Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Church of Siduri

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Siduri. Some merging may be done if reliably sourced. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:08, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

=[[Church of Siduri]]=

:{{la|Church of Siduri}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Church_of_Siduri Stats])

:({{Find sources|Church of Siduri}})

Fails WP:ORG. The church's webpage advertises the free book which is the 2nd source (and has been added to several articles as a source despite failing WP:SPS). Dougweller (talk) 13:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Merge or delete: I had also tried to establish notability of this organization and was unable to do so - the only sources seem to be primary (the organization's website, and a self-published ebook by a man trying to promote Sidurism). I had merged the content to Siduri, and would still not be opposed to a partial merger (although I probably put too much of the original content in). Failing that, the article should be deleted. LadyofShalott 13:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 13:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 13:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Merge: Over 40,000 websites mention the modern Siduri movement/book (SOURCE: I Googled "Teachings of Siduri"), plus Peter Dyr's book on Siduri "The Epic of Gilgamesh, the Teachings of Siduri and How Siduri's Ancient Advice Can Help Guide Us to a Happier Life" is currently a highly rated "Fiction Classics" Bestseller on Amazon.com (SOURCE: researchered book on Amazon's website - http://amzn.com/B00B5KFX06); seems popular enough to be mentioned on Wikipedia to me. My vote is for merge, I have re-introduced the original reference to the modern movement from a few months ago, which is at the end of the page on Siduri (see current version). I hope you, my esteemed editorial colleagues, consider this compromise acceptable.76.174.24.136 (talk) 16:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC) George Pyle
Of course, "Teachings of Siduri" is not the same as "Church of Siduri". This article is about the specific named organization. Also that a self-published book which is currently free on Amazon is ranking fairly high at the moment is not terribly concincing to this Kindle owner; a lot of us will download just about anything to check it out if/when it's free. LadyofShalott 02:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, very good points, although, just to clarify, the book is highly ranked on Amazon's "free book" list. There are incredible numbers of free books on Amazon, so for a book to reach Bestseller status in its category means it is being downloaded significantly more than all of those other free eBooks. Of course, we have no way of knowing how many people are actually reading what they download from Amazon, probably, as you allude to, it is only a small fraction, but the same ratio probably applies to all free eBooks. That the book is self-published does not immediately disqualify it from being mentioned on the Wikipedia page for Siduri. According to Wikipedia's policy for using self-published sources: "Self-published sources may not be used for any claims about living people, except for claims made by the author about himself (or herself)." In this case Peter Dyr is making a claim about himself, that he believes in and follows the teachings of Siduri. I was unable to find any published book on Siduri on any of the eBook sites I use (Amazon, Kobo, Sony and iBooks), in fact, tellingly, when I typed "Siduri" into the search box of every site Dyr's book always came up first. Perhaps I am missing something important, I am relatively new to Wikipedia editing and your expertise on this matter is much appreciated. Is there a specific reason why we can not include Dyr's self-published book on the page about Siduri, when the claims he is making are about himself, no other published book covers the material at hand and by all quantifiable measurements (that are publicly available) the book is relatively popular? 76.174.24.136 (talk) 04:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)George

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.