Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CraveOnline

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 00:26, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

=[[CraveOnline]]=

:{{la|CraveOnline}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/CraveOnline Stats])

:({{Find sources|CraveOnline}})

Page seems to exist as primarily advertising. Virtually all sources in the article are simply information about product aquisitions rather than noteable coverage. Jtrainor (talk) 11:29, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:As a side note, the page was created by a user who has virtually only edited this page, and has a duplication of the article as his userpage. Jtrainor (talk) 11:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - There are literally dozens of often popular websites out there. Even the already extensive list is incomplete. I'm personally well acquainted with: Something Awful (once a really, REALLY popular website and still might have the biggest forums on the Internet), ComingSoon, RPGamer, ShockTillYouDrop, Action Trip, N4G, Siliconera. The article should be rather renamed to Crave Online Media, and updated and rewritten more properly. --Niemti (talk) 13:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:48, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Keep and rename to CraveOnline Media, I could agree with some nominator's concerns about "being written like an advertisement", this is not a reason for deleting but for fixing/rewriting. Not only Craveonline has reliable coverage about it ([http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/87905/], [http://www.sys-con.com/node/1185521], [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/04/paidcontent/main4318311.shtml], [http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/84683/], [http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/836713/CraveOnline-acquires-anime-manga-social-network/], [http://www.socaltech.com/craveonline_hires_execs/s-0014375.html], [http://www.aolnews.com/2008/05/05/hockeysfuture-purchased-by-craveonline/], [http://chiefmarketer.com/Channels/online/0806-enews], [http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/video-game-cheater-files-lawsuit/article_36ca1261-24b0-5b61-bcdb-8000474c4553.html]), but also many of their articles/interviews were cited by other very important and highly reliable sources ([http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-05-29-terrybibby_N.htm], [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/991314011.html?dids=991314011:991314011&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Feb+21%2C+2006&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=Latest+in+iWear&pqatl=google], [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/kiefer-confirms-24-film-start-date-16101038.html], [http://lci.tf1.fr/cinema/news/alien-ridley-scott-demande-250-millions-de-dollars-pour-la-prequelle-6084391.html], [http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1650631/paranormal-activity-2-reviews-flooding.jhtml]). More, many of its websites appears to be independently notable (Something Awful, WrestleZone, Coming Soon, Sherdog, RPGamer). Cavarrone (talk) 08:21, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

::CraveOnline does not own somethingawful. It's owned only by Lowtax, the guy who runs it. CraveOnline's only association is having a link to it (and a lot of the other sites it claims as 'partners') on their website. It's just a content aggregator website with no real content of it's own. Jtrainor (talk) 10:05, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

