Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christmas in the Park (San Jose) (2nd nomination)

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Christmas in the Park (San Jose)}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Christmas in the Park (San Jose)}})

Fails Wikipedia:Notability (events). Coverage is all local and WP:ROUTINE. User:Namiba 15:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Christianity, and California. User:Namiba 15:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep Silicon Valley has almost 2 million people and this is one of the most notable Winter events for children. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 16:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

::This is not a reason to have a Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not the Chamber of Commerce.--User:Namiba 12:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep Google News search (above, unmodified) shows multiple major press articles yearly, for sustained, independent, non-trivial RS coverage. Jclemens (talk) 08:37, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

::Most of the available sources fit within WP:ROUTINE "Planned coverage of scheduled events, especially when those involved in the event are also promoting it, is considered to be routine." A city newspaper covering an annual event is routine coverage. Can you show evidence that the coverage is non-trivial and non-routine?--User:Namiba 12:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

:::Sure: it's a seasonal event. Allow me to quote the rest of ROUTINE back to you: {{tq|Wedding announcements, sports scores, crime logs, and other items that tend to get an exemption from newsworthiness discussions should be considered routine. Routine events such as sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc. may be better covered as part of another article, if at all. Run-of-the-mill events—common, everyday, ordinary items that do not stand out—are probably not notable. This is especially true of the brief, often light and amusing (for example bear-in-a-tree or local-person-wins-award), stories that frequently appear in the back pages of newspapers or near the end of nightly news broadcasts ("And finally" stories).}} Now... how does an annual, seasonal, citywide event fall under ROUTINE? It doesn't, and you should really feel embarrassed for proposing that it did. If this entire AfD is predicated on your entirely misunderstanding what ROUTINE is and means, please just withdraw this now. Jclemens (talk) 08:30, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

::::Wow, what an unnecessarily hostile response. You ought to consider why you feel the need to be rude to strangers on Wikipedia. Every city in the United States has annual Christmas events. Unless you can show how this event somehow distinguishes itself (through sourcing) then it is you who should be embarrassed for your behavior.--User:Namiba 14:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

:::::You're 1) projecting and 2) misguided. Nothing hostile at all, just pointing out that you have failed to understand the relevant guideline. Now, the fact that you once again pretend that "Every city in the United States has annual Christmas events" is roughly equivalent to {{tq|Wedding announcements, sports scores, crime logs}} demonstrates that you haven't heard the message--which is that what you are trying to do damages the encyclopedia--not much, but still: deleting this would be a wrong outcome. Why is that? The fact that you didn't withdraw the AfD means one of several things might apply. If you really want me to be less than charitable, I can start throwing acronyms at you, but I'll make the request politely again: please withdraw this misguided AfD and stop wasting the community's time. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 16:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

::::RESPONSE

::::1. Yes, this is a hostile response. Please do not gaslight other users. Do not tell them "you should be embarrassed". Please be civil.

::::2. WP:NOTBURO. Don't cite policies as some sort of "proof", or else other people might cite stuff back at you like "While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policies without considering their principles."

::::3. Being an annual event where all the coverage is local press saying "hey, this thing is happening again this year" is pretty much the underlying principle of WP:ROUTINE. What is the exceptional quality that makes it stand out? The city I used to live has a Christmas Market every year[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-67379145 (1)]. That right there is independent coverage. Does it have a Wikipedia page all of its own? Gosh no. It's not notable, except perhaps as a line in a broader article about the city. Recurring annual events are not inherently notable unless they're the SuperBowl or otherwise widely reported. Hemmers (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. I see quite a lot of coverage in local but major news sources -- not just "Christmas in the park is happening again this year", but retrospectives like [https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-joses-christmas-in-the-park-tradition-endures-decades-later/ this one] or discussions like [https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/christmas-in-the-park-business-boost-downtown-san-jose/3395205/ this one] of its economic impact. There's also lots of travel guides by real publishers, like [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fun_with_the_Family_Northern_California/OGI8js5iqnMC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Christmas+in+the+Park%22+San+Jose&pg=PA121&printsec=frontcover this one], recommending it. And there was evidently some kind of kerfuffle about a Quetzalcoatl statue at the event that was significant enough to make it into a number of serious books like [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Christianity_and_Civil_Society/JnBOSbJpghsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Christmas+in+the+Park%22+San+Jose&pg=PA82&printsec=frontcover this one].— Moriwen (talk) 15:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

::Can you expand more on the Christianity and Civil Society source? The link you posted doesn't show whether it is a mention or significant coverage.--User:Namiba 17:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep as per the reliable sources identified by Moriwen that show a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 19:57, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
• Merge into Plaza de César Chávez. 3/5 cites are the official website. The remaining two are independent, but WP:ROUTINE press-release adjacent stuff. Most news articles from a quick search are PR-adjacent ("Christmas In The Park Aims To 'Spread Joy To All' This Holiday Season With Inaugural 'Accessible Sunday' Plans", "What Christmas in the Park has planned new for this season"). It's a short article which would be more usefully accommodated as a section in the main article about the Plaza. Pretty hard to see how this article could be expanded without becoming an excessively detailed WP:GUIDE/description or getting promotional.Hemmers (talk) 16:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.