "Social views" or something along those lines, and I think there could be more to add as well. 104.4.116.20 (talk) 00:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

:I changed it [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1230927452 here]. Originally,it was connected to a story that came out of the same press conference where they discussed Baker and his producer wife acting out sex scenes to demonstrate what they wanted their actors to do in their latest movie in lieu of intimacy coordinators, but [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1225350448 someone] accused me of making a "bad faith antagonistic edit" whatever that means.

:I added their dogs (one of which is an actor who received press in RS in the past) and clarifying that the third sentence in the paragraph is about his political views. The section is not long enough for a subheading, in my opinion. FYI, his views on sex work are also discussed in the "style and influnce" section. Kire1975 (talk) 13:37, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

::I like that edit, the added spacing makes it more clear IMO -- and yes it fits nicely under the "style and influence" section as well. Thanks for the response. 104.4.116.20 (talk) 22:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

6 a piece alongside I Saw the TV Glow.{{cite web |url=https://www.indiewire.com/awards/results/independent-spirit-award-nominations-2024-see-full-list-1235072334/ |title='Anora' and 'I Saw the TV Glow' Lead Spirit Award Noms with Six Each — See the Full List |last=Lattanzio |first=Ryan |work=IndieWire |date=December 4, 2024 |access-date=December 5, 2024}}{{cite web |url=https://variety.com/2024/film/news/spirit-awards-2025-nominations-1236233647/ |title=Spirit Awards 2025 Nominations: 'Anora' and 'I Saw the TV Glow' Lead Film Categories, 'Shōgun' Rules TV |last1=Lang |first1=Brent |last2=Moreau |first2=Jordan |work=Variety |date=December 4, 2024 |access-date=December 5, 2024}} Espngeek (talk) 16:19, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I made this chart. Not sure if it's worth putting on the main page, but I don't want to throw it away. It's complicated because it's both cast and crew, other charts I modeled it on like the one at Abel Ferrara are just a list of actors.

:Thank you for creating that - it looks like a lot of work went into it! I would think it's worth adding, probably after the accolades section, at the bottom? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 04:27, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

::I appreciate that. I am also concerned that only two of these collaborators are notable enough for their own wikipage. This is a concern for WP:LISTS. See WP:CSC. Kire1975 (talk) 04:56, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

::Are they likely to become notable? I don't know if LISTS applies here or not... Else perhaps you could just leave out the 2 actors with only 2 crosses and leave the rest? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:55, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

:@Geregen2 made a larger list and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1270988773#Recurring_collaborators posted it] briefly. It's pretty cool, but again problematic in that most of the collaborators aren't likely to become notable and the other reasons above.

:I'm glad to see Karren Karagulian is notable enough or a page. Again, I think it's an interesting phenomenon that I don't want to throw away but it's not ready for prime time yet. Thanks. Kire1975 (talk) 12:02, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

I have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1273851503 added some tags] to WP:AVOIDEDITWAR in this dispute. Please watch to see how they are resolved. There is also a rather lengthy discussion about the reasons for this dispute ongoing at Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Engage01:_2nd_ANI_notice. Thank you for your time. Kire1975 (talk) 08:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Regarding a secondary location or in the case of that particular school (which is in two counties and no towns). Hoover Dam is near Boulder City, Nevada southeast of Las Vegas and in two counties. With the school it is unusual in that it's not in a city / town. Being in two counties, same thing. Engage01 (talk) 12:28, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hoover Dam is a geographic landmark. Other than his presence there during early life, there is nothing relevant about the direction of a more recognizable municipality in relation to a notable alumni's hometown, high school or university or the county a school is in. That information is only a click away in the first sentence of the school page. This doesn't address the WP:SURNAME question, either: {{tq|After the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only}}. Kire1975 (talk) 03:03, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

{{reflist}}

Northeast of Elizabeth, NJ is wrong. Millburn is northeast of Elizabeth and has nothing to do with that town. It's irrelevant. Marlg78 (talk) 14:26, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

User:ZanderAlbatraz1145: Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker_(filmmaker)&diff=prev&oldid=1275708253 this edit], according to the Taipei Gold Horse film Festival, Baker is listed as co-director. Do you have a competing source that confirms he's not the director? Kire1975 (talk) 16:41, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

:Interesting. Apparently [https://www.goldenhorse.org.tw/fpp/archives/?r=en&search_regist_year=2012 that source] is from 2012 somehow. Not exactly reliable. Kire1975 (talk) 16:45, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

::[https://www.ioncinema.com/news/annual-top-films-lists/shih-ching-tsou-left-handed-girl This one] calls it Tsou's "solo outing." Kire1975 (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sean Baker which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:12, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:We shouldn't move anything while this is on the main page. Secretlondon (talk) 08:21, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

{{u|Kire1975}}, please explain [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker&diff=1278725901&oldid=1278724798 this edit] in which you are picking 3 films as "notable". Based on what criteria? What does WP:NOTABILITY have to do with this? Krimuk2.0 (talk) 06:37, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:I think the consensus would agree that everything in that edit was notable. Don't you agree? Kire1975 (talk) 07:13, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::Wait. Why did you accuse me of a WP:STATUSQUO violation in an [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker&diff=prev&oldid=1278727894 edit summary] and not bring it up here?

::WP:STATUSQUO says {{tq|Edit warring to maintain a "status quo version" is still edit warring, and you can be blocked for doing this. If a dispute arises regarding which version is the status quo ante bellum, be the adult in the room and don't revert. Tag instead.}} Now that you've reverted the edit and removed the material, I would have to actually violate status quo to put a tag there and notify people that it's in dispute.

::What does {{tq|"incorrect" use of notability}} mean? You are the one who said it was subjective in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker&diff=prev&oldid=1278724798 this edit summary]. Please read WP:OWN. Kire1975 (talk) 07:24, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:::You also mentioned WP:BRD that says {{tq|Revert an edit if you disagree with it and cannot immediately refine it.}} I reverted only partially by restoring material you removed without justification. I also refined it by adding two other notable works, including one that was nominated for best supporting actor (Florida Project) and one that was famously recognized by sources in the body of the article as the first feature film shot on an iPhone (Tangerine). Any reasonable person would consider that notable enough for an infobox. Please restore your own edit and add a tag calling for a consensus about the dispute and explain your accusations. Kire1975 (talk) 07:32, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::::WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH and actually read what WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO says before accusing others. Also, your edit had MoS issues. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:33, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::As you can see by my quotes, I did read those pages. You knew that before you accused me. Please explain the MoS issues. Kire1975 (talk) 07:35, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::Even though the WP:ONUS was on you per BRD to start this talk page discussion, I did so with a neutrally worded message. You went on a rant against me. That's the very definition of WP:OWN with clear-cut WP:PERSONALATTACKS. You don't see any MoS issues in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Baker&diff=1278725901&oldid=1278724798 your edit]? That's a clear WP:CIR issue. As is your lack of understanding of what WP:NOTABILITY is and how WP:CONSENSUS works. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:37, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Now you're just casting WP:ASPERSIONS. Knock it off. Kire1975 (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Read. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:41, 4 March 2025 (UTC)