Template talk:Cite video game

Maybe the Language variable could be reworked to work with {{tl|languageicon}}-based templates? Great idea, btw. Circeus 01:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

:It doesn't do that in the other citation templates. I'm trying to keep a similar style (or at least until the correct one can be found). Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

::It's because most of the time, the language is not used by the template itself. {{tl|cite book}} and {{tl|cite web}} are exceptions in this regard (possibly because they are the most commonly used such templates with foreign languages sources). Maybe drop the field altogether? Circeus 15:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

:::Regional differences between games can be huge, which is why it is important to specify the edition. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 12:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I gave it a try. Testing now:

::::*{{cite video game

| title = World of Warcraft

| developer = Blizzard Entertainment

| publisher = Vivendi Universal

| date = 2004-11-23

| platform = Mac OS X

| version = 1.0

| level = Brill

| language = Japanese

| isolang = ja

}}

The documentation for language says 'language: language of publication (don't specify spanish" as this is the default)'. Should this be English instead? I have reverted it back to the original English version, since the person who changed it also removed the platform line and left no comment regarding the change. ScottSteiner (talk) 18:08, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

At time of writing, in the article Sonic the Hedgehog (character), {{cite video game |title=Shadow the Hedgehog |developer=Sonic Team |publisher=Sega |date=2005-11-15}} produces

:24. {{

1. if: {{#if: Sonic Team | {{#if: Shadow the Hedgehog |1 }} }}

|| Error on call to template:cite video game: Parameters title and developer must be specified

}}{{#if: {{{isolang|}}}

|{{{{{isolang}}} icon}} 

}}{{#if: Shadow the Hedgehog

| {{#if: Sonic Team

| Sonic Team. Shadow the Hedgehog{{#if: Sega

| Sega.

}} {{#if: {{{platform|}}}

| {{{platform}}}{{#if: {{{version|}}}

| , (v{{{version}}})

}}.

}} {{#if: {{{level|}}}

| Level/area: {{{level}}}

}}{{#if: {{{language|}}}

| (in {{{language}}})

}}.

}}

}}{{#if: 2005-11-15

| 2005-11-15.

}}

in the references section. I don't think this is specific to the article.

This appears to stem from the "level" field. I'd fix it, (I have previously made an esoteric template,) but I'm not letting my editing skills touch a citation template like this with a barge pole. Too much could go wrong if you let me at it. ;-) --DavidHOzAu 08:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

:The problem wss that the period after the "language" if was not removed along it. I solved that.

:Circeus 13:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

::Ah, so that's what was wrong! Thanks for fixing it for me. --DavidHOzAu 01:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a period after the game title? --SevereTireDamage 04:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Having used this template multiple times at various articles, I was wondering if perhaps we could turn the title, developer, etc. fields all the way to language a different color or style, to differentiate between quotes and the reference. See the refs on Characters in the Halo series, for example (I don't use the quote parameter because I like the quotes before the refs, personal pref) - to try and make it more obvious where the game information started, I was using dashes. David Fuchs ^(talk) 22:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I was considering using this template for citing some of the Command & Conquer games. However, the trouble is that most of what's worth citing in those games occur during ingame cutscenes. Sometimes, different missions lead to the same cutscene (and sometimes they don't), so it's kind of ugly if you try to cite them as being part of a certain level. Also, the intro cutscenes for those games (the ones that play right after you launch the game) are typically cite-worthy, but don't have any level associated with it. I don't suppose that a "cutscene" field could be added to accomodate games like these? Or is there some better way to cite using the existing template in a manner that I'm not thinking of. -Thunderforge (talk) 02:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

:Why not just put the cutscene in the level/area field? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 02:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

::The trouble would be that for cutscenes that aren't part of a level, you'd have something like "Level/area: Intro cutscene," which just looks weird. -Thunderforge (talk) 23:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

New code to use {{tl|citation}}. Old code still in effect until citation updated to support software and video games.

