Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Austin Madaisky

:{{la|Austin Madaisky}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Austin_Madaisky Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Austin Madaisky}})

Falls short of the requirements of WP:GNG, having never played in a top league and having too few games in a top-level minor league. T.C.Haliburton^{talk nerdy to me} 05:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Tchaliburton. This does not fit the guidelines for notoriety. Redflorist (talk) 03:44, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

• Delete Doesn't meet the notability criteria for hockey players.Jakejr (talk) 03:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

[http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/1454596B2AA87C88/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 here]^{[http://www.webcitation.org/6VK6MJp1G WebCite]}, [http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/130B4100FAE174B0/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 here]^{[http://www.webcitation.org/6VK6NPD4x WebCite]}, and [http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/141559C32F2853A0/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 here]^{[http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/141559C32F2853A0/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 WebCite]}. Cunard (talk) 06:23, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

• Delete Non-notable ice hockey player. All links provided are just routine sports coverage and fall under WP:NOTNEWS. Deadman137 (talk) 07:16, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

  1. {{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2011-07-01 |title=Madaisky closer to returning from neck injury |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/madaisky-closer-to-returning-from-neck-injury-1.1248404 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLX97OzB |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

     The article notes:

     Austin Madaisky learned how to use a meat thermometer last week.

     The Kamloops Blazers defenceman also found out that he has made awfully good progress from the broken neck that ended his 2010-11 WHL season.

     Madaisky, a 19-year-old from Surrey, spent the week at the Columbus Blue Jackets' development camp. He was a fifth-round selection, 124th overall, in the NHL's 2010 draft.

  2. {{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2012-10-25 |title=Madaisky anxious to play |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/madaisky-anxious-to-play-1.1246623 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLXHjtSo |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

     The article notes:

     Madaisky, 20, is eligible to return to the Blazers, but is under contract with the Columbus Blue Jackets, the Falcons' NHL parent. He is one of 10 defencemen on the Falcons' roster, and has been a healthy scratch for the regular season's first four games.

     ...

     A fifth-round selection by Columbus in the NHL's 2010 draft, Madaisky said that, other than not playing, he has enjoyed his first extended professional experience.

     "It's been good," he said. "We've been doing a lot. I'm usually in the gym and skating every day. I've been doing a lot of extra skating because I haven't been playing. Overall, that's been good so far."

     Before leaving for Springfield, Madaisky was in camp with the Blazers, who acquired him from the Calgary Hitmen during the 2009-10 season. So he has more than a passing interest in the run the Blazers have put together.

  3. {{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2012-03-27 |title=Blazers' Madaisky suspended for two games |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/blazers-madaisky-suspended-for-two-games-1.1232977 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLXPWGEa |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

     The article notes:

     Madaisky, 6-foot-3 and 200 pounds, added that he "was definitely surprised to get two games." But he had been forewarned by head coach Guy Charron and associate coach Dave Hunchak.

     "I was told to expect something," Madaisky said. "I was told to expect one, maybe two, and it happened to be two."

     Madaisky, who turned 20 on Jan. 30, said he was disappointed with the league's decision.

     "Especially at this time of year," he said. "It's never fun sitting out. You kind of feel like you're letting the team down by not being in the lineup. Hopefully, we're a deep enough squad that we have guys who are able to come into the lineup and do a good job."

     Madaisky played quite well in the first two games, picking up three assists and going plus-4. He and Tyler Hansen have been used in a shutdown role for much of the season, playing against the opposition's best offensive line. Madaisky also plays a point on the first power-play unit and kills penalties.

  4. {{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2011-09-22 |title=Game to remember for Madaisky |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/game-to-remember-for-madaisky-1.1220806 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLXWf28t |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

     The article notes:

     Austin Madaisky won't ever forget Tuesday night in Winnipeg.

     Madaisky, a 19-year-old defenceman, was in the Columbus Blue Jackets' lineup for the return of the Jets to Winnipeg.

     ...

     This also was Madaisky's NHL debut and, he said, it was something he never will forget.

