Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abhirup Guhathakurta

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Per source searches, this subject does not appear to meet WP:MUSICBIO or WP:BASIC. [https://www.thedailystar.net/news-detail-222135 This source] provides the equivalent of a short paragraph of information, but not finding much else. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:55, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bangladesh-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:55, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:55, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

My understanding about the page:

The topic is about Rabindra Sangeet, a very popular type of song in Bengali composed by Rabindranath Tagore, a Nobel Prize winning poet. Bengali is a language spoken by 90 million people in West Bengal (India) and 160 million (in Bangladesh). Thus, Rabindra Sangeet is a very important genre of music liked by a large number of people. I agree it has limited global appeal because of its language which is not spoken in the other parts of the world. It can be easily understood that Abhirup Guhathakurta who is the subject of the wiki page is well known among his peers. I would be able to add a few more citations or links later on. But, at this point of time, I think the page satisfies the notability requirement and can hardly be a subject for possible deletion. I believe, most of the pages of his peers (mentioned at the end of this page under “Notable singers of Rabindra Sangeet”) would then need to be reviewed for deletion. If a large number of such pages of important singers are need to be deleted, I may only say that a part of the Bengali culture in which Rabindra Sangeet stays within the hearts of many would then have to be derecognized. Seeuhere (talk) 11:44, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

: A lot of such Rabindra Shangeet singer is available in Bengali speeking diasphora. I don't understand yet, what made him notable for Encyclopedia. ferdous 14:55, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

• Delete--Per nominator.The rant about the systemic bias stuff is nonsense. As Ferdous notes, there'a whole lot of Rabindra Sangeet exponents across West Bengal and Bangladesh (innumerable might suffice well) and there's practically nothing that distinguishes the subject from them. FWIW, performing in remebrance-ceremonies of revered personalities or publishing albums (which has got to do with talent, money, contacts and luck, in equal terms, in current music-industry) do not lend a whiff of encylopedic notability.∯WBG^converse 18:55, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

• Keep: Reply after several changes been made:--

I would like to mention the following points in support of the notability of the singer:

As we may see in Ref#8 that “Indira Gandhi Cultural Centre and the High Commission of India, Dhaka organized a cultural programme featuring Rabindra Sangeet and recitation of Tagore's poems at the main auditorium of Bangladesh National Museum on February 10, [2012]. The event featured renditions of Tagore songs by Abhirup Guhathakurta and Indrani Sen and poetry recitation by Bratati Bandopadhyay of India.”

Hope, recognizability of the singer is very much visible since the choice is made by the High Commission of India at Dhaka (Bangladesh) which selected only two singers of Rabindra Sangeet in its event of which Guhathakurta was one of them. Similarly, there are playback singing by the artiste in two movies. There have been several international tours of which I would rate the one of Dhaka (2012) as a prominent one since it is a Govt. sponsored one with only two singers been chosen and Bangladesh has a rich tradition of Rabindra Sangeet. Additionally, there are many newspaper quotations that would address the issue of notability including that of Ref.# 14 (Artistes enthral with songs of Tagore: The Times of India, Feb 8, 2002). There are a few jointly published albums such as the one with a prominent singer Pramita Mullick.

I refer to the Notability Criteria for musicians and ensembles in Wiki Notability (music), in particular, its item #1, 4 and 6.

With the changes been made, I find the wiki-page under deletion discussion does not have any notability issue or deletion issue. I think I have argued in detail against the previous two comments which may not seem to be appropriate or even respectful to the singers of Rabindra Sangeet. Seeuhere (talk) 20:48, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

• {{u|Seeuhere}}, WP:SIGCOV. ∯WBG^converse 08:18, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

• Keep: After new refs been added:--

The page of the subject is added with further references. The status of the singer among other well-known singers may be seen in

i) Ref-5 (History, Nupur school ....) and

ii) Ref-6 (Bengali Association of Victoria...).