{{

if: {{#if: {{{developer|}}} | {{{title|}}} }}

|| Error on call to template:cite video game: Parameters title and developer must be specified
}}{{Citation/core
|Citation class=video-game
|Surname1 = {{{last|{{{surname|{{{last1|{{{surname1|{{{author1|{{{author|{{{authors|{{{author|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
|Surname2 = {{{last2|{{{surname2|{{{author2|{{{coauthor|{{{coauthors|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
|Surname3 = {{{last3|{{{surname3|{{{author3|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname4 = {{{last4|{{{surname4|{{{author4|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname5 = {{{last5|{{{surname5|{{{author5|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname6 = {{{last6|{{{surname6|{{{author6|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname7 = {{{last7|{{{surname7|{{{author7|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname8 = {{{last8|{{{surname8|{{{author8|}}}}}}}}}
|Surname9 = {{{last9|{{{surname9|{{{author9|}}}}}}}}}
|Given1 = {{{first1|{{{given1|{{{first|{{{given|}}}}}}}}}}}}
|Given2 = {{{first2|{{{given2|}}}}}}
|Given3 = {{{first3|{{{given3|}}}}}}
|Given4 = {{{first4|{{{given4|}}}}}}
|Given5 = {{{first5|{{{given5|}}}}}}
|Given6 = {{{first6|{{{given6|}}}}}}
|Given7 = {{{first7|{{{given7|}}}}}}
|Given8 = {{{first8|{{{given8|}}}}}}
|Given9 = {{{first9|{{{given9|}}}}}}
|Authorlink1 = {{{author-link|{{{author1-link|{{{authorlink|{{{authorlink1|}}}}}}}}}}}}
|Authorlink2 = {{{author2-link|{{{authorlink2|}}}}}}
|Authorlink3 = {{{author3-link|{{{authorlink3|}}}}}}
|Authorlink4 = {{{author4-link|{{{authorlink4|}}}}}}
|Authorlink5 = {{{author5-link|{{{authorlink5|}}}}}}
|Authorlink6 = {{{author6-link|{{{authorlink6|}}}}}}
|Authorlink7 = {{{author7-link|{{{authorlink7|}}}}}}
|Authorlink8 = {{{author8-link|{{{authorlink8|}}}}}}
|Authorlink9 = {{{author9-link|{{{authorlink9|}}}}}}
|Year={{{year|{{    
#if: {{{date|}}}
|{{
#iferror:{{#time:Y|{{{date|}}} }}
|{{#iferror:{{#time:Y|{{{publication-date|einval}}} }}||{{#time:Y|{{{publication-date|}}} }}}}
|{{#time:Y|{{{date|}}} }}
}}
|{{{publication-date|}}} 
}}
}}}
|YearNote = {{{origyear|}}}
|Date = {{#if:{{{date|}}}|{{{date}}}|{{{day|}}} {{{month|}}} {{{year|{{{publication-date|}}}}}}}}
|Developer = {{{developer}}}
|Title={{{title}}}
|TransTitle={{{trans_chapter|}}}
|TransItalic={{{trans_title|}}}
|URL={{{url|}}}
|Series={{{series|}}}
|Volume = {{{volume|}}}
|Issue = {{{issue|{{{number|}}}}}}
|IncludedWorkTitle = {{{chapter|{{{contribution|}}}}}}
|IncludedWorkURL = {{{chapter-url|{{{chapterurl|{{{contribution-url|}}}}}}}}}
|Other = {{{others|}}}
|Edition = {{{edition|}}}
|Place = {{{place|{{{location|}}}}}}
|Platform = {{{platform|}}}
|PublicationPlace = {{{publication-place|{{{place|{{{location|}}}}}}}}}
|Publisher = {{{publisher|}}}
|PublicationDate = {{{publication-date|}}}
|language = {{{language|{{{in|}}}}}}
|format = {{{format|}}}
|ID={{{id|{{{ID|}}}}}}
|AccessDate={{{access-date|{{{accessdate|}}}}}}
|DateFormat={{{dateformat|none}}}
|quote = {{{quote|}}}
|laysummary = {{{laysummary|}}}
|laydate = {{{laydate|}}}
|Ref={{{ref|}}}
|Sep = {{{separator|{{{seperator|.}}}}}}
|PS = {{#if:{{{quote|}}}||{{{postscript|.}}}}}
|amp = {{{lastauthoramp|}}}
}}

Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

isbn or other retail identifier code is missing as well as trans_title.陣内_Jinnai 22:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

These are taken from some reliable sources for citing:

• [http://people.uleth.ca/~cleada/docs/SampleCitations%28Turabian%29.pdf Chicago]
• [http://www.cws.illinois.edu/workshop/writers/citation/apa/software/ computer software - APA]
• MLA doesn't have anything for citing software, let alone video games

:The issue with the generic software one is a lot of that doesn't apply 1:1 for video games. FE: Developer and publisher are often different, the producer or lead designer matters more than a programmer, video games often span multiple discs, can vary wildly as things progress, and video games have a narrative structure similar to books/movies.陣内_Jinnai 19:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I created {{tl|Cite video game/sandbox2}} to include all standard features with video game specific fields.

