Talk:Tamil language#A few paragraphs

{{edit semi-protected|Tamil language|answered=yes}}

Term Dravidian was coined by Robert Caldwell during 19 century,how could tamil be classified under Dravidian languages.classification in incorrectly done 2402:E280:2016:128:D0AC:A3C1:8031:1F9C (talk) 13:54, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:Not done. Tamil is Dravidian, per all scholarship on the topic. Warrenᚋᚐᚊᚔ 15:20, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:To actually answer your question: A huge number of language families didn't exist by name until the 1800s, that doesn't mean they didn't exist. Contemporary linguistics is a relatively recent topic and we've had a lot of success with constructing families of related languages. Warrenᚋᚐᚊᚔ 15:27, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

The second number should read 100,000 based on the quoted source. (1 lakh is 100,000) Supcmd (talk) 05:46, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Tamil language|answered=y}}

|atu avaratu panam. na:n

pe:na:vai avanitam kotutten.

|Atu avaratu panam. na:n

pe:na:ve avankitte kotutten.

|It is his money

I gave the pen to him

Should be

|atu avaratu panam.

na:n pe:na:vai avanitam kotutten.

|Atu avaro:da panam.

na: pe:na:va avankitte kotuttæn.

|It is his money

I gave the pen to him

Under the "Spoken and literary variants" Pixelpito (talk) 19:40, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{partly done}}: I found the cited source online and the same chart is in it (page 47, for the record). There was a mistake in our article, but not exactly what you suggested as the correction. Since I don't speak Tamil, I went with what the cited source says. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:43, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

This is a very interesting topic! Thank you! Pranathia55555 (talk) 06:57, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

:No problem :) Denninithan (talk) 04:49, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I request an editor to correct the spelling of the alternative writing from 'Tamizhil' to 'Tamizh'. Code-72 (talk) 03:45, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

What's so special about the Tamil language (not Tamil people)?

Praveen Kumar

"Tamil Civilization: The Forgotten Scientific Legacy That Shaped the Ancient World"

🔸 Introduction: The Oldest Living Civilization

The Tamil civilization, with an uninterrupted history spanning over 6,000 years, is one of the oldest living cultures on Earth. Often overshadowed in mainstream narratives, its contributions to science, spirituality, medicine, arts, and architecture are not only foundational to Indian civilization but also to human civilization itself. Despite modern political and colonial attempts to suppress or rewrite this legacy, archaeology, literature, and astronomical evidence speak volumes about Tamil supremacy in ancient knowledge systems.

----🕉️ 1. Contributions to Science and Spirituality

🧪 Siddha Medicine – The First Scientific Medical System

·       Siddha is one of the oldest documented medical sciences in the world.

·       Pioneered by 18 Siddhars, especially Agathiyar, it deals with: Herbology Pulse diagnosis (Nadi Pariksha) Alchemical treatments (Mercury, arsenic purification) Spiritual-physical integration

·       It uses the Pancha Bootham (5 elements) model—air, water, fire, earth, space—which predates modern biochemical understanding.

🧘‍♂️ Yoga, Meditation & Astral Sciences

·       Tamil texts discuss astral travel, Kundalini awakening, and chakra systems.

·       Thirumoolar’s Thirumanthiram outlines scientific yoga, anatomy, and consciousness with high precision.

·       Jothidam (Sothidam became jothidam)(Tamil astrology), based on sidereal astronomy, surpasses Western astrology in accuracy.

----🔭 2. Astronomy and Temple Precision

📡 Longitude-Aligned Temples: Ancient GPS?

·       Temples like Chidambaram, Thiruvannamalai, Jambukeswaram, Kumbakonam, and Rameswaram are aligned on the exact longitude 79° 41′ E.

·       This shows: Mastery in latitude-longitude mapping Geodetic knowledge and use of gnomon shadows for measuring Earth's curvature Use of stellar navigation for temple construction

🌌 Five Sacred Stars of Tamil Astronomy

1.     Thiruvadhirai – Shiva's dance of creation and destruction

2.     Pooram – Shakti energy; used in artistic and ritual timings

3.     Uthiram – Celestial marriages; symbol of union

4.     Revathi – Astral travel and mysticism

5.     Rohini – Agricultural cycles and divine timing (Krishna’s birth star)

These weren’t myths—they were stellar markers in temple alignment, agriculture, and ritual.