The two organizations based in London and Melbourne of Ref. 5 and 6 respectively mention only a few persons of good reputation in their invitee lists, in which Guhathakurta found his place. Most of the invites have their respective wiki pages too. These are independent sources citing the subject among reputed artistes. Refs 12("Event in the memory of Kanika Bandyopadhyay: The Telegraph, Oct 12, 2009") and Ref.15 ( "Mitali: Event in Kolkata in 2009".) are relevant too, though to a lesser extent. Ref. 24 ("Mitali: Indo-Bangladesh Rabindra Sangeet Talent.....) mentions the subject as one of the few judges in a talent search event organized by an Indo-Bangladesh cultural entity. I think being a judge distinguishes the subject from others.

I think I have shown resources that independently identify the subject's rank among a few well-known names and his placement among his peers (Ref.: template "Notable singers of Rabindra Sangeet"). I think if someone implies the existence of an innumerable number of Rabindra Sangeet singers with no way to distinguish themselves, he/she is hardly taking a rational standpoint. Independent sources mentioning a good ranking (that is what one requires to avoid any subjectivity) are readily seen now, than before, and this helps to satisfy the objectivity behind notability. This is not a place to argue whether Rabindra Sangeet as a genre or the associated singers as a group is relevant or not. Neither, there is a need to discuss whether spending money to produce albums and having contacts help one become famous. The table in his page shows a partial list of albums published over a time of almost four decades where he also sings with quite a few other well-known artistes. I like to invite a rational debate.Yes, I am aware of WP:SIGCOV.Seeuhere (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

• Delete -- not notable, cannot satisfy even one single criteria on WP:NM; authored and pushed by a single purpose user. --nafSadh ^{did say} 18:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
• Delete as per the above comment. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

• Keep: I find the citation of WP:NM completely irrelevant since there is enough material for notability for musicians. If someone from India gets an offer from Film Directors like Rituparno Ghosh and Goutam Ghosh (both are internationally acclaimed Directors) to do playback in their movies, this itself is a big recognition for any musician’s career in India. Then there are independent invitations from Govt. sponsored programmes (Indian High Commission) and clubs of repute in foreign countries, an invitation for being a judge in a bonafide music competition combining two adjacent countries (India and Bangladesh). Newspaper articles showing the subject as a prominent figure among celebrities invited in important events in Kolkata and beyond. I think the above comments for “Delete” are entirely arbitrary. Even a single person contributing to editing is good enough if the page has materials consistent with all the requirements. I requested for rational debates. Receiving biased and arbitrary opinions with no explicit argument is not something I would expect. I believe that the Wikipedia is not a personal property of anyone and one must give enough reasons to refute a claim. This should at least be the criterion irrespective of whether one is an experienced editor or author. The above "delete" arguments seem to be devoid of logic and biased.Seeuhere (talk) 03:36, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and now there are thousands of Rabindra Sangeet singers not clear how the subject is notable.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:09, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: This simply shows that the above author did not read my comments. Which reputed film director would invite a singer for playback singing in a movie unless he/she is famous? I have already given other arguments. I am not preaching for anyone (except being the author of the page), but I can hardly accept such irrational and biased opinions. If someone is not able to distinguish between the good and the bad in a given field of interest, one should rather refrain from commenting on it. Or, as an wiki editor even if one is ignorant of a given field one should at least see the coverage and the arguments already given. This is as simple as it sounds. Please justify this if you have any answer.Seeuhere (talk) 06:30, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
• Note to closer: Apart from the single SPA, no-one else supports keeping this article. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:17, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: The is a weak argument. It does not answer any one of my questions and pointing out of things. I would not call a single friend to vote for a "keep" when I know that I am not talking nonsense. It is quite unfortunate that the commenters are simply ignorant of the field, visibly biased against the given genre of music. On the other hand, they are irrational enough to answer valid questions and want to be blind against things vividly pointed out. Seeuhere (talk) 02:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.