     "Even just flying out there in the team plane and things like that . . . it was just a hell of an experience," he said.

     Madaisky, who watched the Blue Jackets beat the visiting Washington Capitals 4-3 in overtime on Wednesday night, was a fifth-round pick by Columbus in the NHL's 2010 draft. This was his second NHL training camp, although he has yet to sign an NHL contract. Still, he doesn't feel that he did anything to hurt his chances.

  6. {{cite news |last=Petruk |first=Tim |date=2010-06-29 |title=Two Blazers selected in NHL draft |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/130B4100FAE174B0/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=Kamloops This Week |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VK6NPD4x |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

     The article notes:

     Austin Madaisky was in another world when he heard he’d been selected in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.

     Seriously.

     The 18-year-old Kamloops Blazers’ defenceman was on a family vacation on Mexico’s Mayan Riviera last week.

     ...

     “I was following the draft on the computer,” he said.

     “The names came up on a little ticker on the screen.

     “And, actually, my computer crashed in about the fourth round, so I didn’t even know until everybody started texting me.”

     What Madaisky missed was his own name ticking across the monitor, announcing that he’d been selected in the fifth round, 124th overall, by the Columbus Blue Jackets.

  7. {{cite news |last=Remillard |first=Jason |date=2013-03-15 |title=Defenseman Austin Madaisky assigned to Springfield Falcons from ECHL's Evansville IceMen |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/1454596B2AA87C88/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=The Republican |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VK6MJp1G |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}
  8. {{cite news |date=2012-09-14 |title=Madaisky off to the American Hockey League |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/141559C32F2853A0/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VK6R6pZ3 |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Austin Madaisky to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 05:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

:*Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Applicable policies and guidelines says:

Subjects that do not meet the sport-specific criteria outlined in this guideline may still be notable if they meet the General Notability Guideline or another subject specific notability guideline.

Cunard (talk) 00:41, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: WP:NHOCKEY says:

  Ice hockey players are presumed notable if they

  1. Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league;

  ...

  {{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2012-09-11 |title=Really, Madaisky doesn't know |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/really-madaisky-doesn-t-know-1.1224495 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLXmE2Hg |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

  The source says:

  Madaisky has signed a three-year contract with the Blue Jackets, who selected him in the fifth round of the 2010 NHL draft. So it is the Blue Jackets who, to a large extent, are calling the shots.

  That's why he has played in just one of the Blazers' four exhibition games to this point, and why he isn't likely to play Friday when Kamloops (4-0) closes out its preseason against the Prince George Cougars (3-1) at Interior Savings Centre.

  Because the subject played an exhibition game for the NHL team Columbus Blue Jackets, he passes WP:NHOCKEY.

  Cunard (talk) 05:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• Delete - Seems like it might be WP:Too soon for this article. WP:NHOCKEY seems pretty clear, but the Blazers aren't a "top professional league". NickCT (talk) 11:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

:*My apologies for the error. I used the wrong source above.

{{cite news |last=Drinnan |first=Gregg |date=2011-09-22 |title=Game to remember for Madaisky |url=http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/game-to-remember-for-madaisky-1.1220806 |newspaper=The Kamloops Daily News |accessdate=2015-01-05 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VLXWf28t |archivedate=2015-01-05 }}

The article notes:

Austin Madaisky won't ever forget Tuesday night in Winnipeg.

Madaisky, a 19-year-old defenceman, was in the Columbus Blue Jackets' lineup for the return of the Jets to Winnipeg.

...

This was the Jets' first NHL appearance in Winnipeg since a playoff game on April 28, 1996, after which the franchise moved to Phoenix.

Madaisky said the Jets, who won 6-1, were kind of pumped for this one.

...

This also was Madaisky's NHL debut and, he said, it was something he never will forget.

"Even just flying out there in the team plane and things like that . . . it was just a hell of an experience," he said.

Madaisky, who watched the Blue Jackets beat the visiting Washington Capitals 4-3 in overtime on Wednesday night, was a fifth-round pick by Columbus in the NHL's 2010 draft. This was his second NHL training camp, although he has yet to sign an NHL contract. Still, he doesn't feel that he did anything to hurt his chances.