----3. Bharatanatyam – The World’s Oldest Codified Dance Form

Tamil Origin, Not Pan-Indian

Bharatanatyam is often wrongly portrayed as a “pan-Indian classical dance,” but its origins are deeply rooted in Tamil Nadu and the Tamil Saiva tradition. It evolved from Sadir, a temple dance performed by Devadasis in Tamil temples, especially in Chidambaram and Thanjavur.

·       Bharata refers not to the North Indian sage, but to: Bha – Bhava (emotion or expression in Tamil) Ra – Raga (melody) Ta – Tala (rhythm)

·       Natyam means “dance” in Tamil .

Chidambaram – The Cosmic Stage

·       The Chidambaram temple is considered the original stage (Koothambalam) for Bharatanatyam.

·       The Nataraja (Dancing Shiva) icon embodies the Ananda Tandava – the cosmic dance of creation, sustenance, and dissolution.

·       Every Bharatanatyam performance is a ritual, a cosmic reenactment, not mere entertainment.

The Dance of Physics and Metaphysics

Bharatanatyam isn't just aesthetic—it’s scientific:

·       108 Karanas (dance poses) are documented in Natya Shastra, but these are sculpturally represented only in Tamil temples.

·       These Karanas correlate with chakra activation, body-mind alignment, and geometry of movement.

·       The dance's geometry follows the Mandala system – using square, circular, and triangular postures aligned with energy flow.

Mathematical Precision

·       Tala system (rhythmic cycles) used in Bharatanatyam predates modern musical notation.

·       Patterns like Adi Tala (8 beats), Rupaka Tala (3 beats), and complex Jathis involve mathematical progression.

·       The symmetry in footwork and Anga Shuddhi (purity of limbs) shows deep anatomical awareness.

Devotional and Philosophical Core

·       Performances center around Shaiva, Vaishnava, and Shakta traditions of Tamil Bhakti poetry.

·       Themes include stories from Tevaram, Thiruvachagam, and Divya Prabandham – all Tamil sources.

·       The Abhinaya (expression) is used not just to entertain but to invoke and awaken spiritual insight.

----Why Bharatanatyam is Tamil Science in Motion

·       Rooted in temple architecture and Siddha yogic concepts.

·       Designed for resonance with sound vibrations inside granite temple halls.

·       Created to synchronize body movements with cosmic rhythms – a form of moving meditation and spiritual alignment.

Bharatanatyam is not just dance—it is Tamil yoga, temple ritual, mathematical pattern, emotional storytelling, and spiritual engineering rolled into one.

The world may call it Indian classical dance. But its heartbeat, its grammar, and its soul are purely, indigenously Tamil.

----🎶 4. Tamil’s Musical Mastery: From Panns to Carnatic

🪕 Origins of Carnatic Music

·       Tamil Pann Isai was the precursor to Carnatic ragas. E.g., Kurinji pann → Raga Kurinji Sevvazhi pann, Paḻam pann, Nattai pann also evolved into major ragas.

·       Tamil music laid the framework of: Ezhu Swarangal (7 Notes): Sa-Ri-Ga-Ma-Pa-Da-Ni Raga-Rasa mapping to emotions

🥁 Musical Instruments

·       Yaazh – Early harp

·       Parai, Murasu, Udukkai – Martial, religious, and folk use

·       These instruments predate and inspired later Indian percussion forms

🎶 Swarangal, Ragams & Tamil’s Musical Legacy

Ancient Tamil Music

·       Sangam era Pann Isai predated Carnatic music. “Pann” is equivalent to “Raga.”

·       Each Pann had emotional and spiritual associations like: Sevvazhi Pann (joy) Paḻam Pann (sorrow) Kurinji Pann (love)

·       Panns evolved into Ragams, and many Carnatic ragas still bear Tamil roots: Kurinji (from Pann Kurinji) Nattai, Kambhoji, Bhairavi are examples found in ancient Tamil temples.

Swarangal (Musical Notes)

·       Tamil music follows the seven fundamental notes:

Sa – Ri – Ga – Ma – Pa – Da – Ni

These are known as Ezhu Isai Swarangal.

