Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apopka High School (2nd nomination)

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:{{la|1=Apopka High School}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Apopka High School}})

Fails WP:GNG. Alumni do not make the school notable. The Banner talk 08:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Schools, and Florida. Shellwood (talk) 08:26, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. The school is 91 at least 121 years old. It has a current enrollment of over 3000 students. There are 20 references in the article and at least 15 notable alumni at the time of nomination. Jacona (talk) 09:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• 15 of the sources are about alumni and not about the school. Most of the given sources are databases or listings. Not independent in-depth sources. The Banner talk 10:05, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• But, User:The Banner, the given sources don't really matter to establish notability, it's whether or not the sources exist per the guideline. Do you disagree with the guideline? Is there a different policy or guideline that would show that the article should be deleted? Thanks. Jacona (talk) 14:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• No, the given sources DO matter. Most sources are about the alumni, not about the school. The article need independent in-depth sources that write about the school itself. See also WP:RS. The Banner talk 16:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. The school is apparently older than the article indicates, as I found numerous newspaper references as far back as 1906. Jacona (talk) 09:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

: 1906 graduation... [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103014744/apopka-high-school-graduation-1906/] Jacona (talk) 10:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• Delete to me the very fact that we cannot say A-when the school was founded B-why exactly that article gives a founding date after that graduation. Has the school been in operation continuously? What sources show us this? We do not have adequate sourcing to tell us this, we cannot write an adequate article, there are not reliable sources speaking about the school as a subject in a way we need to write an adequate article, we should not have this article. Some of this attempts to date its founding strikes me as original research.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• :The article shows 1938, [https://www.wesh.com/article/in-pictures-apopka-from-1890-to-2014/4330659] shows a picture from the State of Florida archives showing the original building in 1901, the original building destroyed in 1918. The school has over 3000 students today, there are thousands of sources when you click "find sources", the school is referenced in many, many, other Wikipedia pages (not that wikipedia is a RS, but because if you bother look at these articles, you will see additional sources. Jacona (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• Keep. I found a geocities source that I've listed on the article's talk page for discussion. In addition, there are articles on the integration struggles in the 1960's, contributing to GNG notability. I'll be adding those to the article, but I'd appreciate other editors' participation in the talk page discussion. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:38, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Keep A secondary school with more than 3,000 students is guaranteed to be notable. Scorpions13256 (talk) 18:28, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• Why? Does the number of students lead to independent, in-depth sources? The Banner talk 13:10, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Because common sense....It is not "guaranteed", but it's going to be true. It is also not "guaranteed" that a very old school will be WP:N. But it is incredibly likely, and so our time would better be spent discussing all the tiny private schools that have been around for a few years. Discussing large, very old schools is (IMO), a waste of time. My time would be better spent elsewhere, Scorpions13256's time would be better spent elsewhere...your time is yours, and you've decided this is worthwhile, so here we are. Jacona (talk) 14:27, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• No, we need reliable, independent, in-depth sources. Not guesswork. The Banner talk 14:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• There are dozens of RS in the article. There are hundreds on the internet. This is not guesswork, this is you don't like it. There is a book that goes into great detail about the school. There is evidence of a great many historical offline documents. Even if these sources were not currently in the article, policy clearly states at WP:NEXIST " Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article. Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility or existence of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Thus, before proposing or nominating an article for deletion, or offering an opinion based on notability in a deletion discussion, editors are strongly encouraged to attempt to find sources for the subject in question and consider the possibility that sources may still exist even if their search failed to uncover any." Are you saying your opinion overrides policy? Jacona (talk) 15:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Ah, there are the accusations. Most of the sources are database sources about the alumni, not about the school. Further you have some statistics and a source about the building (again, not the school). Sorry. The Banner talk 15:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Why do you do a mind trick and imagine that the list of alumni was split off to a separate article. What is left then? The Banner talk 15:59, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• :I'll do a proper search later. Normally, I would have come to this discussion armed with sources. However, the size of the school makes me almost 100% certain they exist. Since late 2020, I have only encountered 1 AFD of an American secondary school with more than 400 students where the article was ultimately deleted. Scorpions13256 (talk) 15:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Since the 2017 RFC, schools have to prove notability. Not that they exist. The Banner talk 11:34, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
• ::[https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103264463/apopka-high-school/ Here is one.] [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103264599/apopka-2/ Here is another.] [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103264846/apopka-high-school-3/One more time just to be safe.] I am just scratching the surface. I haven't even looked at the local sources. Scorpions13256 (talk) 15:48, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Keep, by the way, per the numerous reliable sources in the article, and the numerous others available both online and offline. The existence of notable alumni does not diminish the notability of the school, as the nomination seems to suggest. Jacona (talk) 15:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Keep. Enough sourcing available to meet WP:GNG, as with any other American secondary school. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:15, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
• some sources) Here are some sources about integration at Apopka, around 1969-1970: this one article, two parts [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103570778/],[https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103571071/]. Some more: [https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-billie-dean-obituary-20200914-7y6rvlzviba6fhpknhxcz5dpym-story.html] [https://orlandosentinel.newspapers.com/clip/59282873/orlando-sentinel-22891/] [https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2004-06-10-0406090459-story.html]. Here is another 2 page article [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103572352/apopka-high-school-boycott-part-1/], [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/103572489/apopka-high-school-boycott-part-2/]. Jacona (talk) 18:46, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.