Talk:Somaliland#Regarding Objective status of Ingoman and his editing

Hello, requesting that the section in "Foreign relations" about UKIP and Nigel Farage be updated from

"The Leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage,[...]"

to

"The then leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage,[...]" AssanEcho (talk) 13:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

: +1 120.16.4.54 (talk) 04:33, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't have the edit privilege needed to edit this page. Perhaps it should refer to it as a nation, because that might not have the same association with outside recognition. Even unofficially, almost no maps of the world show Somaliland as a separate country, even though it is a autonomous and governs its own territory. At least most of them show North Korea as a country, and a decent share of them show Kosovo, which has some recognition by UN members, as a country. Semantism2 (talk) 17:51, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:We do say that it's an unrecognized country right in the first sentence so no reader would be misled. As far as I know this is commonly used wording. Alaexis_¿question? 21:23, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

::@Alaexis Why not replace "country" with "state" in that first sentence? Wouldn't that make it more precise? Semantism2 (talk) 21:29, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:::I don't see much difference, either could work. Let's see what other editors think. Alaexis_¿question? 21:44, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

::::There's no difference, and when we have one people suggest the other. CMD (talk) 03:21, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::::The current lead sentence does not include the explanation “Many countries recognize it as part of Somalia”, so it needs to be improved. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:08, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::@Freetrashbox All of them recognize it as a region of Somalia. Semantism2 (talk) 17:24, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::The Republic of China recognizes it. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:14, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::There isn't really any dependency between UN recognition and whether a spatial object can be described using the word "country". Using the word "state" would go in the wrong direction wouldn't it? States rely on recognition from other states to become a state. Sean.hoyland (talk) 13:22, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Ah, I see what you mean now. I somehow missed the 'unrecognised' prefix. Unrecognized state does seem more precise to me. Sean.hoyland (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::@Sean.hoyland What about 'nation'? Semantism2 (talk) 17:09, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Shouldn't Wikipedia articles be written according to the WP:NPOV policy? Semantism2 (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::https://www.economist.com/1843/2024/08/29/inside-somaliland-the-state-eager-to-become-the-worlds-next-country

::::::::::While it is autonomous, it's not on most world maps and is not a UN member of observer. Semantism2 (talk) 17:15, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Neither is England and that's usually called a country. Country is a very malleable word, it doesn't have the strict meanings you are giving it. Switching between country, state, and nation is just shifting the deckchairs, see how Sean.hoyland has different associations for those words. CMD (talk) 18:38, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::@Chipmunkdavis England is unambigously a constituent country of the United Kingdom. Semantism2 (talk) 19:05, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::If that is unambiguous then there is no overarching association with outside recognition. You can't have it both ways. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:41, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Nation generally has a somewhat different meaning even if the word is sometimes used as a synonym for a state, as suggested by our article on the concept. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:02, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::@Cordless Larry Yes

:::::::::: I am aware that there's a difference between the two. Semantism2 (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:No changes needed. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:42, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

:Oppose referring to it as a "State". This could easily mislead people to think it is part of Somalia. Somalia is a Federal republic and its first-level subdivisions are referred to as "states" and Somaliland had been independent since the 90s 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:55, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

:International recognition does not matter. It is still a de facto independent country. 120.16.4.54 (talk) 04:35, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

No country recognize and it doesn’t have define border, so isn’t a region of Somalia Culture221211 (talk) 13:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 12:00, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

:Not really, Somalia doesn't have control over this land. It is a de facto country. 120.16.4.54 (talk) 04:36, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Somaliland didn't declared independence please correct this statement of our history.

Somaliland declared state continuity in 1991, Somaliland gained it's independence 26th of June 1960 and it's not de facto state it's de jure sovereign state.

The state of Somaliland and UN trusteeship territory of somalia didn't united in 1st July 1960, this statement also incorrect their is no ratified act of union signed by the two parliament and their is no volunteer union it was illegal occupation of sovereign independent state. According to UN charter article 102 obligated every treaty signed countries must registered UN secretariat so, you can't find treaty of union that's why it was a illegal occupation.

Sakariye Mahamoud (talk) 08:43, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

It seems to me that the area of Somaliland has two versions, one states 137,600 sq. km, another one states 176,120 sq. km. For a small country, 40,000 sq. km is a HUGE difference.

After conducting a quick research, it seems to me that 137,600 sq. km is the area claimed by the Somaliland Government, but somehow it controls more land than it claims. 176,120 sq. km seems to be the area under its de facto control. Somaliland could be the only de facto state which controls more land than it claims. Maybe they are holding more land as a buffer zone between itself and Somalia. If this is true, I reckon we should change the area of Somaliland to 137,600 sq. km since the extra 40,000 sq. km would be considered foreign land under military occupation, similar like Crimea.

Sources stating 137,600 sq. km as the area of Somaliland:

1. https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/factbox-what-is-somaliland-idUSL6376386/
2. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/2/24/africas-isolated-state
3. https://www.arabnews.com/node/234968
4. https://www.somalilandbiz.com/country-profile/
5. https://somalilandtours.com/somaliland-map/
6. https://www.afdb.org/fileadmin/uploads/afdb/Documents/Environmental-and-Social-Assessments/Somaliland_-_Water_infrastructure_development_for_resilience_in_Somaliland_program_%E2%80%93_ESMF_Summary.pdf

Sources stating 176,120 or 177,000 sq. km as the area of Somaliland:

1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-14115069
2. https://www.radiosomaliland.com/
3. https://www.nationalia.info/profile/62/somaliland
4. https://www.refworld.org/reference/countryrep/irbc/1992/en/93014
5. https://dbpedia.org/page/Somaliland
6. https://artsandculture.google.com/entity/somaliland/m0dkly?hl=en

2001:8003:9078:2401:390F:5296:2CD:527B (talk) 04:45, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

:thumb

:I think 176k is it's total land claimed while 137k is the land under separatist control. Because the one clan enclave does not occupy any territory outside of it's claimed borders- instead it actually controls less then it claims due to the presence of Unionist forces in the area. Mohamedamin120 (talk) 15:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Proposal for Clarification of Legal Status and Historical Context of Somaliland:

I propose an update to reflect that the so-called union between Somaliland and Somalia in 1960 was never legally ratified by a binding constitutional or parliamentary agreement. Somaliland achieved internationally recognised independence from Britain on 26 June 1960 before entering into a planned union with Somalia on 1 July 1960. However, no Act of Union was signed by both parties in a legally binding manner. Instead of a formal legal merger, Somaliland was effectively annexed by Somalia. This led to decades of marginalisation, systemic oppression, and ultimately, the Isaaq genocide in the late 1980s. In 1991, following the collapse of the government of Somalia, Somaliland reasserted its sovereignty and has since functioned as a stable, democratic, and self-governing entity within its former colonial borders.

This historical and legal context, supported by numerous academic and human rights sources, supports the argument that Somaliland’s status should be more accurately reflected in the article—not merely as a self-declared state, but one with a strong case for de jure legitimacy. 2A00:23CC:EC0D:AD01:D56E:866A:F8BA:85BF (talk) 14:36, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:propose the change then, in the WP:EDITXY format 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:19, 16 June 2025 (UTC)