::: Sorry, you are wrong. I read in the same websites "© 2012 All Rights Reserved. WrestleZone.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC.", "© 2012 All Rights Reserved. ComingSoon.net is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC." or "© 2010 All Rights Reserved. Sherdog.net is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC." Nor it is true that is just a content aggregator, otherwise you should explain why [http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-05-29-terrybibby_N.htm here] USA Today says ""...owner Mark Cuban says in an interview with CraveOnline.com...", [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/991314011.html?dids=991314011:991314011&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Feb+21%2C+2006&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=Latest+in+iWear&pqatl=google here] Chicago Tribune mentions that a limited-edition collector's poster of Sopranos is available for free in the website, [http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1650631/paranormal-activity-2-reviews-flooding.jhtml here] MTV quotes a film review by the website, [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/kiefer-confirms-24-film-start-date-16101038.html#ixzz27rOS6atR here] The Belfast Telegraph says "According to CraveOnline.com...the star said", [http://lci.tf1.fr/cinema/news/alien-ridley-scott-demande-250-millions-de-dollars-pour-la-prequelle-6084391.html here] TF1 quotes an interview of Ridley Scott with craveonline and so on. Cavarrone (talk) 12:18, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Self-correction: should be CraveOnline Media (not Crave Online Media). --Niemti (talk) 01:41, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Delete - 180+ hits, mostly press releases going back to at least [http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blinkx-extends-its-lead-in-searchable-video-footage-doubles-content-partner-list-55064162.html August 31, 2005]. Two years and 40 press releases after August 31, 2005, there's a mention in [http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-1659-sports-the-end-of-the-sports-gospel.html Athens News December 13, 2007]: "If that's not enough, I'm also doing humor writing for CraveOnline." 40 more press releases and one year later, there is [http://business.highbeam.com/5395/article-1G1-180028566/usa-crave-online-wrigley-5-video-contest Back Stage May 22, 2008]: "CraveOnline & Wrigley 5 Gum are seeking submissions for an online video contest." Then, CraveOnline is cited as the source for a Frozen Margarita recipe.[http://www.thehawkeye.com/column/Platkin-052708 Hawk Eye May 26, 2008]. Forty more press releases and another year, and CraveOnline is cited as one of about twenty references at the end of the article [http://www.questia.com/library/1P3-1740744381/oh-yeah-family-guy-as-magical-realism Journal of Film and Video July 1, 2009], citing: "Topel, Fred. "Interview: Family Guy Creator Seth MacFarlane." CraveOnline.com. Craveonline Media, 6 Oct. 2008. Web. 8 Oct. 2008." Another two years pass with more press releases, then the article "Web network boosts Complex Media" in [https://home.crainsnewyork.com/clickshare/authenticateUserSubscription.do?CSProduct=newyorkbusiness-web&CSAuthReq=1:473413925976941:AID|IDAID=20110102/SUB/301029998|ID=:2D81CD290AEC1939E1B52EB00F9CAD77&AID=20110102/SUB/301029998&title=Web%20network%20boos Crain's New York Business January 3, 2011] mentions, "Everybody is vying for the media buyers attention, said David Cohn, senior vice president of sales at CraveOnline, a young mens network owned by Evolve Media Corp." It's not until June 2011 - six years and about 140 press releases after the August 2005 first CraveOnline press release does the topic receive some coverage. In [http://dailymail.com/ap/ApTopStories/201106020303?page=1&build=cache Charleston Daily Mail June 2, 2011], the article notes that a boxing referee is suing CraveOnline for claiming that he fixed a championship boxing match. The article in [http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jeff-bridges-album-what-critics-223178 Hollywood Reporter August 15, 2011] quotes Iann Robinson of CraveOnline. [http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-289833992.html Folio May 1, 2012] notes in brief how CraveOnline senior vice president left CraveOnline to become the executive vice president, digital sales and marketing of Vibe Media. Then, CraveOnline is cited as the source for a Baileys Summer Chill Smoothie recipe in a July 12, 2012 news article.[http://www.dietdetective.com/columns/diet-detectives-summer-drink-recipes-2012.aspx] Last, [http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/entertainment/movies/its-alive-alive-172781701.html Winnipeg Free Press October 5, 2012] quotes Fred Topel, CraveOnline, "Boy, it's nice to have Tim Burton back... A beautiful movie... it will be quite threatening to some grown-ups, but those are the best kinds of kids movies." That's about it. There is not enough Wikipedia reliable source material independent of the CraveOnline topic for a stand alone article per WP:GNG. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:13, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 10:05, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Oppose and Keep - An article written like an advertisement is not reason enough to delete it. Corn cheese (talk) 00:41, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Delete. I have to agree with Uzma Gamal on this one. I think it falls short of the WP:GNG guideline, and WP:CORPDEPTH. All of the sources cited by Cavarrone above amount to routine coverage, described as follows under WP:CORPDEPTH: "brief announcements of mergers or sales of part of the business" and "simple statements that a product line is being sold, changed, or discontinued". I found some other stories on court cases, but I don't think this rises to the level of significant coverage. --Batard0 (talk) 07:29, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

:: I have not just posted business news but also some sources that show how several articles, inteviews and activities of the website were cited and included in articles by Chicago Tribune, Usa Today, Belfast Telegraph and so on, showing a "real world impact" of the website. Surely the argument about the lack of indepht coverage about the website in itself is correct, such as it is for a great majority of popular websites, but I still don't think that Wikipedia is bureaucracy and here there are other signs of notability that IMHO should be taken into account, including the point that Crave Online owns a great number of other websites that passes more clearly the notability bar and that already have an article on Wikipedia. Cavarrone (talk) 07:45, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SarahStierch (talk) 08:43, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Also only looking at ComingSoon.net, this single CraveOnline Media website (now a redirect to CraveOnline) is a leading source of information on the media in production, and as such has been cited in [https://www.google.pl/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=ComingSoon.net&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=wikipedia.org&as_occt=any&safe=off&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights= more than 5,500] Wikipedia articles (probably many more, not all are marked). --Niemti (talk) 09:51, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Oppose – Publisher seems to own some well established brands such as ComingSoon.net. Betty Logan (talk) 08:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.