User talk:Valereee/Archive 74#Request for advice

As you suggested, it's wiser for me to seek guidance rather than get drawn into a content fight or anything that might look like POV-pushing. Sorry if this sounds a bit childish, but I genuinely don’t know how to handle the situation. I recently made a few sourced contributions, and IO removed most of them ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=1286370882&oldid=1286352827], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=1286370965&oldid=1286370882], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=1286371058&oldid=1286370965]) — no prior discussion, no attempt to improve what were, admittedly, imperfect edits. This one is funny ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war&diff=1286372649&oldid=1286337987]) — they changed the quote and replaced "First Arab–Israeli War" with "1948 palestine war". What exactly am I supposed to do here? I'd really appreciate your informed advice. BTW, You have a very tough job here — walking a fine line and avoiding a minefield Michael Boutboul (talk) 14:35, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Checked your first diff; they opened a talk page section several hours ago with an explanation. It looks like you added a gigantic section, copied over from another article, without discussion first. My advice is never make a major change of any kind, or a possibly controversial minor change, at a CTOP without opening a section on the talk page first. Only clearly noncontroversial changes should be made without discussion first at a CTOP. Yes, that means getting major or controversial changes made can take time and collaborative effort. If you want to make major changes quickly, work outside of CTOPs. If you want to make controversial changes quickly, you're in the wrong place. :D Valereee (talk) 11:34, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::@Boutboul, Re: the one you called "funny": Um, it looks like you added an unattributed partisan-sounding quote as the lead sentence of the Massacres section? And you did that yesterday, while you were at AE? I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for an explanation. Valereee (talk) 11:40, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Ian Black is not considered partisan; he was a journalist at The Guardian. The event I included is well known and documented in most books on the subject. I used quotation marks to indicate that it's a citation. Does this address your concern? Michael Boutboul (talk) 12:05, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::I'm not saying Black was partisan; in fact he was fairly well-known as not partisan. I'm saying the quote sounds partisan and was added unattributed as the section's lead sentence. So, no, that does not address any of the concerns. Valereee (talk) 12:08, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Forgot to ping @Boutboul. Valereee (talk) 12:10, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::You’ll agree that since Ian Black is not considered partisan, the text he wrote can reasonably be viewed as neutral by default, no? I placed it at the beginning of the section because it makes chronological sense — doesn’t that seem logical?

:::::In addtion, this event is also described in similar terms by other authors. For instance:

At 8:30 am on 30 November 1947, an eight-man Jaffa-based armed band, led by Seif al-Din Abu Kishk, ambushed a Jewish bus in the Coastal Plain near Kfar Syrkin, killing five and wounding others. Half an hour later the gunmen let loose at a second bus, southbound from Hadera, killing two more. Later that morning, Arab snipers began to fire from Jaffa's Manshiya neighborhood into southern Tel Aviv, killing at least one person. These were the first dead of the 1948 War. Shots were also fired at Jewish buses in Jerusalem and Haifa. Benny Morris, 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War

:::::So in what way is this addition controversial? In fact, what bothered IO was not the information itself, but the use of the term 'Arab-Israeli War' instead of 'Palestine war' — which isn’t controversial either. Does it better address your concern? Michael Boutboul (talk) 12:46, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::No, it doesn't, and you're digging the hole deeper here.

::::::# The fact you're arguing because it's a quote from a journalist respected as taking a nonpartisan approach somehow makes any use in any context of any sentence he wrote somehow a "neutral" addition by default is extremely concerning.

::::::# Anything someone else might reasonably object to is by definition a possibly contentious edit. The fact you aren't seeing that is also extremely concerning.

::::::Valereee (talk) 12:56, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Yes, you're absolutely right — I didn’t realize that this simple event, acknowledged even by one of the most outspoken critics of Zionism, Ilan Pappé, could be considered controversial:

:::::::The morning after the UN General Assembly ratified the partition resolution, Palestine was swept by an outbreak of violence which signalled the beginning of a civil war that was to last until 15 May 1948. The first attacks were perpetrated by Palestinians against Jews. Two Jewish buses were attacked near Lydda airport and in Jerusalem Arab youths on 2 December ransacked the city’s Jewish market and shopping centre.

::::::: — Ilan Pappé, The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1947–1951, p. 114

:::::::I honestly didn’t expect it to be an issue. Next time, I’ll make sure to attribute the text more clearly. Thank you for this new warning I clearly have to be more careful. Michael Boutboul (talk) 13:39, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Still digging. Valereee (talk) 13:40, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::So please help me to improve, what should I've done in this case? Michael Boutboul (talk) 13:53, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Open a section on the talk page headed something like 'Missing info' and say, "I feel like the massacre section is missing a crucial piece of information about the start of the war. Here's what Black and Pappe have to say: [quotes]. I'm thinking we could add something like this as the lead sentence in that section:

::::::::::"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua."

