Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camp Ashraf 3 (MEK camp in Albania)

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:{{la|1=Camp Ashraf 3 (MEK camp in Albania)}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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This is another POV WP:COATRACK about the MEK moved directly from draft to the mainspace (there have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FMEK_troll_farm several recently]). The article is filled with POV-pushing and weasel words using sources like [https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/tech/iran-info-ops/index.html American Herald Tribune], [https://emerging-europe.com/news/albania-and-irans-dissident-mek-a-marriage-made-in-the-us/ Emerging Europe], etc. The notable aspects of the topic can already be found in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mojahedin_Organization_of_Iran main article] (where it's written with more neutrality). Alex-h (talk) 17:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: there is significant coverage in reliable sources such as The New York Times ([https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/16/world/europe/iran-mek-albania.html]) or Foreign Policy ([https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/albania-iran-cyberattack-mek-us-israel/]), and continued coverage in reliable sources (of varying depth) in ABC News ([https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/police-raid-iranian-opposition-camp-albania-seize-computers-100249411]), RFE/RL ([https://www.rferl.org/a/albania-iran-peoples-mujahedin-organization/32467998.html]), Associated Press ([https://apnews.com/article/albania-mek-iranian-opposition-police-raid-851dcb5fc32cd6bc60206e342eea7b16]), Al Jazeera ([https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/21/why-was-this-iran-dissident-group-raided-in-europe]), etc. Also the length of the main article, People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran, calls for split articles, which have been repeatedly proposed in the past. MarioGom (talk) 20:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
• Keep::The subject is supported by well-known reliable sources. In fact, the topic has been worked on independently in different years in reliable sources:

1. [https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17615065 An Iranian mystery: Just who are the MEK? (BBC 2012)]
2. [https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/mujahadeen-e-khalq-mek Mujahadeen-e-Khalq (MEK) (cfr 2014)]
3. [https://www.dw.com/fa-ir/%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A7%D8%B3%DA%A9%D8%A7%D9%86-%DB%B3-%D9%87%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%B9%D8%B6%D9%88-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF%DB%8C%D9%86-%D8%AE%D9%84%D9%82-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A2%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C احتمال اسکان ۳ هزار عضو مجاهدین خلق در آلبانی (DW 2016)]
4. [https://www.bbc.com/persian/iran/2016/09/160912_l44_albania_iraq_mujahedin از بغداد تا تیرانا: پایان سی سال حضور مجاهدین خلق در عراق (bbc 2016)]
5. [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/09/mek-iran-revolution-regime-trump-rajavi Terrorists, cultists – or champions of Iranian democracy? The wild wild story of the MEK (The Guardian 2018)]
6. [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-giuliani-idUSKBN1WU2OV Trump lawyer Giuliani defies House subpoena in impeachment inquiry (Reuters 2019)]
7. [https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/14/mek-ashraf-3-camp-albania-becomes-base-fight-iran/ MEK Ashraf-3 camp in Albania becomes base to fight Iran (Washington times 2019)]
8. [https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/2019-08-13/ty-article/.premium/white-house-once-labeled-them-terrorists-now-it-calls-them-irans-next-government/0000017f-dc2a-db5a-a57f-dc6a244b0000 The White House Once Labeled Them Terrorists. Now They're Being Called Iran's Next Government (Haaretz 2019)]
9. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190505091347/https://www.dw.com/fa-ir/iran/a-47567208 گزارش اختصاصی اشپیگل از کمپ مجاهدین خلق در آلبانی (DW 2019)]
10. [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/16/world/europe/iran-mek-albania.html "Highly Secretive Iranian Rebels Are Holed Up in Albania. They Gave Us a Tour (NYT 2020)]
11. [https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/albania-iran-cyberattack-mek-us-israel/ How Albania Ended Up in Iran’s Cyber Crosshairs (foreignpolicy 2020)]
12. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821757 "Albania severs diplomatic ties with Iran over cyber-attack (BBC 2022)]
13. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/terror-threat-cancels-iranian-dissident-summit-in-albania/ Terror threat forces cancelation of Iranian dissidents’ summit in Albania (times of israel 2022)]
14. [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/cities-with-the-largest-homeless-populations-in-the-u-s The 25 U.S. Cities With Largest Homeless Populations (usnews 2023)]
15. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/21/why-was-this-iran-dissident-group-raided-in-europe Why was this Iran dissident group raided in Europe? (Aljazeera 2023)]
16. [https://www.voanews.com/a/albanian-police-raid-iranian-dissidents-camp-/7145468.html albanian police raid iranian dissidents camp (voanews 2023)]
17. [https://www.foxnews.com/world/biden-admin-walks-tightrope-albanian-police-raid-iranian-dissidents-killed-one-injured-dozens Biden admin walks tightrope amid Albanian police raid on Iranian dissidents that killed one, injured dozens (Foxnews 2023)]
18. [https://www.foxnews.com/world/albanian-police-raid-iranian-opposition-camp-seize-150-computers Albanian police raid Iranian opposition camp, seize 150 computers (Foxnews 2023)]

