User talk:Oncamera

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Hi,

If the citizenship only should be stated, why the citizenship of the USSR where he spent most of his life is not listed? And also I have seen many times that a person is "Georgian" (not "of Georgian descent") when they never possessed the citizenship of Georgia.

Peutro (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

:The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore so no one has citizenship there. He currently has Latvian and American citizenship. See MOS:CITIZEN. The article introduction 2nd paragraph say he was born into a Russian family as the manual of style states to do.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 17:28, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

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File:Stop hand nuvola.svg Hello {{u|Oncamera}}. Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wes_Studi&diff=prev&oldid=1281414183 this edit] where you reverted the deletion of the Nationality parameter and contents in the Infobox of the Wes Studi article, please review and internalize the following. First, the Wikipedia rules in WP:INFONAT nullify your improper reversion. Per Wikipedia precepts the Nationality parameter cannot be used in the Infobox at all, at any time. Further, in this case the Citizenship parameter cannot be used, as WP:INFONAT reads in part: "Omit when this [Citizenship] can be inferred from the birth country (almost all cases)." Second, per Studi's article lead, he is Native American the Wikipage of which reads: "Native Americans (also called American Indians, First Americans, or Indigenous Americans) are the Indigenous peoples of the United States." If you have other edits using Nationality or, otherwise, violating WP:INFONAT, I suggest that you correct them. Please do not further ignore Wikipedia maxims and continue to revert the subject edit which will result in loss of editing privileges and being blocked for (1) violating Wikipedia's WP:INFONAT rules, (2) apparent vandalism, and (3) for violating Wikipedia's rules on reverting. Trusting in your compliance, regards, Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 07:43, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

:Native Americans are citizens of their nations per MOS:NATIONALITY. Just because he was born in the USA is not sufficient to explain that he has dual citizenship in the Cherokee Nation. His Cherokee nationality is also important to his career as an actor. Use the article talkpage to discuss your changes instead of edit warring.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 08:20, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

::It was not edit warring as I was correct, and you were warring to my edit. The talk page was unnecessary as I was correct with a stated reference to WP:INFONAT. You ignored my edit summary.

::Per the Constitution, persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside, but we don't list state citizenship in the Infobox. MOS:NATIONALITY deals with the lead: "Native American and Indigenous Canadian status is based on citizenship, not ethnicity. Indigenous persons' citizenship can be listed parenthetically, or as a clause after their names". It does not say that it is listed in the Infobox. Further, Subnational citizenship supports this as tribes are Subnational. As it states, "In addition, tribal sovereignty affords members ("citizens") of federally recognized tribes ("nations") a status comparable to local citizenship." We don't list local citizenship in Infoboxes.

::The lead, Early life, and other contents of his article clearly show throughout his citizenship in the Cherokee Nation and his nationality including in regard to his career as an actor. Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 16:01, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

To User:Quaerens-veritatem, Native American tribal citizenship has long been included in the Citizenship parameter because it cannot "can be inferred from birth country". Not all citizens of U.S. federally recognized tribes are citizens of the United States, so tribal citizenships with additional citizenships are listed in the Citizenship parameter. MOS:INFONAT clearly states: "{{green|Citizenship or nationality can be noted if dual. ...}}" Yuchitown (talk) 15:46, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hello {{u|Yuchitown}}. My edit deleted the Nationality parameter. See my reply to oncamera regarding the Citizenship parameter. Although I believe that my synopsis is correct as to Citizenship, from your information that it "has long been included" it seems that I may have an uphill battle that will consume my time and may be difficult to win no matter the logic, so I will leave it be for now. Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 16:09, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

::Sounds good. And I've noted the need for tribal citizenship to be moved from the "Nationality" parameter to the "Citizenship" parameter and begin implementing that in my own edits. Yuchitown (talk) 16:19, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

:::{{u|Yuchitown}} {{Like}} Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

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