::::::::::Valereee (talk) 13:58, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::I accept the ban, even if I feel that an indefinite one is a bit harsh. Thank you for your patience with me and the difficult work you do. :-) Michael Boutboul (talk) 14:11, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::Indefinite doesn't mean infinite. It means until you have a successful appeal at AE, AN, or ARCA, or until you convince another admin to lift it, which they'd have to get my agreement for. It feels a little weird to be saying "you're welcome", but you're very welcome for any productive help I've given, of course. Valereee (talk) 14:27, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::It is a good idea for the latin sentence, but I can't anymore ;-) Michael Boutboul (talk) 14:25, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::You mean you can't because of the p-block? Yes, you can still edit the talk page. Valereee (talk) 14:28, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::OK, I thought it was like the ECN rule 'broadly construed'. In that case, I'll do it. Michael Boutboul (talk) 15:02, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Nope, this isn't a topic ban, it's a simple partial block from a single article, and doesn't extend anywhere else. I chose this because it's a sanction that's impossible to accidentally violate and is the least restrictive I could come up with. Valereee (talk) 15:31, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::@Valereee, Talk:Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war#Original Lorem ipsum as the lead sentence of massacre section. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:57, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::JFC. Valereee (talk) 22:02, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Tournament of Champions (TV series), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Eater.

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Contacting you as a "recently active admin". The user page linked above may require administrative action. They have already been advised about WP:NOTRESUME. Many thanks! Patrick (talk) 20:29, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I noticed that Tamzin said this was my third time getting in trouble and that justifies a tban. Is this the third time? Mikewem (talk) 14:25, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:I see a previous block in the CTOP, not sure what the other would be, but they say it's #3, my default is that they're probably correct. Valereee (talk) 11:22, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

::Both previous blocks related to edit requests. {{slink|User_talk:Mikewem#October_2024_2}} and {{slink|User_talk:Mikewem#October_2024_3}}. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 22:52, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Those are both due to the same incident (one instance of trouble by my count). I made an edit request, it was deleted outright by a senior editor, our edit-warring over the single incident led to these 2 related blocks for me. The senior editor who edit-warred over my edit request ended up instituting the content from it into the article anyway. My language is actually still live in the lead to this day. I’m happy I got to contribute to making a better, more stable, more accurate article, but I regret the way it happened and I’ve learned from it.

:::As far as the recent thing, I sincerely thought I was doing the right thing and the best thing for Wikipedia. I don’t have much to say about it, but I will not make any more edit requests. Thanks for both of your work keeping this thing going. Mikewem (talk) 21:57, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

::Regardless of the details, the way I read this ban is that its limit is self-executing. When I hit 500 edits this ban automatically goes away without me having to do anything. Do I have that right? Mikewem (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Is this a 1RR violation? It didn't occur to me at the time but it does appear to have been.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=prev&oldid=1286370882], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=next&oldid=1286370882], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestine_war&diff=next&oldid=1286370965]

I don't really understand this rule. If a user makes four bad edits for example would it really require four separate users to revert them?

Thank you, IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:49, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Valeree and {{yo|Yamla}}, I wanted to give you two, who have attended to related matters recently, a heads up about my indef blocke of {{noping|Dympies}} following this SPI report. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ASockpuppet_investigations%2FYoonadue&diff=1286746380&oldid=1286745635 my comment] for details, including a observation/rant in the last para.:) I would have appended a note about this action at the recent AE complaint but didn't want to edit an archived report. Let me know if you have any comments or questions. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:Oh, that's disappointing. Thanks, Abecedare, and for the link to your final comments. I am, unfortunately, not expert with caste issues, which we seem to be having a spate of at AE, including about Shivaji, and the more I try to figure it out the more bewildering I find it. I'm wondering if it might be helpful to have in the AE rolodex a few not-regulars-at-AE admins who are familiar with caste issues who would be willing to be pinged when we seem to be getting into those issues. Valereee (talk) 19:28, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

::Valeree, the admins that I recall who often deal with ARBIPA issues, including caste and history, are {{mention|Bishonen|Doug Weller|Vanamonde93|RegentsPark|Rosguill|Asilvering|Daniel Case|Utcursch}}; {{noping|El C}} and {{noping|SpacemanSpiff}} were also active in this area but are less active on wikiedpia at the moment. And I guess almost all CUs by now will be familiar with some of the highly prolific sock masters in this area. Looking up WP:GS/CASTE and WP:AELOG should bring up some more names that I am sure I am forgetting.

:: Not that any of us are "experts" on the subject of caste but have, perforce, gained some familiarity with the (often teams of) editors involved and particular perennial issues, eg, related to WP:RAJ; WP:CASTEID; and Varna. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 20:52, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:::FWIW, I don't think there's any special knowledge that admins need around caste to adjudicate. It's the same as with disputes over ethnic groups: tread lightly, cleave to academic sources, expect some editors to get very emotionally wrapped up, and be prepared to google terminology if someone claims that something is a slur. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:13, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{tq|Perhaps a fresh Arb case is warranted}} oh dear. This is the third time I've heard this in the past three days. It's starting to feel inevitable. -- asilvering (talk) 22:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Valeree, just [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Yoonadue&diff=prev&oldid=1286942116 wanted] to update you that I have unblocked Dympies based on more recent SPI evidence. So you may be dealing with an AE report at some point. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 00:11, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:26, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

I have trimmed my statement as per your comment to make it below 500 words. However, I would like to request some extension. Thank you. Srijanx22 (talk) 13:09, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The second round of the 2025 WikiCup ended on 28 April at 23:59 UTC. To reiterate what we said in the previous newsletter, we are no longer disqualifying contestants based on how many points (now known as round points) they received. Instead, the contestants with the highest round-point totals now receive tournament points at the end of each round. These tournament points are carried over between rounds, and can only be earned if a competitor is among the top 16 round-point scorers at the end of each round. This table shows all competitors who have received tournament points so far. Everyone who competed in round 2 will advance to round 3 unless they have withdrawn or been banned.