·       These same swaras form the foundation of Carnatic music today.

Tamil Instrument Contribution

·       Yaazh: String instrument akin to harp

·       Parai: Drum used in martial and spiritual contexts

·       Murasu, Kudamuzha, Udukkai — temple and war instruments These influenced later percussion in Carnatic concerts

----🛕 5. Hindu Worship & Temple Systems: A Tamil Invention

📜 Agama Texts & Temple Worship

·       Tamil Nadu preserved Agamic traditions even as they disappeared elsewhere.

·       Siva temples, Murugan worship, Ayyanar shrines are purely Tamil in origin.

·       Tamil Bhakti movement: Nayanmars & Alwars democratized spirituality. Tamil hymns like Thevaram and Thiruvachagam are used in temple rituals even today.

----🧠 6. Tools, Strategy, Knowledge Systems

🧩 Chess (Sathurangam)

·       Originated in Tamil lands as Sathurangam

·       Concepts like King, Queen, Chariot, Elephant all map to modern chess

·       Showcases early war strategy and logical thinking

🧰 Tools, Weapons & Craft

·       Tamil blacksmiths and sculptors created: Iron-smelting crucibles Bronze icons with micrometer-level precision Weapons mentioned in Silappathikaram & Sangam epics

·       Tools were often aligned with cosmic designs (mandalas).

----📚 7. Sacred Texts & Literary Legacy

·       Tholkappiyam – The oldest surviving grammar book in the world

·       Purananuru & Ettuthokai – Document real-time history, kings, and ethics

·       Silappathikaram – Combines astronomy, city planning, commerce, and law

----📅 8. The Tamil Calendar: A Scientific Timekeeper Rooted in the Cosmos

📜 Ancient Origins

·       The Tamil Calendar is over 2,000 years old, with roots in Sangam literature and astronomical observations.

·       It is still in use today in Tamil Nadu, Sri Lanka, and among the Tamil diaspora—making it a living legacy, unlike many extinct calendars.

·       It is based on the sidereal solar cycle (position of the Sun against fixed stars), not just the Moon, giving it astronomical accuracy.

🗓️ Structure

·       12 Months, aligned with zodiac signs (similar to the Gregorian calendar in count, but not names or alignments).

·       Each month begins when the Sun enters a new zodiac sign (called Sankranti).

·       7-Day Week, just like the Gregorian, based on celestial bodies (Sun-Sunday, Moon-Monday, etc.)

·       60-Year Cycle (like the Chinese system), each year has a unique name and is cyclically repeated.

🪐 Astronomical Precision

·       Calculations are based on surya-siddhanta and indigenous Tamil astronomical texts.

·       Used for: Agricultural alignment (harvests, rains, seasons) Temple rituals and festivals Astrological predictions (Jothidam) with naksatras (stars) and raasis (zodiac signs)

·       Months correspond to actual seasonal shifts, not arbitrary dates.

🌞 Why It’s Scientific

·       Solar entry into zodiac is observable and measurable.

·       Nakshatra (star-based) system used for time measurement is far older than Greco-Roman constellations.

·       Used in daily almanacs (Panchangams), it includes: Sunrise/sunset Planetary transitions Rahu/Ketu periods Auspicious timings (Muhurtham)

🔄 Gregorian Influence?

·       The Tamil calendar predates the Gregorian (which was revised in 1582).

·       However, both calendars: Have 12 months Have 7-day weeks Are solar-based

·       Unlike Gregorian, Tamil calendar includes spiritual, astrological, and seasonal precision that Western timekeeping lacks.

🌍 Conclusion: Tamil is Not Just a Language, It’s a Civilization

Tamil civilization wasn’t regional—it was global in vision and universal in its science. It gave the world:

·       Astronomy without telescopes

·       Medicine without side effects

·       Music based on frequencies and moods

·       Architecture aligned with Earth’s magnetic field

·       A philosophy of oneness (Aham Brahmasmi) embedded in daily life

What was buried or distorted during colonial and Aryan re-narration is now reemerging. And it’s our duty to restore it—not just with pride, but with proof.

Ppk22772 (talk) 15:03, 2 June 2025 (UTC)