Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014 Cavan Senior Football Championship (2nd nomination)

:{{la|2014 Cavan Senior Football Championship}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2014_Cavan_Senior_Football_Championship_(2nd_nomination) Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|2014 Cavan Senior Football Championship}})

renominating as no participants in last AfD. this article is purely a results listing for a lower level league. LibStar (talk) 01:38, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• Comment As the OP of the first nomination stated, this is very much a test balloon case. Looking at , looks like there's a lot of season-by-season articles for the Sligo, Meath and Dublin senior football championships (Sligo has more than 40), and another handful of counties which have between 1 and 3 season articles. Likewise , Cork has about 19 articles and there's a handful of other counties with a few. Therefore, this discussion here probably influences 100–150 other articles. Ideally we'd let WP:GAA set their own notability guidelines and stick to them, but looking at the project talk page it doesn't appear to be a very active project in terms of discussion. I will leave a message at their project talk page to get some GAA buy-in. Aspirex (talk) 23:43, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
• With all of that in mind, and making clear that I'm no GAA expert, I would advocate Delete for all. Club level Gaelic games as a whole is the second-tier of an amateur sport, so I put it on the same level as a suburban or country football league in Australia, for which we never write season-by-season articles. (This in-progress deletion discussion demonstrates that we're currently cleaning up some articles like that). I think an article like 2012–13_All-Ireland_Senior_Club_Football_Championship is probably the most appropriate level of detail: it contains all results from the All-Ireland round and the Provincial round, and the result of each of the 32ish county finals. Aspirex (talk) 23:43, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• Keep What Policy are you suggesting applies here ? Also it's a top level competition , saying it's a lower level competition is like saying the Premier League is a lower level league of the Champions league Gnevin (talk) 09:27, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:: this is not the top tier, even the article states it is a qualifying level , 2 levels below All-Ireland Senior Club Football Championship. LibStar (talk) 09:40, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:::It's like the Champions League and the Premiership, it's the highest in the county, by winning it you get to play in a different competition Gnevin (talk) 13:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Premier league would easily meet WP:GNG in its own right, with daily international coverage during its season. This league would not. LibStar (talk) 15:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:So now you want to delete Cavan Senior Football Championship ? Gnevin (talk) 16:12, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:: you're putting words into my mouth. WP:NSEASONS would apply here too. this is not a top professional league. LibStar (talk) 23:34, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:::The GAA is entirely amateur. So of course it's not professional. Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)#Gaelic_games doesn't say anything about GAA championships Gnevin (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

::::Comment Obviously the amateurism of the GAA makes it impossible to apply NSEASONS directly, but it's straightforward enough to determine what level of a professional code this is equivalent to. The county championships are clearly a level above the club championships in importance/coverage/crowds/etc., so the All-Ireland Club Championship season is Ireland's second-tier competition. That makes the Provincial Club Championships (of which there are four per code) the third tier, and the individual County Club Championship (of which there are up to 32 per code) the fourth tier, at best. At such a low level, individual season articles which chronicle every game played don't meet the guidelines for lasting notability – the only piece of content with lasting notability is the identity of the winning club and maybe the result of the final match, and a note at Cavan Senior Football Championship and 2012–13_All-Ireland_Senior_Club_Football_Championship is the appropriate place to put this. Aspirex (talk) 09:36, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

::::: Again this is unfair it's like saying the FA Cup is on the 5th tier after the World Cup , European Cup ,Champions league and National League . Club and County are separate. Gnevin (talk) 11:34, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. The nomination is based on the assumption that all these competitions are not notable. If this is so why are they covered comprehensively by national media (not just local newspapers)? Some examples from this month alone: [http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/douglas-hattrick-a-treat-for-rampant-castlebar-34140651.html 1] [http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/1026/737552-navan-omahonys-na-fianna/ 2] [http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/sarsfields-snatch-victory-from-athy-1.2396595 3] [http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/rampant-newcastle-west-end-23-year-title-drought-360121.html 4] [http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cawleys-haul-helps-st-marys-end-long-wait-for-glory-34140649.html 5] [http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/1025/737349-castlehaven-v-nemo-rangers/ 6] [http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/clann-na-ngael-claim-first-roscommon-sfc-title-in-19-years-1.2396522 7] Also the comparison with Australian football is misguided. In Australian football do any of those "suburban or country" football leagues feature players and management who also line out for the bigger teams? Does the Gippsland football league include the captain of the Australia international rules football team? Would the captain of the Australia international rules football team ever be faced with a dilemma because he was due to play for Gippsland on the same weekend, as happened the Irish equivalent [http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2013/1009/479259-murphy-faces-club-v-country-decision/ two years ago?] Or, when vacancies arise, do the larger teams look to the "suburban or country" football leagues to find a manager? Or do "suburban or country" managers feature in national media speculation on the same vacancies? [http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jack-oconnor-poised-for-kerry-u21-return-338269.html This example] mentions a former Dr Crokes boss (a team that participates in the Kerry Senior Football Championship) as a contender for the job of Kerry football manager (the same Kerry that has about 30,000 All-Ireland titles).

::::: most of the coverage is WP:ROUTINE of what you'd expect to be reported on sports game during season. LibStar (talk) 03:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

::As an aside, why is a football season ("2006 West Gippsland Latrobe Football League season") in one sport being used to compare with a competition ("Cavan Senior Football Championship") in another sport? A more accurate comparison might be "2006 Cavan Gaels football season" - which does not appear to exist. I cannot locate any similar articles.) --Benchwarming (talk) 01:03, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

:::You have misread the nomination. The nomination is for 2014 Cavan Senior Football Championship, which is a direct analogue for 2006 West Gippsland Latrobe Football League season. Cavan Senior Football Championship is an analogue for Gippsland Football League, and the notability of neither of those is up for question. Aspirex (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

:::: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for keeping. The Gippsland article is not a season article like this one. LibStar (talk) 06:48, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.