Round 2 was quite competitive. Four contestants scored more than 1,000 round points, and eight scored more than 500 points (including one who has withdrawn). The following competitors scored at least 800 points:

• {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant16|BeanieFan11}} with 1,233 round points from 24 good articles, 28 Did you know articles, and one In the news nomination, mainly about athletes and politicians
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• {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant16|Gog the Mild}} with 1,085 round points from three FAs, one GA, and four DYKs on military history, as well as 18 reviews
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In addition, we would like to recognize {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant16|Generalissima}} for her efforts; she scored 801 round points but withdrew before the end of the round.

The full scores for round 2 can be seen here. During this round, contestants have claimed 13 featured articles, 20 featured lists, 4 featured-topic articles, 138 good articles, 7 good-topic articles, and more than 100 Did You Know articles. In addition, competitors have worked on 19 In the News articles, and they have conducted nearly 300 reviews.

Remember that any content promoted after 28 April but before the start of Round 3 can be claimed in Round 3. Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, feel free to review one of the nominations listed on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:03, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

--Lajmmoore (talk 09:22, 29 April 2025 (UTC) via MassMessaging

{{ygm}} Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:59, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

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My music features Bach Bach Bach today ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:18, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:Lovely, Gerda! Enjoy the Bach Bach Bach! Valereee (talk) 14:40, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

::I assume Bach Bach Bach is the sound of Animal playing his instrument. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:07, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:: I enjoyed singing BWV 6 (last year, among others), and listening to the St John (2 weeks ago) and the B minor (2 years ago), and enjoyed that the birthday child conducts (pictured) where the B minor was performed ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:::I have to admit I have no knowledge of any of this, but I sincerely appreciate people like you who do and make beautiful music for the rest of us. :) Valereee (talk) 00:14, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:How can you drink all day if you don't start in the morning? :D Valereee (talk) 15:15, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

::Never gonna drink again... Quitter! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

::Huh. Seems they censored that thread. Apparently you comments were unacceptably vile for that forum. That's pretty funny. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:15, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:::I requested they move it out of public to members. Because members can say whatever they want. :) Valereee (talk) 00:13, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Ok. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:05, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

{{You've got mail}}— EF5 ^(questions?) 12:37, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

You gave this editor a partial block for Denali on April 9 but they don't seem to have allowed that to even slow them. A few alarming edits:

• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:COVID-19_lab_leak_theory&diff=prev&oldid=1287027051] "Fauci is a fraud"
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:COVID-19_lab_leak_theory&diff=prev&oldid=1287332429] "This is why your party lost the election"
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_official_languages_by_country_and_territory&diff=prev&oldid=1287334959] Rewrites official language of the United States on the basis of a Trump executive order. Not properly cited to boot.
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deportation_of_Kilmar_Abrego_Garcia&diff=prev&oldid=1288958700] Massive BLP violation. Subsequently reverted but more action may be needed.
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico&diff=prev&oldid=1287964036] Complains about Gulf of Mexico renaming moratorium
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_official_languages_by_country_and_territory&diff=prev&oldid=1288955003] Tells another editor "you are making a big mistake" for reverting their official language edit. Random political complaints about Wikipedia being mean to Trump.

I thought it would be best to reach out to you directly rather than going to AN/I because they're an editor you've previously had administrative dealings with and, frankly, I wanted to avoid more US politics drama on EN.WP this week. However, between the BLP vio and the borderline threats, this editor should probably be dealt with in some manner. Simonm223 (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

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Pastificio Futuro, a pasta factory run by incarcerated youth, is getting a lot of attention after Pope Francis donated €200k to it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1niKXAtbWo] Might be a good project for someone. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 06:29, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

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:Hey, @KEmel49. Why did you think it was a test page? Valereee (talk) 20:27, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::@Valereee, Oh i see it was an automatic message from a template. anyway that draft made its way to mainspace. any reason to keep that draft?––kemel49^{(connect)(contri)} 03:39, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

:::It probably got left behind at some point. Hm, looks like there's a link to it from my archives, that may be why. Valereee (talk) 08:25, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Keeping redirects when moving to mainspace is the default, per WP:RDRAFT. If the mover is an admin or pagemover and is the sole editor, they can suppressredirect at their discretion (WP:CSD#G7 via WP:PMRC#9), which I do occasionally if the page was only in draftspace very briefly; but there's no harm in leaving a redirect in any case. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 08:45, 16 May 2025 (UTC)