Template:Did you know nominations/Pholidoteuthis adami

{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Talk|{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Template|Category:Passed DYK nominations from March 2025|}}

:The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 12:11, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

{{DYK nompage links|nompage=Pholidoteuthis adami|Pholidoteuthis adami}}

... that the male pink scaled squid Pholidoteuthis adami mates upside down, and mates for longer than other species of squid?

{{smalldiv|1=

Source: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/BBLv223n3p263}}
Reviewed:
Comment: Would be better if here was an image of the behavior, but the licensing is hard to find (citation has a NOAA image, but paper isn't open access)

{{smalldiv|1=Created by {{user0|Anthropophoca}}.

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.}}

Anthropophoca (talk) 11:08, 30 March 2025 (UTC).

{{DYK checklist

|newness = y

|length = y

|sourced = You should address the "[verification needed]" and "[additional citation(s) needed]" templates per WP:DYKCITE. If you think these tags were a mistake, you may justify their removal.

|neutral = y

|plagiarismfree = y

|policyother =

|hookcited = y

|hookinterest = y

|hookother = The hook should specify how much "longer" the pink scaled squid mates in comparison to other species of squid. As quoted in WP:DYKINT: {{tq|The hook should be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest|q=y}}

|qpq = NA

|status =

|comments = {{ping|Anthropophoca}} New enough (created March 30), article is long enough, NPOV, hook is cited to a RS and QPQ is not needed. [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Pholidoteuthis_adami Earwig] shows a "violation unlikely" result with 7.4% similarity. However, there are a couple of issues that need to be addressed before it can meet the standards for DYK. The article includes a few claims that require additional sourcing, particularly the details about the prolonged mating behavior of the male squid and its comparison to other species. To meet WP:DYKCITE, the article should address the "[verification needed]" and "[additional citation(s) needed]" templates and ensure that all facts are properly referenced.

While the hook mentions that mating is prolonged, it could be clarified further ("mates for longer than other species of squid" is vague—how much longer?). Specifying how much longer this mating process lasts compared to other squid species would help eliminate any ambiguity and strengthen the hook. Additionally, the subject of the hook, "pink scaled squid", should be boldlinked to the article Pholidoteuthis adami for consistency with DYK guidelines. For example, may I suggest an alternative hook for ALT0A: "... that the male pink scaled squid mates upside down and holds the female for a prolonged period, much longer than other squid species?". Cattos ^💭 15:05, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

|sign =

}}

:{{ping|Cathodography}} Is it not ok if the hook is vague, but the details are further explained in the article? The original source had this to say on the matter "During in situ observations with the ROVs, both pairs were encountered very close to the bottom but not resting on it. The bright lights of the ROV did not seem to disturb the mating pairs at all. The first pair was recorded for 18 s; the second for 1 min and 50 s", which to me sounds like they did not record the mating process in its entirety.

:The comparison with other squid species is made here: "Because spermatangia have been found implanted seemingly nonselectively at various locations on some mated female deep-sea squid, mating is thought to happen quickly (1, 1). In P. adami, however, mating is not swift. The P. adami male was seemingly holding the female very firmly, and mating was prolonged. The opening of the terminal organ of the museum specimen is narrow and suggests that only one spermatophore is released at a time....The successful implantation of 15–20 spermatangia probably takes some time." The other squid species in question is Octopoteuthis deletron, whose page is explicitly linked in the relevant segment of the DYK candidate, and the page on O. deletron also mentions the mating behavior.

