Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdulieh Janneh

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:{{la|1=Abdulieh Janneh}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Abdulieh Janneh}})

Does not sufficiently meet the NSPORT and GNG criteria InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Olympics. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frigyes06 (talk • contribs) 22:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
• Keep, thank you for nominating the article as it gives us a chance to improve it. Please see some new revelations at Talk:Abdulieh Janneh#This him? where we are trying to determine if Pa H. Jammeh the Olympian is the same person as Pa H. Jammeh, new solicitor general in Gambia. The approximate age would line up, and if the connection can be established there is a wealth of WP:IRS sources covering Pa H. Jammeh's contemporary career that could be used in the article. What we do know, is that the subject definitely meets WP:NATH twice over, as a two-time top-8 finisher at the Commonwealth Games. --Habst (talk) 12:21, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
• :Does NATH cover relay team members? I don't think that the Commonwealth Games qualify as the highest level of international competition since it's only confined to the former British colonies which decided to join. If either, or both, fail, NATH fails for inclusion, and I personally have some doubts about the connection. Consider maybe reaching out to his office directly. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:12, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
• ::@InvadingInvader, thank you for your questions. Yes, WP:NATH does cover relay team members for point (1) -- if they were not meant to be included, they would have been specifically excluded as in points (7) and (8) {{tq|"non-relay"}}. Because the Commonwealth Games includes Kenya, Ethiopia, and Jamaica, it is actually usually the highest-level international athletics competition outside of the World Championships/Olympics, because those three countries are usually ranked #2, #3, and #4 behind only the United States in track and field. --Habst (talk) 19:14, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::If it’s not higher than the world championships than it doesn’t meet NATH on its own. Invadinglnvader (talk) 10:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
• ::::@InvadingInvader, thank you for the challenge because it's important to understand the inclusion policies. WP:NATH actually does not cover World Championships qualifiers or Olympians at all one way or the other -- the history of this policy is complicated, but you'll notice that none of the numbered points at NATH currently make any reference to Olympians or WC athletes (reference is made to disciplines being in the Olympics/WC, but not Olympic athletes or Olympic performances/placings). So any argument about Olympians or World Championship qualifiers on the merits of their Olympic participation or status of a competition compared to WC is outside the scope of NATH entirely.
• ::::Understanding this, the subject actually does meet NATH twice over for placing in the Commonwealth finals, in fact this specific competition is mentioned in the first numbered point of NATH. Because of this, I would love to work with you to find sources and improve the article, instead of mass PROD-ing these Olympic 200m athletes and seeing that the vast majority are being kept so far in the subsequent discussions. (However, I am thankful that your proposed deletions have led to all these article improvements.) What do you think? --Habst (talk) 13:28, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::::even then NATH states that SIGCOV is likely to exist. Do you have any other SIGCOV besides databases? Invadinglnvader (talk) 14:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
• ::::::@InvadingInvader, thank you for responding. Yes, there is substantial SIGCOV of Pa H. Jammeh the solicitor general of Gambia. As mentioned above, the current challenge is to determine if he is the same person as the subject of the article, and that is why I think that the nomination should be withdrawn as keep until this question is resolved, or until a proper search of Gambian media from the 1990s can be performed. --Habst (talk) 19:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::::::Wouldn't this warrant draftifcation instead of extancy on the Wikipedia mainspace? Per WP:BLP, we {{tq|must get the article right}}. If he is still living, we can't include unconfirmed facts, and until proven by the most reliable of secondary sources, connections between the solicitor general and the figure in question are original research. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:45, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
• ::::::::@InvadingInvader, thank you for replying. There are no unconfirmed facts in the article, everything in the article is confirmed and cited by reliable sources. The association in question has always been on the talk page, not the actual article which is permitted. --Habst (talk) 21:04, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::::::::Why shouldn't we draftily the article though? Further refinement is necessary, and without this connection, the subject (based on the apparent lack of SIGCOV to justify inclusion as of writing) does not meet GNG. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 00:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: The previous relist was never transcluded to the log.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

:*Delete. We have no evidence of SIGCOV meeting GNG, which is required. I've also removed the SPS (Lulu.com book).

: JoelleJay (talk) 22:53, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

::@JoelleJay, thank you for responding and for scrutinizing the sources. I replaced the Lulu.com book with two other sources saying the same thing. What do you think about the purported association at Talk:Abdulieh Janneh#This him?? I think that in the interest of improving the article, we need to fully investigate all of these threads before a deletion decision is made. --Habst (talk) 00:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

:::That nickname pattern seems relatively common in the Gambia. I found several other Pa Harrys.[http://wow.gm/africa/gambia/article/kartong-mourns-their-priest 1][https://www.linkedin.com/in/pa-harry-njie-516240282/?originalSubdomain=gm 2] There needs to be considerably more linkage before we can reconsider this a NPOL situation, and right now the subject definitely fails GNG with the sources we have. JoelleJay (talk) 02:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

::::@JoelleJay, thank you for your research, that is very helpful. The reason why the association on the talk page is possible, is because the year of birth would line up (via stated education), and both the first and last name are matches. Yes, there are some people with the Pa Harry given name, but most of them don't have the other details aligning. I think this demonstrates that more research is needed into the subject -- knowing certain details could also exclude the connection, which would be just as helpful. --Habst (talk) 23:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. No secondary source content, not in the article, not in the limited sources. This athlete will remain listed in multiple articles, 1992 Summer Olympics, 1993 World Championships in Athletics – Men's 100 metres, etc, where his listing is a mere mention, and if more than a mere mention is possible, add more information in relation to the athlete and the event. There is nothing to support a general independent biography. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.