Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ass of bishop

:{{la|Ass of bishop}} ([{{fullurl:Ass of bishop|wpReason={{urlencode: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ass of bishop}}&action=delete}} delete]) – (View AfD)(View log)

No indication at all of notability. The only references given are to 2 web sites which gives a list of games with a little general information about each, in one case a few sentences and in the other a couple or so paragraphs. By no stretch of teh imagination can this be regarded as "significant coverage".

I have also done a Google search for "Dupa biskupa". There were many hits, and I looked at the first forty of them. Of these forty only one had any connection with a card game (apart from the English Wikipedia article which is the subject of this AfD discussion). That one was a Youtube video of people playing cards. The others were varied: several were blogs, forums etc giving childish "humour", such as this one[http://zxdemo.org/item.php?id=2515]; a couple showed rock climbing: I guess "Dupa biskupa" is the name of a rock; one was a page on Polish "Nonsensopedia" which, translated into English, said "You have been banned forever for the vulgar nickname. However, you can set up another account with the correct name and edit Nonsensopedię normally"; and so it goes on.

It is clear that Dupa biskupa (bishop's ass) is a common mildly vulgar expression in Polish which is used widely when one wants to be a bit cheeky and silly. Using it as the name of a card card game is just one example of this. There is absolutely no way at all that I can describe either the sources cited in the article or what I found as "significant coverage" of anything, least of all of the card game. There is in fact so little coverage of the game that it is unclear whether it is a popular and widespread or not. However, it really doesn't matter, as either way there is no way that the coverage (both in the citations and in what I have found) can be regarded as "significant".

• Move to Dupa Biskupa. Although I don't know Polish and there aren't many references for this game in English, the activity on the article on Polish Wikipedia seems to establish notability. However anyone who's familiar with this game would not by the Polish name and not by "ass of bishop." Just as Shogi isn't titled by the literal translation from Japanese, "general's chess," it's very obvious that "ass of bishop" is a very poor choice of title. Piddle (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
• Move per Piddle. As tempting as keeping that name would be (it would be a real hit with the kids, I think), I suspect it should be considered a proper name and thus not translated. --TeaDrinker (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

:*Comment Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and the article on Polish Wikipedia cannot establish notability. If it is kept ( and I think it shouldn't be) then I agree that the title should be "Dupa Biskupa": I doubt that anyone calls it "ass of bishop". JamesBWatson (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm from Poland, can i say something? Dupa biskupa doesnt mean anything in Poland other than card game. Really. Its just a game. Nothing more. No rocks as u said or sillly and cheeky something. We dont use it in language in any other way that describe CARD GAME. Thats all. NOTHING ELSE :P Dupa biksupa = Ass of bishop in reference to Card Game :P Thank you. Polish man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.115.121.120 (talk) 21:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and this game is known in Poland for yeeeeeeeaaaaarssss! Its not new, Its ooooold and well-known, i think even pre-IIwar but for SURE it was known during communism times (as my grandpa said he remember that playing with my father and aunts :P).

77.115.121.120 (talk) 22:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I also looked in google for it... Well. in blogs etc, seems that people use nick "dupa biskupa" :P Other interesting thing I found named after this (that prolly confuse) is photography contest named that (joke photo contest for funny photo) and http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6499 u have english translation of name (so its right :P). Well. Game exists for sure, ;) 77.115.121.120 (talk) 22:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC) (and no name translation... well.. we are changing english names of card games to polish so... polish into english also i think? :P)

:*Comment Whether or not "Dupa biskupa doesnt mean anything in Poland other than card game", almost none of the uses found on Google have anything to do with cards. However, that is really a side issue: whether or not the word has other meanings, the onus is on those wanting to keep the article to show that there is substantial coverage, which so far has not been done. My only reason for mentioning the web pages which are not about the game is to anticipate what frequently happens in AfD discussions: someone saying "Keep, because I got a lot of Google hits". I wanted to indicate that most such hits are irrelevant. (As well, of course, as number of Google hits not esatblishing notability anyway.) JamesBWatson (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

: You say "almost none"? lfmao... I think you cant speak polish right? :P Well, i personally found several pages in google describing this game, including those two references in article... :P 77.113.123.33 (talk) 11:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

• Section it into an article on types of card games, perhaps. Can't really see WP:N. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 01:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. Incoherent. 2005 (talk) 07:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

:*Yes, it is very incohereent, and if kept will need a thorough rewrite. JamesBWatson (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

• Move to Dupa Biskupa. This is just a card game. The rules are simple: the objective is to get rid of your cards. Before starting, each card is assigned a function, such as making a gesture or yelling out a word. The only "rule" or common element of each game is that one card is named "dupa biskupa" (the bishop's stooge, puppet, or other wise a king that is not quite bright), the king of spades. Cards are kept face down and in turn, each player throws one on the table. The player, who responds slowest to the last card thrown on the table, takes it. It is played until someone is left with no card, or when the players get confused what the cards mean, thus leading to chaos and fun! There are at least three Youtube clips showing people playing the game with different assignments to the cards. Furthermore, it is described in English here: [http://www.pagat.com/national/poland.html a card games web site] that lists "rules and information about card and tile games from all parts of the world". I think the the title should not be translated. Keeping it in Polish will discourage vandalism and removal. The current text also needs to be edited.— CZmarlin (talk) 13:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. -- TexasAndroid (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
• I have nominated this for Polish Wikipedia AfD (:pl:Wikipedia:Poczekalnia#Dupa_biskupa). I'd suggest waiting to see how the discussion develops there. The game exists, but is it notable? That I am unsure of. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
• Update: pl wiki AfD ended in keep; the consensus is that it may not be a well documented in reliable sources, but it exists and is "known". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:25, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
• Whatever the decision on Polish WP, our policy is that only subjects which are documented in reliable sources warrant an article. Whether Polish WP has a different policy or whether this decision was against policy I neither know nor care: English Wikipedia is independent of Polish Wikipedia. More useful though is the fact that the Polish discussion decided that "it may not be a well documented in reliable sources". Since they are no doubt much better able to assess Polish documentation than most English Wikipedia editors, if that was their conclusion then I seems a fair bet that the game is not well documented in reliable sources. "No indication at all of notability" were the opening words of this discussion, and, seven days later, no evidence of notability has been produced by those wishing to keep the article.

Move I created this article and tbh i agree with what you stated before. Though it will sound weird in Polish title in English wikipedia but, real meaning of game can be just mentioned in article. Ptok Bentoniczny (talk) 21:29, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.