;Current

{{pre2|{{cite video game |title=Halo 3 |developer=Bungie |publisher=Microsoft Game Studios |date=September 25, 2007 |platform=Xbox 360 |version=1.0 |level=The Storm |quote=Arbiter: More Brutes? / Master Chief: Worse.}}}}

{{cite video game |title=Halo 3 |developer=Bungie |publisher=Microsoft Game Studios |date=September 25, 2007 |platform=Xbox 360 |version=1.0 |level=The Storm |quote=Arbiter: More Brutes? / Master Chief: Worse.}}

;Sandbox2

{{pre2|{{Cite video game/sandbox2 |title=Halo 3 |developer=Bungie |publisher=Microsoft Game Studios |date=September 25, 2007 |platform=Xbox 360 |version=1.0 |level=The Storm |scene=1 |disc=2|jan=1234567890 |ean=1234567890 |quote=Arbiter: More Brutes? / Master Chief: Worse.}}}}

{{Cite video game/sandbox2 |title=Halo 3 |developer=Bungie |publisher=Microsoft Game Studios |date=September 25, 2007 |platform=Xbox 360 |version=1.0 |level=The Storm |scene=1 |disc=2|jan=1234567890 |ean=1234567890 |quote=Arbiter: More Brutes? / Master Chief: Worse.}}

Needs a few tweaks, but should be good for discussion. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:3 things:

:*The developer and publisher should say Developed by and Published by as that is standard practice for citing.

:*It the {lead) designer piped through author. The rest is mostly in core.

:*If we are going to have level be dealt like thar we need another field: |area= for games that are based around areas, not levels, like RPGs.陣内_Jinnai 19:47, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Mad a few more updates:

• Added level
• Fixed separators

{{pre2|{{Cite video game/sandbox2 |last=last |first=first |title=title |chapter=chapter |developer=developer |publisher=publisher |date=date |platform=platform |version=version |level=level |scene=scene |disc=disc |area=area |jan=jan |ean=ean |quote=quote}}}}

{{Cite video game/sandbox2 |last=last |first=first |title=title |chapter=chapter |developer=developer |publisher=publisher |date=date |platform=platform |version=version |level=level |scene=scene |disc=disc |area=area |jan=jan |ean=ean |quote=quote}}

The standard {{para|last}} and {{para|first}} are supported.

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:00, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

• Does this version have publisher listed as "Published by XXXX"? As I mentioned before, that's standard practice for citing video games. Other than that, adding in the chapter field (should be in core) and I think this be ready to bring up to a wider group at WP:VG (since they'll be most affected). They might want some more stuff, but I think the rest should be in core.∞陣内Jinnai 00:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

:'Published by' added; chapter already supported. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

::I say it's rather difficult using the "chapter" or makes it rather complicated. Not all games will number nor name their levels or even have chapters.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:39, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

:::All parameters are optional. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

::::Just like {{tl|cite book}} has tons of parameters that aren't always used, so to would this one. Just as not every book has an editor, not every video game has chapters.∞陣内Jinnai 16:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::Once the update is implemented, I will update the documentation. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:28, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Unless there is a policy/guideline against it, I'd say title should be required because if all the other info is filled out, without the title nothing can be known. On the other hand if someone is lazy and just wants to add the title there is the possibility the info can still be extracted. We don't have a series parameter so there's no reason for people to not be using a title.∞陣内Jinnai 04:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

::::::::{{para|title}} and {{para|developer}} are required in the current template. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 10:47, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::I wouldn't add developer as required. There have been a few cases I've not found a developer for older games.∞陣内Jinnai 15:41, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::The current template requires both. Title required added. I just noticed that with the current template {{para|level}} shows "Level/area" . Any issues with it being separated? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:58, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