:Hence, I do not think that the hook needs to explain the phenomena in its entirety, though I'm always open to differences in wording, and perhaps i should explain exactly how many spermatangia were implanted in the museum specimen. I will track down the additional citation needed, though i suspect that the second citation on that page already gives enough information. Cheers, Anthropophoca (talk) 15:51, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::I believe I've addressed the issue, though as stated in the hidden comments, I believe the article could use the recordings of the mating process, which should be in the Public Domain (Sourced from NOAA), but I couldn't verify the copyright at this time. Help to upload and verify this video would be greatly appreciated.Anthropophoca (talk) 16:29, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::16px You're right. Sorry for wasting your time. I believe that the nomination is good to go now. Cattos ^💭 16:43, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:::16px {{ping|Anthropophoca|Cathodography}} I don't see how the cited sources verify "longer than other species of squid". Since they are talking about how difficult it is to observe squids mating, this makes it sound like it would be hard to have a frame of reference for their mating behaviors in general. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:39, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Rjjiii}} The hook is a bit vague, I'll admit, but the "other squid species" being referred to is Octopoteuthis deletron, which you might recognize as the bisexual driveby-mating squid. You're right that i would need to add references to other species, and i'll add a passage referring to the hectocotylus of other squid shortly.Anthropophoca (talk) 00:53, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Cattos, I don't understand how you approved a hook that wasn't properly formatted: the article being nominated needs to have a bold link to it at the very least! I've addressed this now, but please be sure that hooks meet the DYK formatting requirements before approving a nomination. Thanks. Rjjiii, I see that the nominator added some material back on April 27; if that satisfies your concerns, might you be willing to approve the nomination anew? Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::{{u|BlueMoonset}}, my concern is with the "longer than other species of squid" wording which is still used in the hook, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::{{u|Rjjiii}} How should i go about altering the hook then?Anthropophoca (talk) 23:14, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

{{reply to|Anthropophoca|BlueMoonset}} I don't have a specific suggestion, but it needs to be worded in a way that a reader could verify the hook from a cited source in order to meet WP:V. In this case, the source would support something like:

ALT1 ... that the male pink scaled squid Pholidoteuthis adami mates upside down to extend mating duration.

Feel free to cross that one out if you are not interested in using it, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:24, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{u|Rjjiii}} Would changing the source work out? [https://insider.si.edu/2013/01/first-detailed-sex-video-of-deep-sea-squid-penetrates-long-standing-mysteries-as-to-how-these-animals-mate/ This article] mentions the fact that mating is longer than expected and quotes one of the authors of the paper, and it is already a citation on the page supporting the passage.Anthropophoca (talk) 12:04, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

::{{reply to|Anthropophoca}} I still don't see "{{tq|One thing that surprised pretty much all of the cephalopod people was how long the mating process lasted. In this species the spermatophores inject sperm deep into the muscle of the female’s dorsal mantle. Because of this we guessed their mating was a really quick process in which the male darts in, shoots the female and then leaves. The video reveals it is a long process where the male is basically hanging on motionless for a long time.}}" as supporting the original hook. I'd suggest posting to WT:DYK to get some input from folks on possible hooks. Good luck, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:23, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

::{{reply to|Anthropophoca}} Staircase thought: that source might also support something like:

::* ALT2 ... that researchers were surprised at how long the male pink scaled squid Pholidoteuthis adami could mate upside down?

:: I don't have strong feelings on what would make a good hook for this. It just needs to be a fact that reader could find in a cited source in the article. I'll probably post to WT:DYK to get more input before this times out, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:11, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Is simply "ALT3 ... that the male pink scaled squid Pholidoteuthis adami has been observed to mate upside down?" problematic? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:02, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::16px How could it be problematic if it is two consenting adult squids? I think ALT3 raises the question of "why?" for a reader, who, if they choose to click through, will have that answered by the article (to increase the duration relative to other squids). I'll approve ALT3 so that at least one hook is ready for promotion. {{u|Cathodography}}, do you feel this is now good to go? {{u|Anthropophoca}}, if you want to workshop other hooks, you're welcome to, but this nomination is one of the oldest and therefore may be promoted soon, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:23, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::: I'm fine with ALT3. Cattos ^💭 00:49, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::: {{u|Rjjiii}} Go ahead then Anthropophoca (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

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