Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armando Camacaro

:{{la|Armando Camacaro}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Armando_Camacaro Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Armando Camacaro}})

Bullpen catchers aren't inherently notable, and this one doesn't seem to have the sources to pass GNG. Wizardman 21:37, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:42, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:43, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:43, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:43, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

• Delete Bullpen catchers aren't coaches, regardless of what some others here claim. Also doesn't pass GNG. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 05:51, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
• KeepIs a coach. From MLB.com profile: "Coaching Career Begins his fifth season on the Indians coaching staff...Duties include catching starting and relief pitchers and throwing batting practice along with assisting Indians positional coaches with functions relative to their positions." [http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=cle&coachorstaffid=440924] Alex (talk) 05:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

:: Assisting coaches does not make someone a coach. It makes them a member of the support staff, as I've said multiple times in these AfDs. If a bullpen CATCHER was a COACH, he'd have "coach" in his title. This isn't hard. I'm not sure why certain people here insist on making it hard. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 20:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

• Keep. Team lists him as a coach, so he's a coach. Per Alex, "fifth season on Indians coaching staff"... No reason to intentionally create red links on all these team roster pages by deleting bullpen catchers.Spanneraol (talk)

:: Are you serious? Since when is a fear of creating "red links" a reason to keep a page that doesn't pass GNG? The clear, common-sense solution is to delete bullpen catchers from the roster pages. As I've explained a dozen times, MLB teams are only allowed seven uniformed coaches, and bullpen catchers specifically don't count as coaches. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 21:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Bbny-wiki-editor}} He was a coach as explained in [http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=cle&coachorstaffid=440924 here]. WP:BASEBALL/N states that if a coach served in MLB, which he did, then he is deemed notable. ΤheQ Editor  ^Talk? 19:37, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

• Keep WP:BASEBALL/N states that if the person ever appeared in a Major League Baseball at least once, then the player is notable.  ΤheQ Editor  ^Talk? 21:09, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:: You're making mistakes all over these AfDs. You should refrain from voting until you have a better understanding of things. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 21:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

::Note to closing editor This guy never appeared in an MLB game. The above Keep vote is based on an erroneous justification. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 21:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

:WP:BASEBALL/N states that any one that appeared in a MLB game is deemed notable. But I'm going to use WP:COMMONSENSE and pretend that the guideline states that any batter, fielder or pitcher that appeared in a MLB game is deemed notable.  ΤheQ Editor  ^Talk? 19:32, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

So we now have three people saying keep, none of which are going by any guidelines, and some of which are completely backwards in reading them. I trust the closing admin will actually look at the weight of the comments rather than numbers. Wizardman 02:19, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• Keep We decided the issue of bullpen catchers long ago. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dan_Williams for example. Kinston eagle (talk) 00:14, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

:: Note to closing admin Contrary to the above, nothing has been "decided" regarding bullpen catchers. The above AfD was a 6-4 keep! back in 2007, with multiple keep! voters using their own made-up interpretation of BASE/N. I have provided all sorts of proof that bullpen catchers aren't considered coaches by MLB, which certain people here are ignoring. If bullpen catchers were coaches, they would 1) count against MLB's seven-coach limit (which they currently do not), 2) have "coach" in their title, like EVERY OTHER COACH IN MLB, and 3) generate sufficient media citations such that BASE/N would be irrelevant, because the subjects would pass GNG. Not a single Wiki page for a current MLB pitching coach, hitting coach, bench coach, first base coach, third base coach, or bullpen coach is relying on BASE/N to justify the Wiki page's existence — every single one of them passes GNG based on media coverage. If bullpen catchers were really coaches, they, too, would generate huge amounts of media coverage, which all of these guys lack. (There are five pending AfDs for bullpen catchers, and not a one of them passes GNG based on media citations, which should tell us something about their notability.) It's time to use some common sense here. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 05:13, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

• Keep - The Indians regard him as a coach, not other staff. [http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/coaches.jsp?c_id=cle] Ironically they have a "psychology coach" listed with other staff and I don't think anyone will argue that this title means that he is a member of the coaching staff. So I would go with the team's own classification. Rlendog (talk) 01:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.