{{unindent}}

Yea, developer is required atm, much to my frustration at times. I don't know why. Maybe its because we couldn't do an either/or of developer/publisher. However it shouldn't in the new version because there are a few older titles where the developer isn't known and you'd end up with developer needing to be filled, usually by the publisher, and thus being an inaccurate citation. As for level/area, that is because some people believe that level/area are the same. In some cases, that's true, but there are a handful of games like .hack. The problem comes in that diplaying "level:" would be inapporpaite for games that are divided into areas and vise versa for "Area:". In theory we could just combine the two and give instructions to the person to be descriptive such as "Level 5 or the Durgoth Ruins" or "Port Prospect".∞陣内Jinnai 17:50, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

:In the sandbox version:

:* {{para|title}} is required, all others are optional

:* has {{para|level}} and {{para|area}}

:* noticed that most uses of {{tl|quote}} include a period, so I removed the automatic period

:---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:22, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

::Comments? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:15, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

:::My suggestion on the level/area/chapter is to default to "level" (the most common scheme) but have a second parameter, which I don't know how to best name, but would be something like "descriptor", where the user can then specify something other than "level". (eg, "area", "section"), or whatever best fits.

:::Alternatively, simply have a "ingame location" parameter where the user needs to spell out exactly how best to represent it, given that proper level/area names should be "quoted", while if the game simply provides chapter/act numbers, they do not need to be quoted. I think this is better than trying to fit a one-size-fits-all approach. --MASEM (t) 23:48, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

::::That is a good idea. Perhaps simply {{para|ingame}} that would not have a prefix, thus could be set freestyle. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:35, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

::::::Well core has a seperate {{para|chapter}} field already and there are plenty of games (especially JRPGs) that are structured by chapters. I'm fine for merging level/area into ingame (although level/area should be piped to ingame). I'm not so sure about chapter as I'm not sure how that one works.

The one major problem is how to distinqush quotes from long descriptions of location at a glance (ie does not require the person to read the entire quote). This is especially problematic for games that may use chapter/level/area/location terminology in the quote.∞陣内Jinnai 03:04, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

:::::::{{para|chapter}} is not supported in the sandbox, but it would show in quotes. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 03:12, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

::::::::I suppose it might work if we piped them altogether. The two issues I mentioned would have to be addressed.

1. How to make certain people could distinquish it from a quote at a glance for long descriptions

2. How to get consistant wording so we don't end up with 500 different ways people think is correct that will only confuse people trying to figure out what's being cited.

Also, does {{para|disc}} display (not in quotes) "Disc: 1". The reason is that there are sometimes numbered discs, but for some games, especially PC games, there are named discs and that was the only method I could think of that would work with a first disc and install disc as "Disc: 1" and "Disc: Install". Finally you may want to pipe alternate spelling for disk/disc as I'm sure if you use just 1 it'll frustrate people.∞陣内Jinnai 03:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

:::{{small|1=Unclosed uses of {{tag|p|o}} replaced to fix subsequent paragraph formatting}}

:1. "could distinquish it from a quote" I don't understand— what is "it."

:2. "consistant wording"— please elaborate

:3. {{para|disc}} would show as "Disc whatever". Adding exclusive field for disk or disc can be done, but add more complexity. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

• Now, why are we changing this in the first place? I think the current version looks nice and clean. Adding all that information to clarify what each field is is unnecessary and messy looking. I would not like to see that in every video game cite. Not to mention, it would look completely different then other citations such as web, book, episode, film, etc. It looks like you two are the only ones wanting this change. Has there been an actual discussion or poll to see if consensus wants this changed? _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 13:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

:See {{tl|citation}} code for use in this template above (July 2009) and the following discussions. I was asked to look at this over a year ago. There is no deadline, so changes will not be implemented until it looks right. Please let us know what issues you see. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

::Quick question, would the first and last parameters refer to the game's writer or designer?

::Also, I agree that developer should not be required. While rare, Jinnai is correct that some older games have ambiguous developer credits. Publisher seems fine to require though. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:37, 14 October 2011 (UTC))

:::{{para|disc}} should be changed to "Disc:". Disc 1 and Disc: 1 are fine either way, but Disc Install is not. Disc: Install is because the colon separates it. Normally that would read "Disc 1" and "Install Disc", but the template can't really handle that.

:::As for publisher, I could see that since publisher would be required for any higher-level review anyway. It may break some existing citations though so if we do it there should be a page to track them.∞陣内Jinnai 03:02, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

::::Closed. After a year of discussion and updates, there is no consensus to update this template. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:38, 2 November 2011 (UTC)