The POV issue has been wrongly raised to delete the article. According to which Wikipedia rule is POV a reason to remove an article? This problem can be solved by editing the article and discussing it on the talk page.GharaDash (talk) 09:56, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Politics, Terrorism, Iran, and Albania. MarioGom (talk) 20:25, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: yes the camp exists and there are sources saying so, but that doesn't solve the issues in this nomination. All the historical information about the MEK is already provided in the MEK article. The only points that are notable about this camp is that it hosts the MEK and that there was a raid there recently, both of which are covered in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mojahedin_Organization_of_Iran main article] (and there is a separate article for [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Tirana_camp_raid the raid]). The POV WP:COATRACK problems here have not been addressed, and they're the main reason for the deletion nomination. This article also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Explanation wikivoices] from unreliable sources and from WP:CHERRYPICKING, violating several Wikipedia guidelines (WP:NOTADVOCACY WP:CFORK WP:NPOV WP:UNDUE WP:CHERRYPICK WP:POVPUSH WP:RS, and probably others too). Alex-h (talk) 12:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
• :Coverage about the camp started years before the raid. MarioGom (talk) 18:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
• ::For example, The Times (2021: [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peoples-mujahidin-mek-dissidents-seeking-regime-change-in-tehran-rch5w8knc]), Le Monde Diplomatique (2019: [https://lemondediplomatique.al/muxhahidinet-e-popullit-muslimanet-qe-udhehiqen-nga-grate/]), Associated Press (2022: [https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-iran-albania-tirana-de39227e538dabd5c84686b5846722eb]), Rudaw (2020: [https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iran/13032020]), BBC (2019: [https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50339928]). And there has been also significant coverage from Albanian media, such as Tirana Times (2018: [http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=137041], Politiko (2023/post-raid: [https://politiko.al/english/e-tjera/voa-kontrolle-hyrje-daljeve-te-eve-nga-kampi-ashraf-3-i486367][https://politiko.al/english/e-tjera/fare-dihet-per-financimin-e-mek-ne-shqiperi-i486020]) MarioGom (talk) 22:20, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
• Merge: whatever good content can be derived from reliable sources back to People's Mojahedin of Iran where a reviewed history is already provided. Hogo-2020 (talk) 09:11, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: The People's Mojahedin of Iran is already too long, so we need split articles like this, just as we needed Camp Ashraf and Camp Liberty.Ghazaalch (talk) 14:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

• Redirect to the main article. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox_or_means_of_promotion Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion], which is what this article is. Also all the sources in this page only provide "significant coverage" that the PMOI members reside in this camp, and that's it. That's a presumed notability (unlike Camp Ashraf and Camp Liberty, which are known for other things besides just housing the PMOI). ParadaJulio (talk) 17:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

:: This camp is also known for other things including being MEK troll farm.Ghazaalch (talk) 04:55, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

::: Your MEK troll farm articles were deleted for being unsuitable for Wikipedia. What else is the camp known for (besides just being a residence)? ParadaJulio (talk) 17:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

:::: Read The situation of members in the camp.Ghazaalch (talk) 05:39, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

:::::Publishing a different article with selective claims relating to the core article is not an acceptable solution to the content disagreements in the core article. ParadaJulio (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Keep, Merge or Redirect?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:23, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: According to WP:deletion, the debatable policies to delete the article can be any of WP:N, WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:NOT. The comments by user: Alex-h are not considering these topics. If there's any POV issues, the discussion should be conveyed to the article talk page (WP:ATD-T). Any way, the Tirana camp is notable for its suitable coverage by reliable sources. On the other hand, Camp Ashraf is also notable for its own reasons. It is not necessary that both pages be notable for the same reason. The coverage by reliable sources matters. Ali Ahwazi (talk) 08:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

::Notability is not WP:INHERENT and group residences are not notable on their own. The sources describe the People’s Mojahedin Organization of Iran as what is notable. {{tq|"Camp Ashraf is also notable for its own reasons."|}} Which would those reasons be? ParadaJulio (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect: to People’s Mojahedin Organization of Iran. WonderCanada (talk) 18:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
• :A proper merge to People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran is going to be virtually impossible ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=People%27s_Mojahedin_Organization_of_Iran&action=history&offset=&limit=500 see its history]). So only keep or redirect are realizable outcomes. MarioGom (talk) 22:07, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
• Keep People's Mojahedin of Iran is already too long and further the article passes WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.