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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrey Bryukhankov

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 07:20, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

=[[Andrey Bryukhankov]]=

:{{la|Andrey Bryukhankov}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Andrey Bryukhankov}})

A Russian triathlete. He as placed high at some competitions. (Note: between 40-60 usually are in a junior competition) He was not ranked in the [http://www.triathlon.org/files/events/rankings/rankings-u23-men.pdf U23 (junior) junior world rankings] at the end of 2010. He currently ranks 457 in the [http://www.triathlon.org/files/events/rankings/rankings-itu-points-men.pdf current 2010-2011 world] point total. Currently 227 in the [http://www.triathlon.org/files/events/rankings/rankings-ETU-ranking-men.pdf Men European cup] standings. He is NOT on the national team according to the [http://www.ftr.org.ru/eng%20nteam.htm Official page of the Russian Triathlon Federation].Bgwhite (talk) 07:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. —Bgwhite (talk) 08:01, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

There are clear criteria for the relevance of an article in WIKIPEDIA. Unfortunately, Bgwhite does not refer to any of these criteria. He (or she) thinks that Bryukhankov junior is not good enough. Well, this is an interesting opinion, isn't it, but completely irrelevant for the relevance criteria. Bryukhankov IS relevant for several reasons, according to the WIKIPEDIA criteria! He is a member of the Russian National Team, he is an elite sportsman taking part in ITU events, he is one fo the foreign guest stars in the French Club Championship Series, which is noit completely irrelevant, and he won medals at Russian elite Championships. It is true that he is young and most top positions were in the junior category, but people grow older, Bgwhite, and automatically grow into the elite category, in which Andrey Bryukhankov has good cards, as it were. The ITU U23 ranking is not the only criterion. Martinp1 (talk) 11:56, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Just two remarks concerning the ITU rankings quoted by Bgwhite. There is no such thing called "U23 (junior) junior world rankings" at all. What Bgwhite refers to is the U23 ranking, which by definition does not include juniors at all. The European Cup list is also irrelevant and misleading because many of the best triathletes of the world do not take part in the European Cup at all and do not show in this list at all, some top triathletes take part in one or two of the European Cup triathletes and have no good position in this ranking either. The female winner of the European Cup last year jokingly said, when ITU perople congratulated, that she was too bad for the World Championship Series or the World Cup. To cut a long story short: the lists Bgwhite quotes are irrelevant because for instance all Ironman triathletes would be missing in ITU lists as well, so should we delete all bioraphies of Ironman winners? Let's follow the WIKIPEDIA rules and according to them Andrey Bryukhankov definitely IS relevant. Martinp1 (talk) 12:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:*Comment He is NOT on the national team according to the [http://www.ftr.org.ru/eng%20nteam.htm Official page of the Russian Triathlon Federation]. True, the European Cup is below the World cup which is why I also gave the World cup total, of which he is ranked 457. Here is the Wikipedia criteria for a triathlete to be presumed noble. As Bryukhankov has not had a podium finish at the ITU Triathlon World Championships, not been to the Olympics, not competed in a Ironman, and not competed in a XTERRA, he is not presumed notable. Wikipedia goes by what a person has done and not the potential of doing. Bryukhankov has only three competitions at the elite level and only in the European Cup, which as you say is lower competition. Bgwhite (talk) 21:29, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep Meets notability for triathlon athletes. Perhaps more sourcing would hep the article, but it should be kept.--Aftonj1993 (talk) 21:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:*Comment Here is the notability guidelines for triathlon athletes. How do he meet notability guidelines?

::*[http://www.triathlon.org/athletes/profile/14190/andrey_brukhankov/ Here] he is on the ITU website. On the right you'll see his latest results. All of those competitions are ITU sanctioned. He placed first in Alanya last year, meeting #2 of the notability guidelines for triathlons. Also, he is listed on the Russian team on the website you linked to. A reserve is still a member of the team, and Bryukhankov shows to be an active representative of that team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aftonj1993 (talk • contribs) 22:28, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

:::* His name is not on the [http://www.ftr.org.ru/eng%20nteam.htm Official page of the Russian Triathlon Federation] page. Could you show me the page where it says he is a reserve member of the Elite team? He did not have a podium finish at a ITU World championship. Bgwhite (talk) 23:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

::::* [http://www.ftr.org.ru/sbornaya.htm This] is what I am seeing. If you scroll down you should see his name listed under Men(reserve...). I think we are on the same website, but I am unsure why we are seeing different things. As for the championship, I did make a mistake in that. I referenced a competition, not a championship, but it does not have to be a world championship. The guidelines ask for an ITU sanctioned championship, so his 2nd place in the European championships 2010 should fall under that category.--Aftonj1993 (talk) 23:54, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

  • I made a mistake and apologize: I hought the "relevance criteria" used in the German WIKIPEDIA more or less reflect the "notability criteria" of the English WIKIPEDIA, this is, however, not the case. So I have to change my argumentation slightly, but the result is the same. Andrey Bryukhankov IS definitely a member of the National team (check the Russian list, not the abridged English version!!), but as it seems, this is not a valid notability criterion. BUT: he takes part in ITU races and this seems to be a notability criterion because he also achieved podium positions. According to the "notability criteria", it does not matter that some of these ITU competitions belong to the junior category. To cut a long story short: according to the notabilkity criteria, he IS notable. Martinp1 (talk) 08:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
  • In case Bryukhankov junior had not met the specific triathlon notability criteria, in any case he would easily fulfill the (vague) general notability criteria. It is easy to find dozens of articels on him, e.g.: http://93.190.42.170/index.php?id=41761. Just type his name in Cyrillic and you will find ample news coverage. If one deleted all triathletes who have not yet won a medal at an ITU sanctioned championship (does "championship" include Continental Cup triathlons? does it consider the World Championship Series (!) as a whole or are the individual triathlons in Sydney, London, etc. enough...??!!), one should delete many articles, this would not be a great advantage, would it? Martinp1 (talk) 08:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
  • One day after deletion was requested, the viewers statisrtics rose up to 260 hits! And a Swedish version of the article appeared. Great. I think I should ask Bgwhite to insist on the deletion of all of my articles. Martinp1 (talk) 18:30, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 20:45, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Very strange, indeed. Bryukhankov formally fulfills the triathlon notability criteria (3 podiums), he definitely fulfills the general notability criteria, he is a promising young triathlete and a member of the Russian National Team and has several national and international titles. Still, the closer does not accept that the notability criterion is fulfilled. Very strange... Martinp1 (talk) 19:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It is really strange, because the Andrey Bryukhankov article is supported by the sports and games in Russia task force and by the sports and games work group.

I really wonder why BGwhite is such an important user that all the notability criteria, all the arguments etc. are considered less important than BGwhite's opinion according to which Bryukhankov is not good enough for Wikipedia. Shouldn't one apply the Wikipedia rules?Martinp1 (talk) 20:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 15:53, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep notability established and evidenced on the page as it now stands. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.