Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bronwyn Wilson

:{{la|Bronwyn Wilson}} – (View AfDView log{{•}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Bronwyn_Wilson Stats])

:({{Find sources|Bronwyn Wilson}})

The subject fails WP:ATHLETE. That threshold is met by persons who have "participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics" ... Tae Kwon Do was a demonstration sport, so this does not present any sort of competition. The subject also fails at higher standards of WP:GNG (coverage substantially about the subject by multiple independent reliable sources), and WP:ANYBIO (awards, etc.). JFHJr (㊟) 02:09, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: I've searched through previous AfDs and not found one that turned upon whether athletes in olympic demonstration sports were notable, so it looks like this might not have been discussed before. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
• Keep WP:NOLYMPICS says "Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the Summer or Winter Olympic games or [...]" and demonstration sports are clearly "at" the games, even if they could be argued to be not "in" the games or to be not "competitions." I'll admit that this is a borderline case, though. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:*So individual members of a team at the games but whose entire sport is not in them are, in your view, inherently notable? Is that the spirit of WP:NOLYMPICS as you read it? JFHJr (㊟) 04:46, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

::* I really don't know, I came here from Wikipedia:WikiProject_New_Zealand, rescuing an article which had very ugly BLP issues (see the article talk page). I just cast around for a resolution to the BLP stuff and the references in use at the moment seemed like the way to rescue the article. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:*And do demonstration sports participants truly compete? Just another question I suppose my assumptions in nominating beg. JFHJr (㊟) 04:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

::* My understanding from demonstration sport and various results sites is that the competitors don't recieve olympic medals, but the events are selected for and run as olympic sports. The NZOC doesn't consider this athlete to be an olympic athlete, but yet she fought others in the ring at the olympics. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:::*I'd be inclined to call the NZOC persuasive but not outright dispositive. I think it's the competition as a national representative and the prospect of winning an event (i.e., a medal) that makes notability inherent among competitors of existing Olympic sports. JFHJr (㊟) 05:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Redirect to Taekwondo_at_the_1988_Summer_Olympics#Middleweight_.2865.E2.80.9370_kg.29 since the only thing we can say about her is that she competed. There are also potential BLP issues and so the redirect should be locked. -- The Red Pen of Doom 10:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:*Comment — I think this is an acceptable alternative to deletion. JFHJr (㊟) 05:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Comment This probably needs a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) as to whether competing only in a demonstration sport at the Olympics is sufficient for notability. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(User talk:DerbyCountyinNZ)} 21:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:*Link. Stuart opened a discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_%28sports%29 here].--Bbb23 (talk) 23:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• Delete In the technical sense, I do not believe people in demonstration sports "competed" as much as they "performed an exhibition" in these sense of the term used at WP:ATHLETE. In a more holistic sense, I do not think that demonstration sports receive the type of media coverage that would make their competitors most likely notable as their non-demonstration sports counterparts. With not meeting WP:ATHLETE and no other WP:GNG established, I would say delete. RonSigPi (talk) 22:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

::I think your first sentence makes more sense as In the technical sense, I do not believe people in demonstration sports "competed" in these sense of the term used at WP:ATHLETE as much as they "performed an exhibition". As "performed an exhibition" does not appear in Wikipedia:ATHLETE. Is that your meaning? Stuartyeates (talk) 23:47, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: The Olympics are heavily documented in many, many books. There are several books specifically dedicated to New Zealand at the Olympics. These are likely to mention Wilson. --LauraHale (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

:*Comment — I'll go along with "surely someone somewhere wrote it down." But would mentions support the notion that participants in TKD as a demonstration sport were Olympic athletes in a way that fits WP:ATHLETE/WP:NOLYMPICS ("participated in a major international amateur or professional competition"/"participated in games or have won a medal")? If the unnamed sources in question exist but give only short shrift in a separate section, it would be hard to justify putting demonstration sport participants on par with competitors in Olympic sports who stand win a medal for their country. Also, unless these mentions approach substantial coverage along the lines of WP:GNG, I'm not sure how helpful they would be in establishing notability otherwise. It may be a matter of giving actual examples of this coverage. JFHJr (㊟) 05:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

::*"surely someone wrote about it" is a bit of a wish. none of the books in google books have. can you WP:PROVEIT?-- The Red Pen of Doom 11:36, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Redirect per The Red Pen of Doom, until as such time we can prove she meets GNG. GiantSnowman 11:47, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
• Redirect I agree with the Red Pen of Doom. Since consensus seems to be that participating at an Olympic demo is not sufficient to show notability, there's nothing else that shows she meets any notability criteria for an individual article. The fact that taekwondodata.com only shows her with 1 fight (a loss at the Olympic demo) seems to indicate a lack of international competition experience. Papaursa (talk) 21:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
• Delete Utterly non-notable. If it weren't for WP:ATH being severely broken, there wouldn't even be debate on this. It's not possible to write a verifiable article on this person, since there's not published coverage beyond trivial listings. Gigs (talk) 20:21, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.