"I thought I held my own," he said of the game, in which he played 11 minutes 16 seconds and finished minus-1. "It's probably the fastest hockey I've ever played. Everything happens a lot quicker out there.

Like most junior players who get to play in the NHL, Madaisky quickly learned that play is far more structured there than in the WHL.

The caption of the photo in the article is:

Columbus defenceman Austin Madaisky (54) watches as Jets forward Mark Scheifele (45) scores on Blue Jackets goaltender Curtis Sanford during the first period of an NHL exhibition game in Winnipeg on Tuesday. Madaisky, from the Kamloops Blazers, was playing in his first NHL game. Photograph By The Canadian Press

The subject passes WP:NHOCKEY because he has played in an NHL exhibition game.

Cunard (talk) 00:41, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

::*I can't imagine that preseason games count toward WP:NHOCKEY given that teams routinely use prospects and farm team members. Sometimes they even play split-squad games. Is there any precedence for this? T.C.Haliburton^{talk nerdy to me} 01:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

:::*WP:NHOCKEY says "Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league". It does not distinguish among preseason, during season, or postseason games.

Subject specific notability guidelines are meant to identify what articles will likely meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. The subject passes WP:NHOCKEY, and the sources I've provided here support his passing both WP:NHOCKEY and WP:GNG. Cunard (talk) 01:28, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

::::*Yes, I know, but I don't think those guidelines intended for preseason games to be included. WP:COMMONSENSE would say they should not unless there is precedence. T.C.Haliburton^{talk nerdy to me} 04:19, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

:::::*Q1–Q3 of Wikipedia:Notability (sports)/FAQ are instructive in noting that the WP:COMMONSENSE path is to look at the sources. And the sources confirm that the subject passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, so he is notable. Cunard (talk) 04:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

:::::::* Let me ask again (maybe someone else knows), is there any precedence for a preseason exhibition game conferring notability? T.C.Haliburton^{talk nerdy to me} 04:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::::*None that I have ever seen, there is no league that even tracks player stats from preseason games, look no further than this player's own profile on hockeydb. They are just an Exhibition game which by definition mean nothing. Also all of the additional links provided are still no more than routine sports coverage. Deadman137 (talk) 20:15, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::*"Routine sports coverage" like reports about sports scores do not provide significant biographical information about the subject. The sources I've linked above do provide significant biographical information so establish notability per Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. Cunard (talk) 04:35, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::*You should read a little lower in the Wikipedia article that you keep citing which clearly states:

:::::::::::"Publication in a reliable source is not always good evidence of notability:

:::::::::::Wikipedia is not a promotional medium. Self-promotion, paid material, autobiography, and product placement are not valid routes to an encyclopedia article. The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the topic itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, author, inventor, or vendor) have actually considered the topic notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works of their own that focus upon it—without incentive, promotion, or other influence by people connected to the topic matter."

:::::::::::Every single article that you have presented fails the criteria outlined in the last sentence, meaning the subject fails WP:GNG. Deadman137 (talk) 23:32, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::*It's unclear how the sources I've presented here are from "people connected to the topic matter". Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: Wikipedia:Notability (sports)/FAQ says:

  Q6: What constitutes "non-routine" secondary coverage for sports?

  A6: Routine news coverage of sporting events, such as descriptions of what occurred, is not considered to be sufficient basis for an article, following Wikipedia's policy of not being a place for routine news coverage. There should be significant coverage directly related to the subject. In addition to Wikipedia's guidance on reliable sources, also see Wikipedia's guidance on biographies of living persons for more information.

  Whether there is "significant coverage directly related to the subject" determines whether the coverage is "routine" or not. Not other criteria. In this case, it is clear from my above quotes that the sources directly discuss the subject.

  Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails NHOCKEY and GNG. Can be re-created when/if he ever does. Patken4 (talk) 14:17, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

:*Per WP:VAGUEWAVE, please clarify why you believe the subject fails GNG. Cunard (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.