Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beant Singh (assassin)

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:{{la|Beant Singh (assassin)}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Beant_Singh_(assassin) Stats])

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This individual is notable only for his role in the Assassination of Indira Gandhi. Aside from being one of the assassins of Indira Gandhi, he has no notability whatsoever. Per WP:CRIME, {{tq|A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person.}} Therefore, this article should be deleted and redirected to Assassination of Indira Gandhi. Please see related AfD at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Satwant_Singh May His Shadow Fall Upon You ^Talk 22:15, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

• Keep as a highly notable subject. This was not some random crime but Assassination of the then :Prime Minister of India. The Guideline that nominator is quoting above states "..should not normally be..". Well the murder of the sitting PM is not a normal crime. The assassins of Kennedy, Lincoln etc are similar cases who have their own article. In such high profile cases the subject gets intense national and international coverage which makes the subject pass all criteria of WP:GNG. As expected Beant Singh's act made him popular and multiple notable events such as, election victory of his widow and father, in Lok Sabha, honour by Akal Takht, annual felicitation etc were caused as a result of this act. All of these cannot simply be merged to the assassination page. There are enough sources in the article, hence I dont feel the need to post here.--DBigXrayᗙ 09:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep - one of the few assassins who actually changed history. There's plenty of good evidence that his legacy continues to this day. Bearian (talk) 14:12, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

::{{reply to|Bearian}} - He is definitely notable, but he's notable for this crime alone. Given that there's only perhaps a few sentences in this article that's not in the assassination article, per WP:CRIME he should not have an independent article. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ^Talk 14:27, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

:::{{reply to|May His Shadow Fall Upon You}} - Assassins are often kept as as exception to WP:CRIME. I don't see how consensus has changed on this. Deleting this would create a terrible precedent, or worse, devalue the life of a women leader of color if we kept Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, John Wilkes Booth, and Lee Harvey Oswald. We even have articles about those who kill the assassins (Boston Corbett and Jack Ruby). We should keep all of these articles. Bearian (talk) 14:36, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

::::{{reply to|Bearian}} - None of those other articles are up for AfD, nor should they really interfere with the AfD on the basis that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The undeniable fact is that the article for the Singh assassins contain almost no information over and above what's in the assassination article. I count only perhaps three or four sentences that could easily be ported over. Assassins are not mentioned at WP:OUTCOMES so I'm not sure why you linked that. This seems like a clear-cut WP:CRIME situation. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ^Talk 14:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

::::#IMHO the article passes our notability criteria due to being the perpetrator of a major crime with international ramifications. Hence deserves a standalone article.

::::#There are other notable events that has occurred to the subject and his family as a result of assassination, some of them are already in the article some more should be added, since our article is incomplete IMHO. This is exactly the reason why the subject merits another article.

::::#There are more than a few sentences here, and a notable stub is a reason to expand, not to delete and merge. We wont have stubs if we go down that road.--DBigXrayᗙ 16:41, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

::::::It's true that the subject of the article passes notability criteria, but the community consensus established in WP:CRIME is that a perpetrator who is known only for his crime (and the repercussions of that crime) should not have a standalone article but rather be included in the article about the event. 100% of the notability for this subject stems from his role in the assassination of Indira Gandhi. Therefore, as per community consensus, this should not be a standalone article - unless you have some reason to think that this individual is notable for a reason that has nothing to do with the assassination. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ^Talk 13:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

:::::::User:May His Shadow Fall Upon You, you are taking an extreme inference of WP:CRIME (which By the way, is a guideline and not a policy) and using it as a fit all thumb-rule. WP:CRIME further states, {{gi| the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies :: For perpetrators :: The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities}} . I am sure you would agree that Indian PM is a renowned international figure. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:46, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

::::::::{{reply to|DBigXray}} - While I agree that the Indian PM is a renowned international figure, please read the text that precedes your quote: {{tq|Where there are no appropriate existing articles, the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies... The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities}}. In this case, there is an appropriate existing article: Assassination of Indira Gandhi. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ^Talk 17:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::User:May His Shadow Fall Upon You thank you for pointing this, I seem to have missed it. Nevertheless, I will stick with my stand above due to reasons stated in the first two comments I made to this thread. And lets agree to disagree. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 17:58, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per nom clear WP:BLP1E and redirect to Assassination of Indira Gandhi.182.65.50.9 (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep highly notable and celebrated as martyrs by Sihks, e.g. [http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091101/punjab.htm#4]. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:32, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep. Of course assassins of high-profile politicians are notable. "This individual is notable only for his role in the Assassination of Indira Gandhi. Aside from being one of the assassins of Indira Gandhi, he has no notability whatsoever." So, like Lee Harvey Oswald then! Someone else who is notable only for assassinating someone famous. Yes, more is written about Oswald, but the stated reason for deletion just does not hold water. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:37, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
• keep mostly per the keep votes above. Also, wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, we have to use our logic at times. Also, WP:CRIME is guideline, not a policy. The subject has plenty of coverage. Not as much as Oswald, but it is enough. John Wilkes Booth was not notable as an actor, without the assassination; he wouldnt have an article either. —usernamekiran(talk) 02:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep Per User:DBigXray. -- Harshil ^{want to talk?} 03:34, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
• Keep - I'm in agreement on the guideline/policy issue Mujinga (talk) 19:31, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

::Speedy Keep as per nom this article must stay Jhummu ^Shiv-o-Hum! 09:13, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

• Keep: Notability has been established and it appears we now have consensus. - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:45, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

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: The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.